SCOTUS - AA ... news from the future

[Jimmy Higgins]

NEWS FROM THE FUTURE... TODAY

WASHINGTON DC -- Lawyers for white students argued a case with SCOTUS, indicating that race needs to be considered when managing college admissions, or it becomes difficult to have a diverse college student body. Since the UNC SCOTUS case where the SCOTUS ruled 6-3 against using race when considering admissions for students, the percentage of white students at prestigious universities plummeted as they were displaced by Asian students, both domestic and abroad. Generally, 65% of the white students in at the top 10% of colleges in the US are actually from Europe. America's white student population is typically relegated to smaller colleges with less prestigious programs.

Now back to the present.

link

“So we're talking about race as a determining factor in admission to Harvard,” Roberts asked.

It can be the determining factor, Waxman responded, “just as being an oboe player in a year in which the Harvard Radcliffe Orchestra needs an oboe player will be the tip.”

Roberts quickly shot back: “We did not fight a civil war about oboe players. We did fight a civil war to eliminate racial discrimination,” he said. “And that’s why it’s a matter of considerable concern. I think it’s important for you to establish whether or not granting a credit based solely on skin color is based on a stereotype when you say this brings diversity of viewpoint.”

Again, we see SCOTUS arguing for the purity of the law, not the actual outcome of it. This is effectively creating a caste system in the US. They refuse to actually look at the argument on a level surface. They put their partisan thumb on the scale and proclaim race is a "determining factor", when in reality it is more a mitigating factor. This isn't some case where some black student gets admission because they are black. That is seemingly the alt-right take on it. They ignore the achievements of said student, in unspoken of difficulties and environments. All the right-winger cares is the person is black and they shouldn't be there because some white person, under easier circumstances did a little better.

 

[steve_bank]

At Harvard it was Asian stents not whites making an issue.

We do not want SCOTUS to decide what they think is the right thing socially. We already see that depending on the majority of the court, as with abortion.

Race based admissions to arbitrarily create a statistical balance does what? It creates a sense of entitlement. If I fail it is bcause my skin is black.

Regardless of historical racism, blacks have to compete fairly for what an individual wants. Today I do not buy that blacks today dace an inherent barrier to higher education.

In the 70s I supported affirmative action. I worked at places where I knew if an application had a an address or an African sounding name from certain neighborhoods it was trashed.

What would the response be if the NBA or NFL selected white players who were not as good as black athletes in order to maintain 'diversity'?

As MLK said, no one shoud be judged by the color of skin.

 

[Elixir]

They put their partisan thumb on the scale and proclaim race is a "determining factor", when in reality it is more a mitigating factor.

They say "can be" (which is of course inarguable) and go on to presume that it WILL be in at least enough instances to justify prohibiting race from consideration. They might as well be saying "If it only saves one white boy from humiliation, wouldn't it be worth it?"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

At Harvard it was Asian stents not whites making an issue.

Was it? Because whites seems to be leading the charge here. A good piece at UNC about the UNC Asian students being against the lawsuit. This is much like "mothers against abortion" typically being a bunch of older white men. This is racist white America trying to take blacks out of their institutions.

We do not want SCOTUS to decide what they think is the right thing socially. We already see that depending on the majority of the court, as with abortion.

Umm no, not remotely the same thing, as both cases will rely on a dependence of hyper-technicality over real world. These cases are much more like Plessy v Ferguson, where the court sees no evil, hears no evil as they pretend that things can 'just work out' as long as it is separate but equal.

Regardless of historical racism, blacks have to compete fairly for what an individual wants. Today I do not buy that blacks today dace an inherent barrier to higher education.

Blacks in Jackson, Mississippi can't drink the fucking water! You don't think that has an impact on school performance?

In the 70s I supported affirmative action. I worked at places where I knew if an application had a an address or an African sounding name from certain neighborhoods it was trashed.

What would the response be if the NBA or NFL selected white players who were not as good as black athletes in order to maintain 'diversity'?

At not point in our fucking history were whites held back from opportunities to play in professional sports, so that analogy is stupid.

Affirmative Action is about the chance at being given an opportunity. One that was stolen due to intentional multi-generational discrimination, theft, and restrictions.

As MLK said, no one shoud be judged by the color of skin.

Which is why Africans Americans fill out the rest of their fucking college applications!

 

[Elixir]

Blacks in Jackson, Mississippi can't drink the fucking water! You don't think that has an impact on school performance?

Why don't they move to the Heatherton neighborhood, then? The schools are better there too.
If they cared about their little delinquent kids' education they'd do that! Right, Steve?

 

[Oleg]

They put their partisan thumb on the scale and proclaim race is a "determining factor", when in reality it is more a mitigating factor.

They say "can be" (which is of course inarguable) and go on to presume that it WILL be in at least enough instances to justify prohibiting race from consideration. They might as well be saying "If it only saves one white boy from humiliation, wouldn't it be worth it?"

The animus of the left against White males is astonishing. The present case before the Supreme Court was brought by Asians - who are clearly discriminated against the most of any group. Yet, to maintain the Orwellian “some are more equal than others” diatribe, White males are trotted out as the real problem.

 

[Oleg]

This is racist white America trying to take blacks out of their institutions.

Are you just completely unaware of the penalty Asians face in admissions? They score higher than any other group on the SAT and ACT, yet a low scoring non-Asian applicant has a much better chance of acceptance. There may be a fear that Asians would dominate universities if race-based admissions were end; at least be honest about that.

 

[Oleg]

Blacks in Jackson, Mississippi can't drink the fucking water! You don't think that has an impact on school performance?

Asians in NYC are among the lowest income groups yet their children excel at selective schools. Why punish them?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is racist white America trying to take blacks out of their institutions.

Are you just completely unaware of the penalty Asians face in admissions?

Is it anything like people in Massachusetts trying to get into Harvard or Brown or MIT because being local is a knock against ya?

They score higher than any other group on the SAT and ACT, yet a low scoring non-Asian applicant has a much better chance of acceptance.

Well that is great. Thanks for simplifying a college admission form to a single metric... or maybe even two metrics. You know, if you move to India, they already have a caste system in place that you'll just love.

There may be a fear that Asians would dominate universities if race-based admissions were end; at least be honest about that.

I'll take People who didn't read the OP for $800 Mayim.

 

[Oleg]

Blacks in Jackson, Mississippi can't drink the fucking water! You don't think that has an impact on school performance?

Why don't they move to the Heatherton neighborhood, then? The schools are better there too.
If they cared about their little delinquent kids' education they'd do that! Right, Steve?

Baltimore has perhaps the third highest public school budget in the country. Yet, …

 

[Oleg]

Well that is great. Thanks for simplifying a college admission form to a single metric... or maybe even two metrics. You know, if you move to India, they already have a caste system in place that you'll just love.

You’re the one who wants to punish an applicant for their skin hue, not me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well that is great. Thanks for simplifying a college admission form to a single metric... or maybe even two metrics. You know, if you move to India, they already have a caste system in place that you'll just love.

You’re the one who wants to punish an applicant for their skin hue, not me.

I’ll be damned before cyan colored people drink from the same fountain as me!

 

[Oleg]

Well that is great. Thanks for simplifying a college admission form to a single metric... or maybe even two metrics. You know, if you move to India, they already have a caste system in place that you'll just love.

You’re the one who wants to punish an applicant for their skin hue, not me.

I’ll be damned before cyan colored people drink from the same fountain as me!

I don’t doubt you believe that.

 

[Gospel]

What would the response be if the NBA or NFL selected white players who were not as good as black athletes in order to maintain 'diversity'?

They wouldn't have to because the players stats speak for themselves. Where do you think the NBA gets players from? College, where do colleges get players from? Highschool? Where do high schools get players from? Their student base and only the truly talented make it all the way to the top. Affirmative action was there because without it (hypothetically) black students wouldn't have been let on the basketball team in highschool to begin with.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What would the response be if the NBA or NFL selected white players who were not as good as black athletes in order to maintain 'diversity'?

They wouldn't have to because the players stats speak for themselves. Where do you think the NBA gets players from? College, where do colleges get players from? Highschool? Where do high schools get players from? Their student base and only the truly talented make it all the way to the top. Affirmative action was there because without it (hypothetically) black students wouldn't have been let on the basketball team in highschool to begin with.

Actually it carries better as players are drafted for talent, not just stats. But but, that other guy averaged 2.5 more ppg and had 1.3 more assists. They should have drafted him!

 

[Elixir]

The animus of the left against White males is astonishing.

My animus is not against white males, nor do I capitalize "white" when describing myself.
My animus is toward unfairness and bigotry.
As they say ... "IF THE FOO SHITS ... "

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Was it? Because whites seems to be leading the charge here. A good piece at UNC about the UNC Asian students being against the lawsuit. This is much like "mothers against abortion" typically being a bunch of older white men. This is racist white America trying to take blacks out of their institutions.

Which is silly because the primary benefit will be to the Asians, the whites aren't going to get much. They're being stopped clock about it.

Regardless of historical racism, blacks have to compete fairly for what an individual wants. Today I do not buy that blacks today dace an inherent barrier to higher education.

Blacks in Jackson, Mississippi can't drink the fucking water! You don't think that has an impact on school performance?

1) As with most "discrimination" it's actually socioeconomic or political.

2) Letting them into college with lower scores isn't going to undo the harm.

At not point in our fucking history were whites held back from opportunities to play in professional sports, so that analogy is stupid.

Affirmative Action is about the chance at being given an opportunity. One that was stolen due to intentional multi-generational discrimination, theft, and restrictions.

Which is basically saying two wrongs make a right. Hint: The benefits of AA go to people who weren't harmed by the past discrimination.

 

[Oleg]

My animus is toward unfairness and bigotry.

So you'd be against a person gaining advantage or suffering disadvantage due to immutable characteristics, right?

 

[Metaphor]

NEWS FROM THE FUTURE... TODAY

WASHINGTON DC -- Lawyers for white students argued a case with SCOTUS, indicating that race needs to be considered when managing college admissions, or it becomes difficult to have a diverse college student body. Since the UNC SCOTUS case where the SCOTUS ruled 6-3 against using race when considering admissions for students, the percentage of white students at prestigious universities plummeted as they were displaced by Asian students, both domestic and abroad. Generally, 65% of the white students in at the top 10% of colleges in the US are actually from Europe. America's white student population is typically relegated to smaller colleges with less prestigious programs.

Now back to the present.

link

“So we're talking about race as a determining factor in admission to Harvard,” Roberts asked.

It can be the determining factor, Waxman responded, “just as being an oboe player in a year in which the Harvard Radcliffe Orchestra needs an oboe player will be the tip.”

Roberts quickly shot back: “We did not fight a civil war about oboe players. We did fight a civil war to eliminate racial discrimination,” he said. “And that’s why it’s a matter of considerable concern. I think it’s important for you to establish whether or not granting a credit based solely on skin color is based on a stereotype when you say this brings diversity of viewpoint.”

Again, we see SCOTUS arguing for the purity of the law, not the actual outcome of it. This is effectively creating a caste system in the US.

Not discriminating by race does not create a caste system. It dismantles it.

They refuse to actually look at the argument on a level surface. They put their partisan thumb on the scale and proclaim race is a "determining factor", when in reality it is more a mitigating factor.

Why should it be any factor at all?

This isn't some case where some black student gets admission because they are black. That is seemingly the alt-right take on it. They ignore the achievements of said student, in unspoken of difficulties and environments. All the right-winger cares is the person is black and they shouldn't be there because some white person, under easier circumstances did a little better.

Do you believe this? Do you believe that all white people had "easier circumstances" than all black people, and this justifies race-based systemic discrimination against white people?

And when you claim the white person not let in did 'a little better', what is your metric? Do you mean, they did 'a little better' on objective measures known to predict university success, such as aptitude and achievement records? How much do you think 'a little' is? And when do you know that a little has become a little too much?

What is your rule for acceptable discrimination by race? When do you put your foot down and say 'here, and no further'?

 

[Derec]

My animus is toward unfairness and bigotry.

Like the unfairness and bigotry of discriminating on the basis of race in college admissions?