Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[bilby]

Of course. If a SFPD officer defecates on the streets of San Francisco, Chesa's successor should charge him too.

"La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain". - Anatole France

 

[bilby]

Fag end? Homophobic much?

Not even slightly.

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fag-end.html

 

[Derec]

"La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain". - Anatole France

Well cops aren't exactly riche, and thugs are usually not exactly pauvre. Plus, with SNAP and abundance of food banks and the like, nobody needs to steal a loaf of bread. The is not Les Misérables. Try Gucci bags and $200 Nikes instead. Or jewelry.
3 suspects target jewelry store at West Covina mall in latest smash-and-grab, police say

 

[bilby]

"La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues et de voler du pain". - Anatole France

Well cops aren't exactly riche, and thugs are usually not exactly pauvre. Plus, with SNAP and abundance of food banks and the like, nobody needs to steal a loaf of bread. Try Gucci bags and $200 Nikes instead. Or jewelry.
3 suspects target jewelry store at West Covina mall in latest smash-and-grab, police say

Can you keep your own posts in mind for just a few fucking minutes?

Your snipping of context suggests that you can, but choose not to.

The context, in case you "forgot" was:

Of course. If a SFPD officer defecates on the streets of San Francisco, Chesa's successor should charge him too.

People are shitting in the streets because they have nowhere else to shit. They are homeless, and public toilets aren't available free of charge. Their "crime" is to be poor. Your snarky comments about completely unrelated crimes is a massive red herring; This is the topic YOU broached - people shitting in the streets - and your attempt to hide from your callous disregard for them by talking about the theft of expensive tat is ridiculously transparent.

Why do they need food banks or SNAP anyway? If they have no bread, Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

 

[Derec]

Can you keep your own posts in mind for just a few fucking minutes?
Your snipping of context suggests that you can, but choose not to.

Quote snipping is necessary or else you end up with a wall of quotes. Like what happened when we first switched to this software and people could not deal with the interface.
I any case, I did not forget. But your (pro-crime quote btw. Fuck Anatole France!) quote directly referred to theft.

People are shitting in the streets because they have nowhere else to shit. They are homeless, and public toilets aren't available free of charge. Their "crime" is to be poor.

Mind you, my snarky remark was offered to lpetrich, who asked "If cops do those things, are they also guilty of crimes?" So yes, if cops do those crimes, including defecating in the streets, they should be charged. I just picked the most ridiculous of the crimes listed in the post lpetrich was replying to to mention by name.

Your snarky comments about completely unrelated crimes is a massive red herring; This is the topic YOU broached - people shitting in the streets - and your attempt to hide from your callous disregard for them by talking about the theft of expensive tat is ridiculously transparent.

I did not broach it. It was from a post that the post I was replying to replied to. YOU broached the subject of stealing.

Why do they need food banks or SNAP anyway? If they have no bread, Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

Ah too good for plain bread, are they? Insisting on brioche! Some picky homeless they must have in SF.

And yes, this whole reply is 90% snark.
It's a silly subject. It's not ok to let homeless shit in the street. It reduces the quality of life for everybody else. And it's not like SF does not have homeless shelters already.

 

[Hermit]

I am not saying that S&F made a big difference to NYC's crime rates.

So , what were you saying here?

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

Your big source for this claim is a student project for some class. A poorly formatted one at that.

Will you be splitting hairs now by arguing there's a difference worth mentioning between "next to no effect" and "[not] a big difference"?

No matter. You keep casting aspersions at the accuracy of the charts because of politicisation, race sensitivity and leftist skew. Just provide links to more accurate ones already. This is the third time I ask you to do that. Put up or shut up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This trend was seen nationally, and there is no consensus as to exactly why it happened. And it gets exhausting having to say this over and over.

Yes, I have seen some interesting hypotheses, from removal of lead from the environment to aborted fetuses more likely to be future offenders.
That said, since there is a national trend, any discussion of city policies needs to filter out that signal. And compare different cities trying different policies at the same time. It would be interested to see a politically disinterested and methodologically rigorous study on that subject.

It certainly would. However, and it apparently needs to be said again, murder rates were dropping sharping before Giuliani became mayor and the rates continued dropping around the same rate. The trend was seen nationally, urban and rural, so it feels like it was much more an environmental thing than a legal thing.

So, ultimately, your claim that it wouldn't be hard to prevent these gang deaths appears to be just bluster

I think everybody who think the problem is an easy one to solve is naïve.

Did you tell Oleg that? He says it wouldn't be hard.

At the same time, it is pretty obvious that going easy on gang-affiliated crime - like practiced by the likes of Gascon - is certainly the wrong way. What message is sent by giving a light sentence to a gang murderer?

Could you please provide the stats regarding Gascon's record on prosecution of criminal offenders in gangs? Referencing a single case is cherry picking.

 

[Gospel]

Edit: nvm Derail.

 

[Worldtraveller]

You'll get a Presidential Medal of Honor for heading into the Chicago PD (or Baltimore or NYC) and provide and implement the plan that prevents gang shootings.

NYC - Guillani and Bloomberg era. You may not like it, but it was.

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

statistics show that there is apparently no relationship between crime and stop-and-frisk: data collected shows that property crime and violent crime in New York both consistently fell over time, despite the fact that the number of stops both increased and decreased during the same time period. This lack of correlation may suggest that stop-and-frisks as a police tactic may be a waste of time and resources.

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong, simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

And yet, ya'll keep replying....

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You'll get a Presidential Medal of Honor for heading into the Chicago PD (or Baltimore or NYC) and provide and implement the plan that prevents gang shootings.

NYC - Guillani and Bloomberg era. You may not like it, but it was.

Was not. Stop-and-frisk had next to no effect on crime rates in New York.

statistics show that there is apparently no relationship between crime and stop-and-frisk: data collected shows that property crime and violent crime in New York both consistently fell over time, despite the fact that the number of stops both increased and decreased during the same time period. This lack of correlation may suggest that stop-and-frisks as a police tactic may be a waste of time and resources.

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong, simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

And yet, ya'll keep replying....

Touché!

Granted, he is still new, so final evaluations are underway.

 

[Elixir]

Well, no hypocrisy here, then.

No.

Poor Derec. Cannot engage, just shows up to try to overwhelm a thread with fifteen or twenty posts full of specious RW crap.
Doesn’t realize that his hyperbolic crap is just hyperbolic crap, even though he goes into full pearl clutching mode when someone else uses hyperbole to illustrate the folly of his Police State wet dream.

 

[Hermit]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong,

Yes

simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

No

 

[Oleg]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong,

Yes

simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

No

Good grief. Did you miss the earlier post regarding "broken windows"? Here's how Giuliani described what they were doing to affect the dramatic crime drop:

"Last year, we launched a major initiative designed to remove drugs from our streets, playgrounds and neighborhoods," the Mayor continued. "The results have been astonishing. We have been able to reduce crime to record levels. The murder rate is at a three-decade low -- in several precincts this year there have been no murders. The men and women of the Police Department are committed to driving drugs out of our communities and their commitment will result in even further historic reductions."

"Today's statistics are a reflection of every officer's dedication to reducing crime and returning our City's neighborhoods to all New Yorkers," said Police Commissioner Howard Safir. "Relentless, strategic policing, applying business principles to crime reduction, having information available to us on a daily basis, and particularly the implementation of nine anti-drug initiatives have all contributed to this significant reduction. By closely tracking crime trends, we know where crime is taking place and we can immediately redeploy our resources."

Press Release Archives #310-98 - Mayor Giuliani Reports Crime in New York City to Fall

www.nyc.gov

It's so simple. If you disincentivize crime, you get less of it. If you tolerate crime, you get more of it.

 

[Oleg]

Regarding "stop and frisk," the NYPD was doing that in the 1990s but didn't record the stops. So the graph above is misleading.

Cops had stopped, questioned, and frisked thousands of New Yorkers during Bratton’s run in the mid-’90s. But the numbers were not rigorously compiled, and they were not included on the CompStat menu. “We’d always avoided making stops a part of CompStat,” Bratton says. “That type of activity didn’t have a place in CompStat. It was encouraging the precinct commanders to feel that they wanted more numbers.”

Mike Farrell, who began his career under Bratton and rose to become a deputy commissioner under Kelly, scoffs at Bratton’s account as revisionist history. “It had nothing to do with a strategic choice,” he says. “Those numbers simply weren’t collected.” A lawsuit growing out of the fatal 1999 shooting of Amadou Diallo, however, forced the department to start keeping accurate count of stops, with the process kicking in during the first years of the Bloomberg administration. “The rationale to incorporate the stops statistics into CompStat,” Farrell says, “was, ‘What are all of the indicators that reflect enforcement activity in the command?’”

The Controversial Crime-Fighting Program That Changed Big-City Policing Forever

 

[laughing dog]

How young does a gang murderer have to be before they should not be tried as adult?

As I said, it should be a well-considered discretion based on the circumstances of the case. California law allows youths of 14 to be charged as adults, and I definitely think some of them should be.

That is evasive. You argued that having a cutoff encourages gangs to use younger children to commit heinous crimes to avoid adult sentences. According to your logic, if society wishes to avoid that incentive, there should be no cutoff.

So, I ask again, in your opinion how young does a gang member have to be before they are not tried as an adult? Given your persistence reference to California law, one might infer 13 years old. But that would allow 13 year old murders who are gang members to receive juvenile sentences.

 

[Hermit]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong,

Yes

simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

No

Good grief. Did you miss the earlier post regarding "broken windows"?

No. I just prefer actual facts to metaphor.

Here's how Giuliani described what they were doing to affect the dramatic crime drop: [snip]

The statistics do not bear Giuliani's assertion out. The crime drop was almost imperceptible. It also was dwarfed by the crime drop in the years preceding the stop to frisk failure.

In case you missed it, here is the chart illustrating the failure again:

 

[Oleg]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong,

Yes

simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

No

Good grief. Did you miss the earlier post regarding "broken windows"?

No. I just prefer actual facts to metaphor.

Here's how Giuliani described what they were doing to affect the dramatic crime drop: [snip]

The statistics do not bear Giuliani's assertion out. The crime drop was almost imperceptible. It also was dwarfed by the crime drop in the years preceding the stop to frisk failure.

In case you missed it, here is the chart illustrating the failure again:

Again, "stop and frisk" was done in the 1990s but they didn't collect the stats. See earlier post. That graph lies by omission. And it's really the Bill Braton strategy that Giuliani endorsed which resulted in reduction of crime. Also, "broken windows" and "stop and frisk" are separate policies.

 

[atrib]

Democrats want to deprive you of that and place you in the way of harm by those same criminals who should be waxing your Lambo.

Waxing his 2-stage articulated bus with independent rear wheel steering, not his lambo. Way cooler than any Italian trash.

Our articulated buses are German; The ones with the rear wheel steering are Swedish rigid buses.

None of them are exactly sporty. I was going up the hill on Creek Road yesterday at 25kph, with the gas pedal flat on the floor. It's a 70 limit, so I wasn't popular with the following traffic.

There's a species of tropical fish in Panama that has an alimentary canal just 100mm in total length; Even so, it's not as gutless as a MAN A24 CNG articulated bus.

Are you sure you were in the right gear? Maybe you need to add a supercharger or a pair of turbos with 3-inch catless piping all the way to the muffler. It would make your day more fun.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wait. Are you saying Oleg was wrong,

Yes

simply blowing smoke up our collective ass?

No

Good grief. Did you miss the earlier post regarding "broken windows"?

No. I just prefer actual facts to metaphor.

Here's how Giuliani described what they were doing to affect the dramatic crime drop: [snip]

The statistics do not bear Giuliani's assertion out. The crime drop was almost imperceptible. It also was dwarfed by the crime drop in the years preceding the stop to frisk failure.

In case you missed it, here is the chart illustrating the failure again:

Again, "stop and frisk" was done in the 1990s but they didn't collect the stats. See earlier post. That graph lies by omission. And it's really the Bill Braton strategy that Giuliani endorsed which resulted in reduction of crime. Also, "broken windows" and "stop and frisk" are separate policies.

And in LA, where Giuliani wasn't Mayor, we see Homicides peak in '93 and drop as well.

And here it is for the entire US, where Giuliani wasn't President. Figure 45 shows it broken down by city v small city v suburb v rural. Figure 47 has shows that this decrease realigned murder rates in cities with more than 1,000,000 with that of smaller cities.

 

[Patooka]

What about #BLM and other left wing rioters?

What about them? You've alleged several times that police, well known in the US for their long history of tolerance towards left wing groups, treat BLMers differently than the people on Jan 6. Any definitive proof of that?

And yes, the Jan6 people should be treated differently but baby steps first. I'd like to know if you can show receipts that rioters in 2020 were charged and prosecuted differently than Jan6ers first.