Nordstream sabotage

[Loren Pechtel]

Daily Kos has a longish article arguing that poor maintenance combined with a longish period of disuse created methane hydrate blockages. A less than careful attempt to get rid of them (presumably by the Russians) might have ruptured the pipeline.

That makes sense.

 

[TSwizzle]

So, the neo-cons devised this mean strategy into baiting Russia into invading Ukraine. And they did this knowing that Ukraine and the western world would rally to defeat Russian imperialism, against incredible odds; and that this would lead to Putins downfall.

This is how realpolitik works.

Well, I'll tell you what, if the neocons are really behind this, we should appoint them leaders for life. Because this has worked brilliantly well!

It's not a case of any and every outcome is plotted and executed. It's just the way post WWII politics is in Europe regarding Russia, Balkans, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Turkey whatever. There is a constant pressure of some kind to have them behave in a way that is beneficial to the EU. The pressure on Russia to bring down the iron curtain didn't just happen because Russia thought better of it.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So, the neo-cons devised this mean strategy into baiting Russia into invading Ukraine. And they did this knowing that Ukraine and the western world would rally to defeat Russian imperialism, against incredible odds; and that this would lead to Putins downfall.

This is how realpolitik works.

Well, I'll tell you what, if the neocons are really behind this, we should appoint them leaders for life. Because this has worked brilliantly well!

It's not a case of any and every outcome is plotted and executed. It's just the way post WWII politics is in Europe regarding Russia, Balkans, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Turkey whatever. There is a constant pressure of some kind to have them behave in a way that is beneficial to the EU. The pressure on Russia to bring down the iron curtain didn't just happen because Russia thought better of it.

What you are really trying to say is that Russia wants an economic sphere of influence with Eastern Europe. Fine. I don't blame them. Here's my advice: quite bombing the shit out of people in sovereign countries! Quit bullying them. Offer them a better future than what the EU offers. The people in eastern Europe are just like you and I: they want a better way of life. Is it really a Suprise that they are wanting the western way of life? Blaming the west for Russia's imperialism is like blaming the happy couple next door to the wife being abused by her husband.

 

[TSwizzle]

Blaming the west for Russia's imperialism {snip}

Eh? I'm not blaming the west for Russia's imperialism. Russia has been seen as a threat since WWII and has always had pressure on it to behave. Whether it be exclusions from the Olympics, economic sanctions or thinly veiled threats to allow its neighbors into NATO, arming the Taliban in Afghanistan, arming the Ukraine or whatever, it's all political games.

 

[Jayjay]

Daily Kos has a longish article arguing that poor maintenance combined with a longish period of disuse created methane hydrate blockages. A less than careful attempt to get rid of them (presumably by the Russians) might have ruptured the pipeline.

That makes sense.

That doesn't explain why there would be three ruptured pipes, two in NS1 and one pipe in NS2 which is much newer. One could be an accident, three explosions almost at the same time is not.

 

[ZiprHead]

Daily Kos has a longish article arguing that poor maintenance combined with a longish period of disuse created methane hydrate blockages. A less than careful attempt to get rid of them (presumably by the Russians) might have ruptured the pipeline.

That makes sense.

Sweden investigated and said the breaches came from an outside source, not internal.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Blaming the west for Russia's imperialism {snip}

Eh? I'm not blaming the west for Russia's imperialism. Russia has been seen as a threat since WWII and has always had pressure on it to behave. Whether it be exclusions from the Olympics, economic sanctions or thinly veiled threats to allow its neighbors into NATO, arming the Taliban in Afghanistan, arming the Ukraine or whatever, it's all political games.

Well, I will say that US politicians have mostly been very antagonist towards Russia. US politician after US politician has assumed the worst in Russia: that they were expansionist, would attack its neighbors unprovoked, would steal and kill foreign citizens, and would ever consider nuclear war to get its way. Dang, wish that they hadn't been so right...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So, the neo-cons devised this mean strategy into baiting Russia into invading Ukraine. And they did this knowing that Ukraine and the western world would rally to defeat Russian imperialism, against incredible odds; and that this would lead to Putins downfall.

This is how realpolitik works.

Well, I'll tell you what, if the neocons are really behind this, we should appoint them leaders for life. Because this has worked brilliantly well!

It's not a case of any and every outcome is plotted and executed. It's just the way post WWII politics is in Europe regarding Russia, Balkans, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Turkey whatever. There is a constant pressure of some kind to have them behave in a way that is beneficial to the EU. The pressure on Russia to bring down the iron curtain didn't just happen because Russia thought better of it.

What you are really trying to say is that Russia wants an economic sphere of influence with Eastern Europe. Fine. I don't blame them. Here's my advice: quite bombing the shit out of people in sovereign countries! Quit bullying them. Offer them a better future than what the EU offers. The people in eastern Europe are just like you and I: they want a better way of life. Is it really a Suprise that they are wanting the western way of life? Blaming the west for Russia's imperialism is like blaming the happy couple next door to the wife being abused by her husband.

There are people who are threatened by parity, who do not want others to succeed, who's vision of the future is to dictate, conquer and control because that's the only security they can imagine. I suppose they don't know anything else.

People say Putin is very smart. I think, as your post implies, that's he's as dumb and lazy as they come. Maybe he's a bit clever, maybe he's ruthless. But if he's so smart why does he have to rely on terror and censorship to maintain control. He's smart like a bank robber, if he really was smart enough he wouldn't need to rob banks.

 

[TSwizzle]

Well, I will say that US politicians have mostly been very antagonist towards Russia. US politician after US politician has assumed the worst in Russia: that they were expansionist, would attack its neighbors unprovoked, would steal and kill foreign citizens, and would ever consider nuclear war to get its way. Dang, wish that they hadn't been so right...

A weird response to me, did I say they (US politicians) were wrong about Russia?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Daily Kos has a longish article arguing that poor maintenance combined with a longish period of disuse created methane hydrate blockages. A less than careful attempt to get rid of them (presumably by the Russians) might have ruptured the pipeline.

That makes sense.

That doesn't explain why there would be three ruptured pipes, two in NS1 and one pipe in NS2 which is much newer. One could be an accident, three explosions almost at the same time is not.

If they were trying to do the same thing in both pipes you could have the same failure in both pipes. However, if the cause is external that rules out a maintenance fuck-up.

 

[ZiprHead]

Officials believe pro-Ukraine group may have sabotaged Nord Stream – reports

Kremlin dismisses tentative intelligence from European and US agencies as a bid by the perpetrators to divert attention

www.theguardian.com

European and US intelligence officials have obtained tentative intelligence to suggest a pro-Ukrainian saboteur group may have been behind the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipelines last year, according to reports in the New York Times and German newspaper Die Zeit.

German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit.


The information has been shared between European intelligence agencies in an effort to establish more information about those who carried out the undersea bombings in September, an attack that had left western governments perplexed.

Details about the intelligence remain sketchy and it is unclear what confidence the US intelligence community places in the theory, as well as who may have organised, funded and directed such a daring attack on the gas pipelines running between Russia and Germany. But it is suggested that the government of Kyiv did not direct the underwater strike.

 

[Jayjay]

Officials believe pro-Ukraine group may have sabotaged Nord Stream – reports

Kremlin dismisses tentative intelligence from European and US agencies as a bid by the perpetrators to divert attention

www.theguardian.com

European and US intelligence officials have obtained tentative intelligence to suggest a pro-Ukrainian saboteur group may have been behind the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipelines last year, according to reports in the New York Times and German newspaper Die Zeit.

German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit.


The information has been shared between European intelligence agencies in an effort to establish more information about those who carried out the undersea bombings in September, an attack that had left western governments perplexed.

Details about the intelligence remain sketchy and it is unclear what confidence the US intelligence community places in the theory, as well as who may have organised, funded and directed such a daring attack on the gas pipelines running between Russia and Germany. But it is suggested that the government of Kyiv did not direct the underwater strike.

Sketchy as it is, it's still the most plausible theory so far. I place zero weight on Russian MoD's claim that it was the UK, or Seymour Hersh's tall tale about it being US and Norway, but Ukrainian saboteurs seem a reasonable scenario at least.

Another alternative is that Russia used Ukrainian operatives to frame them. But the lack of such narrative coming from Russia seems to be against this hypothesis.

Interesting to see how this develops.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Officials believe pro-Ukraine group may have sabotaged Nord Stream – reports

Kremlin dismisses tentative intelligence from European and US agencies as a bid by the perpetrators to divert attention

www.theguardian.com

European and US intelligence officials have obtained tentative intelligence to suggest a pro-Ukrainian saboteur group may have been behind the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipelines last year, according to reports in the New York Times and German newspaper Die Zeit.

German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit.


The information has been shared between European intelligence agencies in an effort to establish more information about those who carried out the undersea bombings in September, an attack that had left western governments perplexed.

Details about the intelligence remain sketchy and it is unclear what confidence the US intelligence community places in the theory, as well as who may have organised, funded and directed such a daring attack on the gas pipelines running between Russia and Germany. But it is suggested that the government of Kyiv did not direct the underwater strike.

I don't know about this story. There's a hell of a lot of detail for there not being any names, grainy video of faces, or even nationality for that matter. Hell's bells, *I'm pro-Ukrainian. It's like this story was put out just to fuck with the Russians in that they narrowed it down to just about anyone.



*But if you seen me swim, you'd rule me out.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Officials believe pro-Ukraine group may have sabotaged Nord Stream – reports

Kremlin dismisses tentative intelligence from European and US agencies as a bid by the perpetrators to divert attention

www.theguardian.com

European and US intelligence officials have obtained tentative intelligence to suggest a pro-Ukrainian saboteur group may have been behind the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipelines last year, according to reports in the New York Times and German newspaper Die Zeit.

German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit.


The information has been shared between European intelligence agencies in an effort to establish more information about those who carried out the undersea bombings in September, an attack that had left western governments perplexed.

Details about the intelligence remain sketchy and it is unclear what confidence the US intelligence community places in the theory, as well as who may have organised, funded and directed such a daring attack on the gas pipelines running between Russia and Germany. But it is suggested that the government of Kyiv did not direct the underwater strike.

I don't know about this story. There's a hell of a lot of detail for there not being any names, grainy video of faces, or even nationality for that matter. Hell's bells, *I'm pro-Ukrainian. It's like this story was put out just to fuck with the Russians in that they narrowed it down to just about anyone.



*But if you seen me swim, you'd rule me out.

An interesting detail is that this explosion was in Swedish territorial waters and it was Sweden that detected the explosions. But they haven't cooperated with any other nations to share their data. Their justification is, because by doing so it would reveal the extent to Swedish detection capabilities. Something the Swedish military was not ok with. Worth noting is that the Swedish military has been catastrophically underfunded for half a century now. They have ample reasons to hide, just how shit, the Swedish military is and it's surveilance capabilities.

So the only party who sits on the data refuses to share it. And nobody trusts anyone.

That said, if the sabotage was carried out by the Ukraine, I'm cool with that. This is a war about the control of gas deposits under Ukraine. As such I think attacking Russias power infrastructure, to make this war as expensive as possible for Russia, is a legitimate target.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Officials believe pro-Ukraine group may have sabotaged Nord Stream – reports

Kremlin dismisses tentative intelligence from European and US agencies as a bid by the perpetrators to divert attention

www.theguardian.com

European and US intelligence officials have obtained tentative intelligence to suggest a pro-Ukrainian saboteur group may have been behind the bombing of the Nord Stream gas pipelines last year, according to reports in the New York Times and German newspaper Die Zeit.

German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit.


The information has been shared between European intelligence agencies in an effort to establish more information about those who carried out the undersea bombings in September, an attack that had left western governments perplexed.

Details about the intelligence remain sketchy and it is unclear what confidence the US intelligence community places in the theory, as well as who may have organised, funded and directed such a daring attack on the gas pipelines running between Russia and Germany. But it is suggested that the government of Kyiv did not direct the underwater strike.

I don't know about this story. There's a hell of a lot of detail for there not being any names, grainy video of faces, or even nationality for that matter. Hell's bells, *I'm pro-Ukrainian. It's like this story was put out just to fuck with the Russians in that they narrowed it down to just about anyone.



*But if you seen me swim, you'd rule me out.

An interesting detail is that this explosion was in Swedish territorial waters and it was Sweden that detected the explosions. But they haven't cooperated with any other nations to share their data. Their justification is, because by doing so it would reveal the extent to Swedish detection capabilities. Something the Swedish military was not ok with. Worth noting is that the Swedish military has been catastrophically underfunded for half a century now. They have ample reasons to hide, just how shit, the Swedish military is and it's surveilance capabilities.

So the only party who sits on the data refuses to share it. And nobody trusts anyone.

That said, if the sabotage was carried out by the Ukraine, I'm cool with that. This is a war about the control of gas deposits under Ukraine. As such I think attacking Russias power infrastructure, to make this war as expensive as possible for Russia, is a legitimate target.

Yea, I could agree that Ukrainian attacking Russian infrastructure is legitimate! Jesus Christ, Russia is the biggest bunch of cry babies in the history the planet. They complain bitterly about Nordstream, a couple planes in Russia, a couple oil depots and three civilians killed in Russia. While they have relentlessly targeted civilians and infrastructure in Ukraine. They have directly killed thousands of employees and wrecked infrasture that will take a generation to repair. I'd recommend that if Russia wants to sell gas to Europeans, then stop killing Europeans. Whinners...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

I've learned to never underestimate Ukraine.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

I've learned to never underestimate Ukraine.

Resolve doesn't get you to the bottom of a sea to plant some sort of explosive on a gas line.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

I've learned to never underestimate Ukraine.

Resolve doesn't get you to the bottom of a sea to plant some sort of explosive on a gas line.

From what I read, I think that it seems likely that a splinter group trying to aid Ukraine pulled off the sabotage. I'd be shocked if Ukraine directly approved the attack.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Resolve doesn't get you to the bottom of a sea to plant some sort of explosive on a gas line.

From what I read, I think that it seems likely that a splinter group trying to aid Ukraine pulled off the sabotage. I'd be shocked if Ukraine directly approved the attack.

Doesn't that make it even less likely? What they rent a submersible with an arm for planting explosives?