Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

[TomC]

Well yeah, but just to be clear, he committed an act of rape where as she was drinking illegally.

To be clear, he picked up a chick in a bar with a minimum age of 21. Both were drinking.

He should have checked her ID. But nobody else did. I've picked up fuck buddies in bars before. Never occurred to me to pull an ID check on someone who's got a beer in their hand.

Although, young stuff never held much attraction to me. I always wanted them experienced. Way better sex, IMHO. Age was never an issue, for me.
Tom

 

[TomC]

That is a lot of words to just say "hypocrite".

Feel free to explain what you mean by the word "hypocrite" in that sentence.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well yeah, but just to be clear, he committed an act of rape where as she was drinking illegally.

To be clear, he picked up a chick in a bar with a minimum age of 21.

At a bar and grill.

Both were drinking.

He should have checked her ID. But nobody else did. I've picked up fuck buddies in bars before. Never occurred to me to pull an ID check on someone who's got a beer in their hand.

So, just to confirm again, he raped her, she was drinking illegally. We know both of these things. What we don't know is if she was "just" statutorily raped or sexually assaulted. She had the baby despite the "irresponsible sex" and you still call her scum.

We also seem to know that her daughter was sexually assaulted and it is alleged (I believe by the school counselor) to be the father who assaulted her. Maybe she was drinking too... and she is scum.

 

[Toni]

So much judgement and contempt in your posts. I'm glad that you are apparently able to live a life of perfectly chaste purity where you never make mistakes, but you forget that making mistakes is part of being human.

What makes you think I've lived a life of perfectly chaste purity? Or think I have?

Trust me.
No.
Quite the opposite.

I was quite the slut, back in the day. Oh my...

Now I'm in my 60s. Not that interested in sex really. Perhaps I wore it out in my 20-60 y/o period. But my opinions aren't based on my purity. They're based on long experience and seeing how different attitudes and lifestyles turn out, usually, over time.
Tom

That is a lot of words to just say "hypocrite".

I don’t think it is hypocritical to recognize that doing stupid stuff often leads to stupid outcomes, in general or being based upon doing stupid stuff yourself when you were young or younger than you were five seconds ago.

1. There is no time limit on doing stupid stuff.

2. It may be stupid or foolish or unwise se for a 16 year old to go to a bar and even stupider to accept a ride home with anyone other than your own parent but being stupid is not something that you deserve to be rap d for. Nothing you do at 16 or any age makes you deserve to be raped.

And ffs, as far as I know, no one here knows the place she went when she was 16. It might have been the slimiest honky to keep in that part of town. It might have been an Applebees. It might have been the American Legion or K of C and she might have been there looking to fetch her daddy home.

All we know for sure is that there are some pretty lousy people who think that it is just fine for 30 year olds to offer to drive 16 year olds home and then to take them back to the 30 year old’s place and rape them and to sue fir child support when you hear the victim is filing charges.

Fuck that noise

 

[Arctish]

since the child actually wants to live with him?

People keep making this claim, and I have seen no evidence of this. What I have seen are allegations from a school counselor that the daughter claimed her father had physically and mentally abused her, allegations that the daughter claimed her father had raped her - with the medical examiner confirming that she had injuries consistent with being raped.

I find it highly unlikely that the 16 year old daughter who is alleging such abuse from her father actually wants to go live with him.

I find it highly unlikely that a 16 year old actually wants to go live with a parent who won't let them have a cell phone.

 

[Toni]

That is a lot of words to just say "hypocrite".

Feel free to explain what you mean by the word "hypocrite" in that sentence.
Tom

I was quite the slut, back in the day. Oh my...

Now I'm in my 60s. Not that interested in sex really. Perhaps I wore it out in my 20-60 y/o period. But my opinions aren't based on my purity. They're based on long experience and seeing how different attitudes and lifestyles turn out, usually, over time

But nobody else did. I've picked up fuck buddies in bars before. Never occurred to me to pull an ID check on someone who's got a beer in their hand.

 

[TomC]

All we know for sure is that there are some pretty lousy people who think that it is just fine for 30 year olds to offer to drive 16 year olds home and then to take them back to the 30 year old’s place and rape them and to sue fir child support when you hear the victim is filing charges.

Probably so.
But I don't know of any.

Who are you referring to here?
Tom

 

[TomC]

That is a lot of words to just say "hypocrite".

Feel free to explain what you mean by the word "hypocrite" in that sentence.
Tom

I was quite the slut, back in the day. Oh my...

Now I'm in my 60s. Not that interested in sex really. Perhaps I wore it out in my 20-60 y/o period. But my opinions aren't based on my purity. They're based on long experience and seeing how different attitudes and lifestyles turn out, usually, over time

But nobody else did. I've picked up fuck buddies in bars before. Never occurred to me to pull an ID check on someone who's got a beer in their hand.

Did you have an opinion? Something to say?

Or not, as usual. You just want to diss me without a point regarding anything I said.
Tom

 

[atrib]

So much judgement and contempt in your posts. I'm glad that you are apparently able to live a life of perfectly chaste purity where you never make mistakes, but you forget that making mistakes is part of being human.

What makes you think I've lived a life of perfectly chaste purity? Or think I have?

Trust me.
No.
Quite the opposite.

I was quite the slut, back in the day. Oh my...

Now I'm in my 60s. Not that interested in sex really. Perhaps I wore it out in my 20-60 y/o period. But my opinions aren't based on my purity. They're based on long experience and seeing how different attitudes and lifestyles turn out, usually, over time.
Tom

So you are a scumbag and a hypocrite, based on your own words.

You didn't answer my questions about why the 16 year old should be considered a scumbag. I didn't think you would because you are all about deflection and ad hom attacks.

 

[Toni]

That is a lot of words to just say "hypocrite".

Feel free to explain what you mean by the word "hypocrite" in that sentence.
Tom

I was quite the slut, back in the day. Oh my...

Now I'm in my 60s. Not that interested in sex really. Perhaps I wore it out in my 20-60 y/o period. But my opinions aren't based on my purity. They're based on long experience and seeing how different attitudes and lifestyles turn out, usually, over time

But nobody else did. I've picked up fuck buddies in bars before. Never occurred to me to pull an ID check on someone who's got a beer in their hand.

Did you have an opinion? Something to say?

Or not, as usual. You just want to diss me without a point regarding anything I said.
Tom

I directly quoted your posts, in response to another post asking for Jimmy to explain what a hypocrite is.

I honestly didn’t think it was difficult to understand.

 

[TomC]

So you are a scumbag and a hypocrite, based on your own words.

Slut, yes. Back in the day.
I've said that more than once, here on IIDB.
Scumbag, not so much. The one time I made a baby I did the best I could.

Hypocrite, not at all. That's just another of your ad hominems.

You didn't answer my questions about why the 16 year old should be considered a scumbag. I didn't think you would because you are all about deflection and ad hom attacks.

She lied often and well enough to get served alcohol, where the minimum age was 21. She left a bar with a dude for sex. She didn't tell the father of the child he had a baby.

The premise that Abelseth was an innocent victim strikes me as implausible. Not impossible, but highly implausible.

Let me ask you this.
Where were Abelseth's parents while she was out buying drinks in a bar, 5 years underage? Why didn't she at least tell the father of her daughter about the child before the kid was born? Why was a bartender serving drinks to a 16y/o? Why did a family court award custody of a 16y/o to the father, and fine the mother?


Why are so many posters in this thread convinced that Abelseth's version of this story is all that needs to be known?

Tom

 

[Toni]

All we know for sure is that there are some pretty lousy people who think that it is just fine for 30 year olds to offer to drive 16 year olds home and then to take them back to the 30 year old’s place and rape them and to sue fir child support when you hear the victim is filing charges.

Probably so.
But I don't know of any.

Who are you referring to here?
Tom

You, for one. You seem absolutely just fine with what the 30 year old did and what he's doing now.

Unless you'd like to say that none of your posts actually meant what it appears to us that they meant.

 

[Toni]

So you are a scumbag and a hypocrite, based on your own words.

Slut, yes. Back in the day.
I've said that more than once, here on IIDB.
Scumbag, not so much. The one time I made a baby I did the best I could.

Hypocrite, not at all. That's just another of your ad hominems.

You didn't answer my questions about why the 16 year old should be considered a scumbag. I didn't think you would because you are all about deflection and ad hom attacks.

She lied often and well enough to get served alcohol, where the minimum age was 21. She left a bar with a dude for sex. She didn't tell the father of the child he had a baby.

The premise that Abelseth was an innocent victim strikes me as implausible. Not impossible, but highly implausible.

Let me ask you this.
Where were Abelseth's parents while she was out buying drinks in a bar, 5 years underage? Why didn't she at least tell the father of her daughter about the child before the kid was born? Why was a bartender serving drinks to a 16y/o? Why did a family court award custody of a 16y/o to the father, and fine the mother?


Why are so many posters in this thread convinced that Abelseth's version of this story is all that needs to be known?

Tom

You do not know that she lied even once, much less 'often enough to get served alcohol where the minimum age was 21.' For all you know, she ordered a coke while looking around for her dad and the guy spiked her drink. For all you know the guy switched drinks with her.

You certainly do not know that she left with a 30 year old in order to have sex with him, although we can reasonably discern that that's why he said he'd give her a ride home. Of course, he lied to her and then took her to his place and raped her. At the very least, it was statutory rape. It was likely that it was forcible rape as well.

We don't know where her parents were. It is as likely as anything else that she was looking for one of them or both of them. We don't know what kind of establishment it was where she meant her rapist. We don't know how well, if at all, they knew each other before that night. We don't know.

Very few rape victims ever, ever, ever want the slightest bit of contact with their rapist afterwards, much less to let them know that they are about to become a father.

I'm absolutely convinced that no one here knows enough to make any informed opinion about what happened that night or since. But enough charges and allegations, with medical evidence to back them up, have been made against the man that it begins to be hard to believe anything he says in his defense.

 

[Emily Lake]

Exactly where did I say anything like this?

I get a bit tired of "I didn't say that" because you didn't use exactly those words in exactly that order, despite the fact that the sentiment is the same.

Abelseth was drinking in a bar? How did that happen?
She left with some guy. A guy who failed to check her ID.
Seriously?

I'm not condoning any of this whatsoever. Not underage drinking. Not taking a drunk chick home for sleazy sex. Not having a baby at that age. None of it.

But also not the pretense that she's an innocent victim of a predator.

Too short for what?
To say "No, I don't want to go anywhere with you."?
To run away?
...
This situation clearly resulted from multiple bad choices by various people. Unsurprisingly, alcohol was involved. And it started 16 years ago, I don't trust anybody's memory all that long.

Especially not when they have an agenda.

You know who I really feel sorry for?

The child caught in the shit storm. She had no say in anything, but she can't escape her parents dumbassery either.

I feel bad for her because she's been living in this mess her whole life.

It would be great if scumbags, like her parents, didn't put kids through this crazy crap.
Tom

I didn't refer to the mother in particular as a scumbag.

I pointed out the scumbag behavior of the parents, she's just one of them. Both got drunk in a bar and had irresponsible sex that led to a kid growing up with them as parents.
Poor thing.
Tom

Especially when contrasted with someone alleging bad behavior on the part of the man who at bare minimum statutorily raped a 16 year old.

You know who else has a lot of pull in small town courts? People who have contracts with the local police department.

Yet another unsupported allegation of trashiness.
Tom

The most judgemental thing you have to say about the man is that he had irresponsible sex and has been part of a contentious custody battle. You get your hackles up when someone points out his ties with the local police department - which have been reported in multiple outlets as being one of his clients. You accused one of the articles of straight out lying about the whole thing. You put a fair bit into defending this man you don't know, and about which you know nothing.

On the other hand... you're completely glossing over the fact that no matter how you cut it this was statutory rape on his part - a fucking 30 year old man who had sex with a 16 year old. And you place "equal" blame on her... except it's not equal - you point out HER shortcomings repeatedly - SHE got drunk, SHE didn't say no to a ride home, SHE didn't run away, SHE has an agenda, SHE is a dumbass parent and a scumbag parent.

Your "equality" is to say that they both got drunk and had irresponsible sex. A 30 year old grown ass man who is alleged to have raped an intoxicated minor... is being cast as "equally" responsible for the pregnancy because they "both" made bad "decisions".

Fuck that.

It is 100% the responsibility of the ADULT to not have sex with MINORS.

 

[Emily Lake]

You said worse by calling her a scumbag.

I believe I was referring to both of them.
It's been awhile and I don't really care much anymore.

But the fact remains, @Emily Lake was misrepresenting me and my opinions. That was my point.

No, I really don't believe I'm misrepresenting you. You've consistently focused on what SHE did wrong, and how SHE is at fault (for getting raped by a man 14 fucking years older than her, I might add), and how SHE has an agenda and SHE didn't say no or run away.

The most you have to say for him (apart from defending him against accusations of "trashiness") is that he "had irresponsible sex".

Tom, I really think you ought to go back through this thread and read your contributions to it objectively. Give some though to how much arguing you're doing, and who you're casting aspersions at, and who you're defending.

It's hard to carry on a conversation when people like you and "her" misrepresent what I post.
Tom

Why the scare quotes around her? Are you confused about my sex?

 

[Emily Lake]

In my opinion two people who get drunk together in a bar and then go have irresponsible sex are pretty scummy.

What are you basing this baseless assumption on? None of the articles suggest that either of them was drunk. None of them suggest that the two were at the restaurant/bar together. And all of the articles include her alleging that he raped her, not "had irresponsible sex".

The concrete fact that we do have is that a 30 year old full grown fucking adult had sex with a 16 year old girl, which makes it statutory rape - at the very, very minimum.

This is not "two people got drunk and were irresponsible so now they have a baby". This is a full grown man raped a minor and ejaculated irresponsibly into the girl he was raping and she had a baby... that he's now trying to take away from her.

AND his daughter alleges that he raped her too!

Why are you putting so much effort into making sure SHE gets tarnished as much as the fucking rapist?

 

[Emily Lake]

To be clear, he picked up a chick in a bar with a minimum age of 21. Both were drinking.

Again - based on WHAT EXACTLY? Provide your sources to substantiate your claim.

 

[Emily Lake]

All we know for sure is that there are some pretty lousy people who think that it is just fine for 30 year olds to offer to drive 16 year olds home and then to take them back to the 30 year old’s place and rape them and to sue fir child support when you hear the victim is filing charges.

Probably so.
But I don't know of any.

Who are you referring to here?
Tom

You. YOU keep trying to force a narrative of this being a completely and totally consensual slut-fuck from a couple of people who were both raging drunk... and you implied that they were at a bar "together" as if they intentionally both got hammered with the intent to sex it up. YOU keep reframing this as if it's a perfectly okay situation in which the man did NOT commit any kind of rape at all.

YOU seem to think that a fucking 30 year old man offering a ride to a minor and then raping her is perfectly okay.

 

[TomC]

Why the scare quotes around her? Are you confused about my sex?

Your self labelling "agenderist" isn't particularly clear.

I edited out the quote marks because I'm pretty sure that the staff will have a problem with them. I've gotten in trouble for such things before.
Tom

Tom

 

[Emily Lake]

She lied often and well enough to get served alcohol, where the minimum age was 21. She left a bar with a dude for sex.

This is rank speculation on your part.