Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

[Toni]

You, for one. You seem absolutely just fine with what the 30 year old did and what he's doing now.

I'm calling bullshit.

I'm certain that nowhere have I said that what Barnes did was "absolutely just fine".

[removed]
Tom

Of course you are.

You don’t like being called out on your words that you write about a 16 year old rape victim. Maybe actually reading them and having them attributed to you makes you uncomfortable because you see how judgmental and hypocritical you are with regards to a 16 year old girl vs a 30 year old man.

I have no idea what goes through your head when you write what you do. But I’m sure that’s not your fault either

Once again, I'm calling bullshit.

Nowhere have I ever said that what Barnes did was "absolutely just fine".

Tom

Tom, I’m sorry you seem to have difficulty understanding what I’ve written.

I hope you feel better soon.

 

[ZiprHead]

Tom reminded me of this that I've posted before.

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"

A friend posted a link to this article on Facebook. Even though it is from almost 20 years ago, I thought it important to share. www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/... "THE ONLY MORAL ABORTION IS MY ABORTION" When the Anti-Choice Choose ...

www.dailykos.com

 

[TomC]

Or that Toni thinks there is nothing contradictory about thinking is "absolutely just fine" and "irresponsible".

What I said was

It was irresponsible, at the very least.
Maybe worse.

how did that got confused with "absolutely just fine"?

given your denials of the blatant meaning of your own posts,

Could you be more specific? Like post a quote from something I posted?
Tom

 

[Toni]

[removed]

Because I have posted multiple times, in this thread, that what Barnes did was not OK. It was irresponsible, at the very least.
Maybe worse.

Her changing that to "absolutely just fine" isn't just a little mistaken.
Tom

Please link to any time you said what Narnrs did was not ok.

 

[Toni]

Or that Toni thinks there is nothing contradictory about thinking is "absolutely just fine" and "irresponsible".

What I said was

It was irresponsible, at the very least.
Maybe worse.

how did that got confused with "absolutely just fine"?

given your denials of the blatant meaning of your own posts,

Could you be more specific? Like post a quote from something I posted?
Tom

Why? You refused to take responsibility when I quoted your posts to you.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Clearly there are multiple injustices in this case. But if this woman now owes child support doesn't this guy owe lots of back child support?

I agree.

Furthermore, could it also be allowed this guy being guilty of the statutory rape... yet still be awarded custody since the child actually wants to live with him? Aren't the views of the child always supposed to be above everything else on the judgement?

Assuming the aforementioned, current child support from the woman does not seem so incredible anymore.

It's unreasonable to expect a rape victim (and this looks like it probably wasn't just statutory rape) to pay child support, period.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

Huh?? I thought those allegations were old stuff about the mother, not new stuff about the daughter!

 

[IIDB Staff]

Can we please have less bickering and accusations of lying, misquoting etc? Please be civil!

 

[laughing dog]

Or that Toni thinks there is n

Or that Toni thinks there is nothing contradictory about thinking is "absolutely just fine" and "irresponsible".

What I said was

It was irresponsible, at the very least.
Maybe worse.

how did that got confused with "absolutely just fine"?

given your denials of the blatant meaning of your own posts,

Could you be more specific? Like post a quote from something I posted?
Tom

Posts #200 and #250 in this thread give examples. I am sorry, but it is abundantly clear to me that frequently your posts do not come close to reflecting what you say that you actually mean.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

Huh?? I thought those allegations were old stuff about the mother, not new stuff about the daughter!

It's both. Medical examination evidence is relevant to the daughter and more recent. The mother's criminal complaint to police was years ago and got buried. TomC made an unsupported and irrational claim the daughter wanted to be with the father, among other irrational claims and now RVonse is repeating this narrative in his questions.

 

[Rhea]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

Huh?? I thought those allegations were old stuff about the mother, not new stuff about the daughter!

It's both. Medical examination evidence is relevant to the daughter and more recent. The mother's criminal complaint to police was years ago and got buried. TomC made an unsupported and irrational claim the daughter wanted to be with the father, among other irrational claims and now RVonse is repeating this narrative in his questions.

So here is what is so tragic and infuriating to me.

THIS WAS POSTED CLEARLY, EARLIER.

But some people are so strong in their pre-judged conclusion that they CAN’T EVEN LISTEN TO THE VICTIM when the victim tries to tell their story.


This, “what? They never said that!” WHEN THEY DID SAY THAT is exactly what victims of abuse face when they go to the police. the victim TOLD YOU they were raped - and you could’t even hear it. You let the words of the victim wash right past you and listened only to the complaints of the man.


It’s fucking infuriating. In part becuase it never comes with, “oh, SHIT! She told me, and I let her down, I never listened.” No it comes with more victim blaming, “huh I thought..” Well, you thought wrong. How about now you say, “oh shit, that’s ON ME that I didn’t know - I need to examin how I could have possibly NOT KNOWN this when it was clearly told to me. How did I read that and NOT KNOW what it said? How could I have possibly MISSED what was clearly told to me? How could I have LET HER DOWN by not hearing her story when she spoke?”

But it never comes with that. It’s always this passive avoidance of the personal responsibility for actually LISTENING TO VICTIMS when they talk.

 

[Emily Lake]

What I said was

It was irresponsible, at the very least.
Maybe worse.

Have you considered that maybe... just maybe... many of us see that the very worst thing you've said about the 30 year old man who raped a 16 year old girl is that he was "irresponsible"... while simultaneously criticizing the 16 year old girl who got raped for all of the things she did wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

Huh?? I thought those allegations were old stuff about the mother, not new stuff about the daughter!

Nope. There is evidence that the daughter was sexually assaulted. It is alleged that her father is responsible for it.

 

[Jarhyn]

What proof have you found that she lied bout her age?

I did not say she in particular did (although she might have - no way to know 16 years later one way or the other).
I was talking generally that this is an aspect of these laws that I find particularly egregious - they do not allow the other party lying about her age as a defense.

I have it on good authority that while young men may not be able to tell if a girl is under age by looking at her, they are pretty easily able to tell if they talk to her.

Because a 16 year old acts so much dumber than an 18 year old?

Wow. Just when I thought (certain) men couldn’t be any biggest assholes, I’m proven wrong, all over again.

Apologies, I should have said immature instead of dumb.

Because a 16 year old IS so much more immature, and yes dumb, than themselves as an 18 year old, and neither of them is quite as dumb as a 19 year old. Between 12 and 21, abandon all hope at non-compartmental intelligence, the hormone monster rules those years.

It's a fundamental law of nature

 

[Toni]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

I find it highly unlikely that a 16 year old actually wants to go live with a parent who won't let them have a cell phone.

Or who raped her.

 

[ZiprHead]

Battle to get custody of girl in high-profile rape case ends with no resolution after 15 hours

A custody battle that has garnered international attention is playing out in a southeast Louisiana courtroom

www.wbrz.com

AMITE – A custody battle that has garnered international attention played out in a southeast Louisiana courtroom for 15 hours Friday, ending without a decision just yet.

That decision should come next week, according to an attorney for Crysta Abelseth.

On Friday, John Barnes sought to regain custody of his 15-year-old daughter. That child was the product of a rape. It’s a story the WBRZ Investigative Unit broke last month.

Barnes and his attorney had nothing to say as they walked into the Tangipahoa Parish courthouse.

But he had plenty to say when he was called to testify, blaming Abelseth, the girl’s mother, because he thought she was a college student when they had sex.

The next morning, the delirium wore off when he learned she was still in high school.

Barnes was held in contempt Friday and ordered to pay Abelseth’s attorney fees for not allowing her to talk to her daughter.

Jarrett Ambeau, Abelseth’s lawyer, said outside the courthouse that the girl “100 percent” wants to live with her mother.

“She 100 percent hates her father, and that will come out. She will say that from the stand. This is a man who insults her. He calls her names,” Ambeau said.

 

[Rhea]

I am so angry that the court is letting that man keep control over the 16yo. (At first I wrote “his daughter,” but in what moral universe is she “his”?) That poor girl. At least she should be removed to a guardian. This is so damaging. So wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“She 100 percent hates her father, and that will come out. She will say that from the stand. This is a man who insults her. He calls her names,” Ambeau said.

Not a single hint at accused assault?

 

[ZiprHead]

Judge says accused rapist cannot contact girl he fathered, places child with guardians

A judge ruled Friday that a Ponchatoula man accused of fathering a child in a 2005 rape cannot have any contact with the girl at all, even though he previously

www.theadvocate.com

A judge ruled Friday that a Ponchatoula man accused of fathering a child in a 2005 rape cannot have any contact with the girl at all, even though he previously had custody. Instead, she will be placed in the full custody of guardians previously agreed upon by her father and mother.

Tangipahoa Parish District Judge Jeff Cashe, who heard from both parents, the girl and an array of other witnesses in a 14-hour hearing two weeks ago, said the girl's mother will be allowed, at a minimum, one weekend of visitation each month.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The mother must be in some bad shape to be restricted as such. The father must be in much worse shape to be restricted more than the mother.

The judge looking at even worse shape for himself and his job with his massive reversal? Went from full custody and support from the mother to zero custody.