Nordstream sabotage

[barbos]

It was US

 

[barbos]

Daily Kos has a longish article arguing that poor maintenance combined with a longish period of disuse created methane hydrate blockages. A less than careful attempt to get rid of them (presumably by the Russians) might have ruptured the pipeline.

That makes sense.

Yeah, all 4 lines at the time. I have an underwater natural gas pipeline to sell you, LP.

 

[barbos]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

First of all, it was not a drone, it was a truck bomb. Second of all, this "Ukraine did it" is a lame and pathetic attempt to react to Hersh investigation.
US government is engaged in industrial terrorism. Not to mention ordinary one.

 

[repoman]

This Nordstream sabotage is very amenable to celebration parallax.

Celebration Parallax​

The phenomenon whereby the exact same set of facts is either celebrated or deplored depending solely on the political bias of the observer.
When a liberal writes that increased immigration is good because it leads to a liberal demographic shift, but then writes that conservatives decrying increased immigration are pushing "replacement theory," that's celebration parallax.

However, I think that it is awesome we hit the Russians hard. Boom economic headshot.

The US threatened the Nordstream based on potential Russian actions and did the honorable thing of following through on that threat.

 

[barbos]

I think that it is awesome we hit the Russians hard

You hit Europeans, Russia can sell gas to China just fine.
Not to mention, use it in Russia.

 

[Elixir]

I think that it is awesome we hit the Russians hard

You hit Europeans, Russia can sell gas to China just fine.
Not to mention, use it in Russia.

Yeah Russia could be fairly self-sufficient if it wasn't for their leader's craven desire for expansionism, dominion and warfare. As it is, they are dependent on other dictatorships, and have become nothing more than Iran and China's proxy in their fight against democracy.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think that it is awesome we hit the Russians hard

You hit Europeans, Russia can sell gas to China just fine.
Not to mention, use it in Russia.

Yeah Russia could be fairly self-sufficient if it wasn't for their leader's craven desire for expansionism, dominion and warfare. As it is, they are dependent on other dictatorships, and have become nothing more than Iran and China's proxy in their fight against democracy.

Barbos doesn't know what he doesn't know. He thinks he does but has no idea how western democracy works. He seems like an affable enough chap, just grossly uninformed and inexperienced and of course living under the daily threat of being imprisoned or killed or tortured for not towing the state line.

 

[TomC]

He seems like an affable enough chap, just grossly uninformed and inexperienced

Barbos reminds me of my dad.
My dad spent years aboard a Navy ship rescuing USA from Japan in the 40s.

My dad also believed that the Bush II administration was headed to Iraq in 2003 to rescue the Iraqis from Islamic tyranny. That Bush II would "democratize" the Middle East.

Years later, my dad still believed it. He was a solid Reagan Republican. He believed what he heard on Fox News. In the Obama administration, he still believed that the problem with democratizing Iraq was the liberals who interfered with the Plan.
Tom

 

[barbos]

Barbos doesn't know what he doesn't know. He thinks he does but has no idea how western democracy works. He seems like an affable enough chap, just grossly uninformed and inexperienced and of course living under the daily threat of being imprisoned or killed or tortured for not towing the state line.

Uninformed here is you.

 

[barbos]

My dad also believed that the Bush II administration was headed to Iraq in 2003 to rescue the Iraqis from Islamic tyranny. That Bush II would "democratize" the Middle East.

Yeah, and you believe Russia is bad and needs democratizing.

 

[TomC]

My dad also believed that the Bush II administration was headed to Iraq in 2003 to rescue the Iraqis from Islamic tyranny. That Bush II would "democratize" the Middle East.

Yeah, and you believe Russia is bad and needs democratizing.

Well, I do.

But I certainly don't want the U.S. to get involved. Russians will have to do that for themselves or it just won't happen.
Tom

 

[barbos]

Well, I do.

Yes, you believe a lot of things that are simply untrue.

But I certainly don't want the U.S. to get involved.

US has always been involved.

 

[barbos]

Russians will have to do that for themselves or it just won't happen.

That's not your scam government logic. Their' logic is "That won't happen unless we (US) do it"
and "that" is not "democracy", it's puppet regime we (US) can control.

Now, it's all crashing down. You lost Africa, you lost South America, you lost Russia, you lost ... Georgia. Yes, Georgia is having second thoughts about even joining EU. It's all despite your attempts to organize another maidan there, right now. Your government is so desperate that it's trying to buy Kazakhstan government (after failed attempt to maidan it)
You're losing Saudi Arabia, the shining example of democracy in the ME.

You are risking losing Europe.

US regime is deranged and desperate.

 

[bilby]

for not towing the state line.

Point of order: The phrase is "Toeing the line" - it's origin is naval discipline, whereby a well disciplined body of sailors would parade on deck with their toes on a line between boards, to ensure perfectly straight and parallel ranks.

So a person who defies or disrespects the discipline of his superiors is failing to toe the line.

 

[Swammerdami]

for not towing the state line.

Point of order: The phrase is "Toeing the line" - it's origin is naval discipline, whereby a well disciplined body of sailors would parade on deck with their toes on a line between boards, to ensure perfectly straight and parallel ranks.

So a person who defies or disrespects the discipline of his superiors is failing to toe the line.

This hijack was already asked and answered -- and by the exact same trio -- eight months ago:

Raw Story reports Congressman Adam Kinzinger has announced since Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, that on a daily basis lots of people have contacted the January 6 Committee to volunteer to testify. This is getting better by the day.

I certainly hope something substantial comes of her testimony. The big revelation is that she switched lawyers. Did any of us think all that grift money was going to pay lawyers that would help witnesses tow the line and not disclose important information? There isn't any law against the arrangement but it sure is revealing.

Toe.

Obedient people toe the line.

It’s originally a naval expression; Sailors who mustered smartly and obediently would make perfect ranks by ensuring that their toes were on the line marked on the deck. A sloppy crew would have ragged looking ranks, because they didn’t toe the line.

It has nothing to do with towing anything; And you don’t tow a line, you use a line to tow something else.

Perhaps Mr. Moogly was thinking of Captain Queeg. He towed the line, but failed to toe the tow-line properly.

 

[bilby]

This hijack was already asked and answered -- and by the exact same trio -- eight months ago

At my age I'm lucky if I remember stuff that happened eight minutes ago.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Ukraine has this capability? It is one thing to fly a drone into a bridge pier. It is another to attack a submerged utility line.

I don't think you don't need a submarine or any advanced technology to do this. Depth charges is old technology by now. As long as you know where the pipe is, (fyi, information in the public domain) all you need is an explosive device that will go straight down and explode on impact. There were a number of boats seen on the surface before the explosions. So I am assuming, that's how it was done. Any little shit boat could have been used for this.

​

They wouldn't even need to make new bombs. I am sure there's still plenty of surviving depth charges from WW2 still around. I'm convinced Ukraine would have plenty from the Cold War days in storage.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It was US

I don't think it was USA, since it would piss off their NATO allies. The political cost of that could have been huge.

 

[Elixir]

But I certainly don't want the U.S. to get involved.

US has always been involved.

Yeah, it has been rankling Russians for decades now. America just keeps getting more prosperous while Russia falls victim to despotic leaders, failed government and useless wars that it starts with its neighbors.
I don’t blame you for being so jealous, Barbie.

 

[Jayjay]

Now, it's all crashing down. You lost Africa, you lost South America, you lost Russia, you lost ... Georgia. Yes, Georgia is having second thoughts about even joining EU. It's all despite your attempts to organize another maidan there, right now. Your government is so desperate that it's trying to buy Kazakhstan government (after failed attempt to maidan it)

Russian propaganda that you parrot is consistent in one thing: it blames everyone else for the stuff Russia is doing.

In moldova, Russia is funding and organizing protests and trying to topple the pro-EU government. So, of course Russian propagandists are claiming that USA is doing the same thing in Ukraine, Georgia, Kazakhstan.... or wherever people are protesting against the government. Of course there's no evidence whatsoever that protests in Georgia or Kazakhstan were in any way set up by the CIA or state department. Ukraine's example shows that if anything, the US was late to the party and didn't get what they wanted. In all thse countries it's just people protesting against their oppressive and corrupt governments, and your only interest in them is because the rules of Ukraine (in 2013), Georgia and Kazakhstan are Russian puppets.

But hey, let's look at Georgia. You're right that the protests petered down... but the reason is because they won and got what they wanted: withdrawal of the "Russian style" foreign agent bill that would've reduced their freedom of speech and brought the country one step closer to being a shithole autocracy like their northern neighbour.

Georgia drops bill on ‘foreign agents’ after two nights of violent protests

After criticism law was similar to Russian legislation used to stifle dissent, ruling party says it will withdraw bill

www.theguardian.com

Georgia’s ruling party has said it will drop its bill on “foreign agents” after fierce opposition culminated in two nights of violent protests and criticism that the draft law would limit press freedom and undercut the country’s efforts to become a candidate for EU membership.

The Georgian Dream party said in a statement it would “unconditionally withdraw the bill we supported without any reservations”. It cited the need to reduce “confrontation” in society.

Thousands of protesters rallied against the legislation, which was regarded as an authoritarian shift and could have undercut Tbilisi’s efforts to join the EU.

(...)

Protesters carrying Georgian, EU and Ukrainian flags gathered outside the parliament building and shouted: “No to the Russian law.” Demonstrators also blocked the city’s central Rustaveli Avenue, after a call from the main opposition party, the United National Movement, to gather there.

The EU delegation to Georgia welcomed the announcement, saying it wanted to “encourage all political leaders in Georgia to resume pro-EU reforms, in an inclusive and constructive way”.

(...)

“I will go the rally tonight again, we cannot stop now,” one protester said, speaking on conditions of anonymity. “This is our big chance to end all ties with Russia. We want to be with the EU.”

So if you want to frame these protests as some sort of proxy fight between US and Russia, which it is not, ... then you and your puppets lost this round.

Good for Georgian people that their government backed down instead of shooting at the crowds like Yanukovich did in Ukraine.