DeSantis signs bill requiring FL students, professors to register political views with state

[Metaphor]

https://www.documentcloud.org/docum...eedom-and-viewpoint-diversity-employee-survey

Not quite anonymous is it? And assuming they know what university a batch of surveys are coming from, answers to select questions can be compared to actual staff demographics to determine the truthfulness of the answers.

I’m sure people who parse these surveys out for a living can determine much much more.

I work for the public service and every year I am 'encouraged' to fill out the State of the Service employee survey (by 'encouraged' I mean the boss pressures her deputies to pressure their divisional heads to pressure their branch managers to pressure their directors to pressure their staff to fill it out).

I am given assurance of anonymity but it is, of course, an honour system. Since I get a personalised URL to start the survey, if they actually wanted to unmask a response they could easily (technically speaking) breach our trust and do so.

So if that is an objection, then it is an objection to nearly all staff surveys.

 

[Metaphor]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

Worse, some universities don't even understand what a pronoun is, leading to the gem 'use my name as a pronoun'.

https://www.american.edu/ocl/chosen-name.cfm

How Do I Designate My Pronouns and Gender Identity?​

Pronouns and gender identity can also be designated in the same self-service portal of Eagle Service as a chosen name. There will be a list of pronoun options and gender identities to choose from. However, if you do not use pronouns, you are welcome to select having your chosen first name be your pronouns.


Pronoun options in Eagle Service:

• She/her/hers
• They/them/theirs
• He/him/his
• E/Ey/EM/Eir/Eirs
• Xe/xem/xyrs
• Ze-zie/hir/hirs
• Hy/Hym/Hys
• Use my name as a pronoun

 

[Metaphor]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

 

[zorq]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

 

[laughing dog]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

 

[Metaphor]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Toni was talking about academia and then claimed that there was the 'full political spectrum' in it and that the left in American is fairly conservative by world standards. In fact, I often hear this claim (the American left is 'centre right',) but I only ever hear it from left wing Americans. In fact, I am quite stunned that Americans believe their political anchor is towards the right compared to all the countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the other Americas.

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

Of course there is no mention of it, because the idea is deeply crazy.*

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

 

[Metaphor]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

I linked to an example, which you have snipped without acknowledgment.

 

[laughing dog]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

I linked to an example, which you have snipped without acknowledgment.

An anecdote or an example is not evidence that such questions are usual or general practice.

I have colleagues in many institutions of higher learning. We converse regularly and none report any such sort of intrusively specific questions. As I alluded to in my response, I asked my question because my non-random sample may not representative or indicative.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

It's a competence thing Governor DeSantis. You wouldn't understand.

 

[Metaphor]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

I linked to an example, which you have snipped without acknowledgment.

An anecdote or an example is not evidence that such questions are usual or general practice.

I have colleagues in many institutions of higher learning. We converse regularly and none report any such sort of intrusively specific questions. As I alluded to in my response, I asked my question because my non-random sample may not representative or indicative.

I made a statement: that there was already precedent that universities in America ask such intrusive questions of their own staff and students. They do. I can provide more examples, if you are interested, but no number of examples, as you say, can answer a general claim that I did not make (that it was typical or universal of universities to do so.)

 

[Toni]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Toni was talking about academia and then claimed that there was the 'full political spectrum' in it and that the left in American is fairly conservative by world standards. In fact, I often hear this claim (the American left is 'centre right',) but I only ever hear it from left wing Americans. In fact, I am quite stunned that Americans believe their political anchor is towards the right compared to all the countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the other Americas.

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

Of course there is no mention of it, because the idea is deeply crazy.*

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

I’m 100% certain that not only am I more familiar with US academia but I also know a lot more American academics than you do.

I am aware of zero cities in the US who have abolished police departments.

As far as I am aware, neither AOC nor any if the squad are academics.

In US academia today there are faculty who are very far right, right, center right, center, left of center, left and full on Marxist. Do you think that academics at Brigham Young are leftist? Or those at Notre Dame? Just to name a couple from the top of my head.

Ffs, someone in my husband’s department was a libertarian!

Most Americans do have the prejudice of when they think of Europe, mostly think of England, France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. I’m speaking in very broad terms here. Of course they know of Romania, the former Soviet Block, etc. but tend to think of them as ‘Eastern Europe.’ Not Europe Europe.

 

[Ford]

Desantis was very clear in the statement quoted above. He feels that students simply aren't being exposed to enough conservative content or opinions, and that this law is meant to prevent opinions HE finds offensive.

The law is meant to do no such thing. Nowhere does it 'ban' the expression of a particular viewpoint. In fact, it specifically says universities should not attempt to 'shield' students.

The right wing does not want a diversity of opinions.

Neither does the left. What's your point?

How - exactly - do universities "shield" students? Is there a policy you can point to where a public university of school in the state of Florida "shields" students from conservative viewpoints?

Because the entire law is premised on the notion that schools are too far "left" and must be forced by the state to balance those alleged views.

Feel free to link directly to one of these policies. I'll wait.

 

[laughing dog]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

I linked to an example, which you have snipped without acknowledgment.

An anecdote or an example is not evidence that such questions are usual or general practice.

I have colleagues in many institutions of higher learning. We converse regularly and none report any such sort of intrusively specific questions. As I alluded to in my response, I asked my question because my non-random sample may not representative or indicative.

I made a statement: that there was already precedent that universities in America ask such intrusive questions of their own staff and students.

So why would the objection be a joke just because someone somewhere has already done it?

If you read closely, "They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity." In my experience, it is highly unusual for state institutions of higher education to ask questions about the religion of respondents at all, let alone with unusual specificity.

BTW - the phrase "Universities in America" does not normally suggest a mere existence (someone somewhere does it) but that it is more general.

 

[zorq]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Toni was talking about academia and then claimed that there was the 'full political spectrum' in it and that the left in American is fairly conservative by world standards. In fact, I often hear this claim (the American left is 'centre right',) but I only ever hear it from left wing Americans. In fact, I am quite stunned that Americans believe their political anchor is towards the right compared to all the countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the other Americas.

You'll also hear it from political scholars, but it is usually used in juxtaposition to developed countries throughout the world that HAVE a "left" option, not just "the world."

Here's a thought, American progressives would like a bill that looks like "Medicaid for all." Democrats have control of both legislative houses and the presidency right now. Why isn't there a "medicaid for all" bill trying to move through the red tape, right now? I'll tell you why, because as left as the Democrats are, they aren't nearly left enough compared to European leftists. I mean, they might fail, but they aren't even trying! This is legislation that plenty of Europeans, and Canada have proven to work for decades now, but the American left isn't even trying. Just how left do you imagine American leftists to be?

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

Of course there is no mention of it, because the idea is deeply crazy.*

So... evidence doesn't support your statement, and you have no evidence to the contrary, so you conclude that you weren't wrong, it is that there is some sort of vast conspiracy consisting of literally tens of millions of people who secretly want to abolish all of the police and prisons but are afraid that if they say it out loud they will be called "crazy."

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

Hmmm, you admit that the Democrat "base" would think that this is "deeply nuts" but you also insist that "the left" secretly wants to do it.

As has been pointed out, the Democrats are "the left" and if the Democrat "base" is against it, then guess what, "the left" is against it. You are so twisted by propaganda you literally can't think straight. Thanks for refuting yourself for me in such a timely manner.

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

You don't even seem to understand what advocates of "defund the police" even mean.

 

[Toni]

To be fair, defund the police is the dumbest slogan ever.

 

[Metaphor]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Toni was talking about academia and then claimed that there was the 'full political spectrum' in it and that the left in American is fairly conservative by world standards. In fact, I often hear this claim (the American left is 'centre right',) but I only ever hear it from left wing Americans. In fact, I am quite stunned that Americans believe their political anchor is towards the right compared to all the countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the other Americas.

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

Of course there is no mention of it, because the idea is deeply crazy.*

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

I’m 100% certain that not only am I more familiar with US academia but I also know a lot more American academics than you do.

Thank you for your predictable claim of epistemological privilege.

I am aware of zero cities in the US who have abolished police departments.

Why are you responding to a claim I never made?

As we were told by the American left repeatedly, 'defunding the police' does not necessarily mean abolishing the police (though some, in fact, did and do advocate abolition).

As far as I am aware, neither AOC nor any if the squad are academics.

I did not claim they were.

In US academia today there are faculty who are very far right, right, center right, center, left of center, left and full on Marxist. Do you think that academics at Brigham Young are leftist? Or those at Notre Dame? Just to name a couple from the top of my head.

I believe academics span the political spectrum, though I doubt your opinion on what is 'very far right'. But I also believe your statement is misleading: the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia.

Ffs, someone in my husband’s department was a libertarian!

How very far right! Do you believe libertarianism is a right wing ideology?

Do you believe that the left is overrepresented in American academia, or, if not over-represented (compared to the American population), a far bigger presence than the right in American academia?

Most Americans do have the prejudice of when they think of Europe, mostly think of England, France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria and Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. I’m speaking in very broad terms here. Of course they know of Romania, the former Soviet Block, etc. but tend to think of them as ‘Eastern Europe.’ Not Europe Europe.

I reckon that you are right, though some would include some selected Southern European countries like Italy.

The point, however, is that 'the American left is conservative by world standards' is, to put it unkindly, a bullshit statement. It might not be bullshit if 'the world' meant northern Europe, but it's complete bullshit when the world actually means the world, including where most of the world lives.

Ask citizens in Iran, in Poland, in Libya, in China, in India, in Hungary, if America is 'conservative'.

 

[Metaphor]

Is that left leaning or ‘left leaning?’ I realize that my personal acquaintance with university professors is hardly sufficient sample size, even for my state, but my observation is that there exists a full political spectrum across academia. Also, and the non-American members here can confirm: what is ‘left’ fir Americans is fairly conservative by most of the rest of the world’s standards.

Really? You think police and prison abolitionists are 'fairly conservative'?

You know, when you deliberately misconstrue things they tend to become ridiculous quite quickly. This is why you garner so little respect around here.

Toni was talking about academia and then claimed that there was the 'full political spectrum' in it and that the left in American is fairly conservative by world standards. In fact, I often hear this claim (the American left is 'centre right',) but I only ever hear it from left wing Americans. In fact, I am quite stunned that Americans believe their political anchor is towards the right compared to all the countries in Europe, Africa, Asia, and the other Americas.

You'll also hear it from political scholars, but it is usually used in juxtaposition to developed countries throughout the world that HAVE a "left" option, not just "the world."

Here's a thought, American progressives would like a bill that looks like "Medicaid for all." Democrats have control of both legislative houses and the presidency right now. Why isn't there a "medicaid for all" bill trying to move through the red tape, right now?

Because you can't force the States to participate? Or is the American left just very incompetent?

I'll tell you why, because as left as the Democrats are, they aren't nearly left enough compared to European leftists. I mean, they might fail, but they aren't even trying! This is legislation that plenty of Europeans, and Canada have proven to work for decades now, but the American left isn't even trying. Just how left do you imagine American leftists to be?

I don't need to imagine the policies of American leftists. They have no trouble telling the world their policies, like reparations to the descendants of slaves, or vaccine priority for favoured ethnic groups, or speech codes that unperson somebody for 'misgendering'.

Democrats are considered to be "left" in the US. They are the only "left" option in 90% of political contests in the US. And yet, ... There is no mention of "police and prison abolition" on the published Democratic party platform.

Democrats will reinvigorate community policing approaches, so officers on the beat better serve the neighborhoods they work in, and make smart investments to incentivize departments to build effective partnerships with social workers and mental health and substance use counselors to help respond to public health challenges.

Of course there is no mention of it, because the idea is deeply crazy.*

So... evidence doesn't support your statement,

What statement do you believe I made? The statement was that the American left, especially academia, supported radical left notions like defunding the police. I did not say 'the national Democrat party has an official platform of defunding the police', which would be a ludicrous platform for more than one reason, but mainly because the police are local, not national.

and you have no evidence to the contrary, so you conclude that you weren't wrong, it is that there is some sort of vast conspiracy consisting of literally tens of millions of people who secretly want to abolish all of the police and prisons but are afraid that if they say it out loud they will be called "crazy."

Conspiracy. What? What 'conspiracy'? Activists and academics openly telling people America needs to defund the police or abolish prisons isn't a 'conspiracy'. They are stating their beliefs flat out. They publish their beliefs in the media.

"Conspiracy"???

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

Hmmm, you admit that the Democrat "base" would think that this is "deeply nuts" but you also insist that "the left" secretly wants to do it.

Not normal leftists, but the far left, certainly.

As has been pointed out, the Democrats are "the left" and if the Democrat "base" is against it, then guess what, "the left" is against it.

Yes, normal leftists are against far left policies, and normal right wingers are against far right policies. What's your point? That being against radical far left policies makes you not a leftist?

You are so twisted by propaganda you literally can't think straight. Thanks for refuting yourself for me in such a timely manner.

You are so twisted by prejudice you attribute to me statements I did not make, and believe I believe things I do not believe or even implied I believe.

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

You don't even seem to understand what advocates of "defund the police" even mean.

I know exactly what they mean, because they told me.

Some meant abolish police. Others meant reduce funding to the police and use that funding for other state-employed workers to replace some police functions. Now, no city, not even Portland, was crazy left enough to use the abolish option, but some American cities really did defund the police and their citizens paid the price.

 

[Metaphor]

Florida campus surveys under scrutiny in lawsuit. ‘A political tool.’

Officials who drafted the questionnaire wanted to ask more pointed political questions, documents show.

www.tampabay.com

They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity.

Now that objection has got to be a joke. Universities in America already ask the gender identity and sexual orientation of students with 'unusual specificity'.

You appear to speak with great authority about universities in America. Do you have any evidence that is usual or general practice for universities in America to ask respondents to state their gender identity and sexual orientation with unusual specifity? I ask, because none of my colleagues around the USA seem to know of any, but then again, maybe they are as clueless as I am about such things.

I linked to an example, which you have snipped without acknowledgment.

An anecdote or an example is not evidence that such questions are usual or general practice.

I have colleagues in many institutions of higher learning. We converse regularly and none report any such sort of intrusively specific questions. As I alluded to in my response, I asked my question because my non-random sample may not representative or indicative.

I made a statement: that there was already precedent that universities in America ask such intrusive questions of their own staff and students.

So why would the objection be a joke just because someone somewhere has already done it?

If someone objects to it based on its 'intrusiveness', then surely they ought object to it on the same grounds when universities ask it of their own students and staff.

If you read closely, "They also proposed asking respondents to state their gender identity, sexual orientation and religion with unusual specificity." In my experience, it is highly unusual for state institutions of higher education to ask questions about the religion of respondents at all, let alone with unusual specificity.

I stand corrected, I didn't read what you said properly; I don't know that American universities ask about a student's religion the way they ask about gender identity and sexual orientation.

BTW - the phrase "Universities in America" does not normally suggest a mere existence (someone somewhere does it) but that it is more general.

I did mean, as I explained, that it was not unprecedented. And I'm certain that some of the people objecting to the sexual orientation and gender identity questions are people who attend universities that already ask these questions. I am also confident that universities in America (and all over the Anglosphere) do ask these gender identity questions. I am studying a postgraduate diploma right now and I was given a drop-down box of options (including type-in) to describe my 'gender'.

I am also being asked to complete a 'consent matters' course, which I find tedious, because I already know how to not rape people.

 

[Toni]

From your post #86

*Of course, some cities completely under Democrat control did, in fact, defund the police, to disastrous results.

YOur post 96:

As far as I am aware, neither AOC nor any if the squad are academics.

I did not claim they were.

And yet you decided to mix AOC in with academia for some reason?
Your post:

That doesn't mean American academics don't mention it, and advocate for it, and the left in the Democrat party (like AOC and the Squad) don't acknowledge it and juggle appeasing this far left faction with not appearing deeply nuts to their base.

You again:

I believe academics span the political spectrum, though I doubt your opinion on what is 'very far right'. But I also believe your statement is misleading: the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia.

I understand that the sentiment is quite popular in right wing rags but in my experience, it's simply false. Within any of the coursework I took at any of 3 different universities, only one, a sociology course, was even minorly political adjacent. No profs expressed any 'left leaning' ideology in any classroom that I was in. One was quite matter of fact about his conservative Christianity and frankly, the only profs I can think of who talked about their political beliefs outside of class were conservatives. Socially, I know a fair number of academics from a number of different disciplines and there is a broad political spectrum represented, even in my state which is more Democrat than Republican.

How very far right! Do you believe libertarianism is a right wing ideology?

Do you believe that the left is overrepresented in American academia, or, if not over-represented (compared to the American population), a far bigger presence than the right in American academia?

Yes, I think that libertarians are right wing. No, I don't believe that 'the left' is over represented in American academia. Most of my coursework was in sciences and there was zero political leanings in the teachings, nor in any of my other coursework in French, English Lit/Drama, sociology, economics, or psychology. I wasn't interested in political science and I never took any courses in the subject. I'm fairly certain political theory is discussed in these classes but I'm also pretty certain that no one is indoctrinating students into any particular political leaning in those classes. I do know that a number of academics I know have mentioned that they were seeing more conservative students compared with days gone by.

I reckon that you are right, though some would include some selected Southern European countries like Italy.

I mentioned Italy. I should have mentioned Greece but Italy is a more common destination for American travelers.

The point, however, is that 'the American left is conservative by world standards' is, to put it unkindly, a bullshit statement. It might not be bullshit if 'the world' meant northern Europe, but it's complete bullshit when the world actually means the world, including where most of the world lives.

Ask citizens in Iran, in Poland, in Libya, in China, in India, in Hungary, if America is 'conservative'.

I gave you my personal reference point: for much of northern and western Europe as well as Italy, the US is definitely not considered leftist. I would include Canada, Mexico and much of South and Central America and a lot of Africa and the Middle East in that assessment.

I am aware of Chinese, Libyan, Indian, Pakistani, and Hungarian political leanings. I mean, we're left of Kim Jong-un, and current India and Pakistani politics.

Right here on this board, by your fellow countrymen, I've been assured that America's left is hardly left at all. I get the point: If one examines the policies and policy proposals by say, Eisenhower or Nixon, we're positively right of center.

 

[zorq]

Metaphor, You insisted that the American left supports police and prison abolition. Not the American "far left." You were talking about "The Left." That is the "the Left" that Toni was talking about too. You are wrong. Thank you for admitting it, if not in so many words. But you are wrong.

Just as wrong as I would be if I insisted that "American right wingers want black slavery legalized again."... well, not quite as wrong as that, but it's in the same ballpark.