Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[southernhybrid]

The sad thing is that a lot of people still take all that Bible shit to be the literal truth. I was taught that there was a man who lived to be over 900 years old when I was a child, because the Bible says so. So, sometimes I do wonder why we even discuss such nonsense.

 

[excreationist]

The sad thing is that a lot of people still take all that Bible shit to be the literal truth. I was taught that there was a man who lived to be over 900 years old when I was a child, because the Bible says so.

Well here is a more technical explanation:

Ancient Biblical Lifespans

Exploring how Adam, Methuselah, and Noah in the book of Genesis really lived for centuries and biological/genetic reasons why humans no longer live that long.

answersingenesis.org

So, sometimes I do wonder why we even discuss such nonsense.

Some Christians think there are good reasons to believe in the 900+ lifespans...

 

[WAB]

Well obviously, the first People were aliens who kept zipping back into space and returning centuries later. /Giorgio Tsoukalos

 

[southernhybrid]

The sad thing is that a lot of people still take all that Bible shit to be the literal truth. I was taught that there was a man who lived to be over 900 years old when I was a child, because the Bible says so.

Well here is a more technical explanation:

Ancient Biblical Lifespans

Exploring how Adam, Methuselah, and Noah in the book of Genesis really lived for centuries and biological/genetic reasons why humans no longer live that long.

answersingenesis.org

So, sometimes I do wonder why we even discuss such nonsense.

Some Christians think there are good reasons to believe in the 900+ lifespans...

I took a look at your link and that's exactly what I meant. the Bible says it's true so it must be true and we will find a way to explain it, even if it makes no sense.

 

[bilby]

What I'm saying is that they would know the ages of some real people - e.g. one guy might be 79, another 52, etc....

How would they know that?

 

[bilby]

quite a lot of Christians believe 900+ lifespans were historical

Reality always trumps belief.

 

[excreationist]

What I'm saying is that they would know the ages of some real people - e.g. one guy might be 79, another 52, etc....

How would they know that?

They could watch the seasons and increase the year count by one each cycle....

 

[bilby]

Some Christians think there are good reasons to believe in the 900+ lifespans...

Yeah, but these are people who think "it's in the Bible" is a good reason to believe things.

They're simply wrong.

It's not even difficult to see that they're wrong.

And it's not as though people being wrong about stuff is a rare and inexplicable phenomenon.

 

[bilby]

What I'm saying is that they would know the ages of some real people - e.g. one guy might be 79, another 52, etc....

How would they know that?

They could watch the seasons and increase the year count by one each cycle....

Starting at what age?

How accurate was your counting when you were an infant?

As I mentioned, there are plenty of people today who don't know how old they are.

The idea that it was important enough to bother is very recent. People generally didn't care. If you weren't old enough to grow a beard, you were a boy. If your beard was grey, you were an elder. In between you were a man. Why does anyone care more than that?

My mate Ali was born in the summertime. His parents agree on that, but not on which year. Neither of them describe the years by numbers; They remember the year of the big floods, the year that the locusts ate all the crops, the year that the old chief died and there was fighting over who would take his place. And they are not entirely sure which ones came before which others, particularly when they were close together, and a long time ago.

Counting everything, putting numbers to everything, and keeping accurate numerical records of stuff, is an obsession that only became commonplace in the seventeenth century. Before that it was the preserve of a handful of shamans, priests, astrologers and other assorted nutters.

Sure they could

watch the seasons and increase the year count by one each cycle

But why would they? They had better things to do with their lives, like trying not to starve to death, or to drown in the floods, or to get enslaved by their neighbours.

 

[excreationist]

Some Christians think there are good reasons to believe in the 900+ lifespans...

Yeah, but these are people who think "it's in the Bible" is a good reason to believe things.

Though some creationists don't believe in a flat earth despite what the Bible says... here they rely on scientific arguments to argue against a flat earth: (rather than argue against it using Bible verses)

Refuting flat earth

Refuting flat earth teachings with horizon, time zones, southern hemisphere, constellations, circumnavigation, South Pole.

creation.com

 

[excreationist]

What I'm saying is that they would know the ages of some real people - e.g. one guy might be 79, another 52, etc....

How would they know that?

They could watch the seasons and increase the year count by one each cycle....

Starting at what age?

How accurate was your counting when you were an infant?

Obviously someone else would do the counting at the start.

Sure they could

watch the seasons and increase the year count by one each cycle

But why would they? They had better things to do with their lives, like trying not to starve to death, or to drown in the floods, or to get enslaved by their neighbours.

If they can check that 969 and 777 year lifespans don't quite go after the flood then they can count the life spans of real people. Ages are mentioned through out the Bible so people would probably be interested in their own ages.

 

[Learner]

The sad thing is that a lot of people still take all that Bible shit to be the literal truth. I was taught that there was a man who lived to be over 900 years old when I was a child, because the Bible says so.

Well here is a more technical explanation:

Ancient Biblical Lifespans

Exploring how Adam, Methuselah, and Noah in the book of Genesis really lived for centuries and biological/genetic reasons why humans no longer live that long.

answersingenesis.org

Yes the bible only tells the story of a particular person, at a particular time when the earth was much different than today, but it shouldn't be that more astonishing to you, since I know you both know the story concerning Jesus, where He is healing the sick, walking on water and being resurrected.

You see, you should have also been taught that the bible also 'says', mankind's life-spans will be 'limited' to 120 years!

"Gen 6:3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

Deuteronomy 34:7 Moses was 120 years old when he died. His eye was undimmed, and his vigor unabated."

Life expectancy was 39 in the 1760's in Britain but today on average, 72 years is the life expectancy (in-the-ball-park rough estimate for the sake of argument). The bible says also so, in Psalms 90:10, seventy to eighty years was the average then, which amazingly parallels a similar level of health, and life expectancy, knowledgably comparable to ours today .

"Psalms 90:10 The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty [on average]; yet their span is but toil and trouble ; they are soon gone, and we fly away."

...................................................................................................

So, sometimes I do wonder why we even discuss such nonsense.

Some Christians think there are good reasons to believe in the 900+ lifespans...

I acknowledge the strong emphasis you're both focused on, although this is but a small part of the scriptural whole.

The bible amazingly says the 120 years, way back then! It seems this number is taken seriously, being understood in perspective; a marker, or indicator to a threshold in view as a non-religious perspective.. 120 years expectancy, is an acceptable reality for both our sides.


Scientists claim many people could soon live beyond 120 years old

Excerpt from link below:
[...] And even if we make it through life with few stressors, this incremental decline sets the maximum life span for humans at somewhere between 120 and 150 years. In the end, if the obvious hazards do not take our lives, this fundamental loss of resilience will do so, the researchers conclude in findings published in May 2021 in Nature Communications.
we-may-live-longer-120-years-scientists-say

 

[southernhybrid]

Even if scientists predictions are correct, which they may not be, 120 years is far different from 900+ years. I honestly don't know how you are able, as an adult, to believe such nonsense, other than it says so in the Bible, so now matter how silly it is, it must be true. Next you'll be telling me that Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt. Oh wait. the Bible says it so it must be true. Or that a big fish swallowed a man, then threw him up 3 days later, perfectly intact, and there's plenty more where that came from, isn't there? And, we haven't even started on what a mean god that OT god is, judging by those OT myths. You know.....like God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son and then he said. "Just kidding. I just wanted to see if you'd do it."

 

[Swammerdami]

OP invited a discussion of various "Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand," I think. There are certainly plenty of Bible stories I don't understand!

Here's one Spong mentions. If it isn't cryptic, what is the morality message? (There are TWO fig-tree parables in Mark. I show both: Are the two parables related?)

Chapter 11: 12-14
And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

[They continue to Jerusalem's Temple where Jesus "overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and the chairs of them that sold doves.."]

Chapter 11: 19-24
And when even was come, he went out of the city. And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Chapter 13: 28-32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthews's version is different. There Jesus curses the fig-tree AFTER cleansing the Temple, and the tree withers at once. Matthew doesn't mention "for the time of figs was not yet."

 

[Learner]

Even if scientists predictions are correct, which they may not be, 120 years is far different from 900+ years.

Yes but as long as you understand, no Christian is claiming they themselves will live for 900 + years.

I honestly don't know how you are able, as an adult, to believe such nonsense, other than it says so in the Bible, so now matter how silly it is, it must be true. Next you'll be telling me that Lot's wife turned into a pillar of salt.

In contrast to being an adult I wouldn't be reading anything into Winnie the Pooh written for children.

Oh wait. the Bible says it so it must be true. Or that a big fish swallowed a man, then threw him up 3 days later, perfectly intact, and there's plenty more where that came from, isn't there? And, we haven't even started on what a mean god that OT god is, judging by those OT myths.

Yes well, I see it this way. If these said events, mentioned in the OT hasn't been rejected by Jesus, as being false events then I believe this by faith. This is the beauty of both OT and NT they give between them validation. In short, to destroy Christianity prove Jesus wasn't real! The dark hidden forces, if you will, are still working on it.

You know.....like God told Abraham to sacrifice his only son and then he said. "Just kidding. I just wanted to see if you'd do it."

I think God wanted satan to see it, being faithful and all. God stopped Abraham, and said to him that He'll supply the sacrificial lamb, hence the existence of the NT.

 

[Elixir]

In contrast to being an adult I wouldn't be reading anything into Winnie the Pooh written for children.

We know who wrote WTP and why he wrote it. We know that the supposedly inerrant Bible is a compilation of accounts and stories from tens or hundreds of individuals, and that this compilation has been repeatedly edited, translated, re-edited, and re-translated by various political and religious power mongers. Read stuff into that mess at your own peril - that’s how you get religious wars.

I think God wanted satan to see it, being faithful and all. God said to Abraham that He'll supply the sacrificial lamb hence Jesus.

I think AA Milne wrote WTP for his kid’s entertainment. And I have evidence to that effect. First hand accounts that can be verified, abound. it is non- controversial. Makes it very easy to read the right thing into WTP.

You have an irrational conclusion supported by your own interpretation of some ancient 3rd hand hearsay. The results of reading stuff into that mess are historically evident.

 

[Learner]

In contrast to being an adult I wouldn't be reading anything into Winnie the Pooh written for children.

We know who wrote WTP and why he wrote it.

I would use the very same example when someone tried to makes comparisons between Harry Potter or Santa etc.

We know that the supposedly inerrant Bible is a compilation of accounts and stories from tens or hundreds of individuals, and that this compilation has been repeatedly edited, translated, re-edited, and re-translated by various political and religious power mongers. Read stuff into that mess at your own peril - that’s how you get religious wars.

The 'dead sea scrolls', 1000 years earlier, when compared to later bibles, demonstrates quite minor changes mostly grammatical human errors. The narrative is identical regardless which translation you read.

 

[Elixir]

Cave drawings pre-date those scrolls by tens of thousands of years, and make no mention of Jesus or Christian gods. But they are more ancient, so they are more authoritative.*

* believers’ logical fallacy canard #4,756

Nonetheless, I hope next time to make one of your stretch assertions, you will back it up with a direct quote from the Dead Sea Scrolls. Be sure to tell us which jar in which cave held the particular scroll you are quoting.
/sarcasm

I have never known ANYONE to quote DSS in support of their superstition. All they do is yell “DEAD SEA SCROLLS!” as if it was a magic incantation to ward off the devil.

 

[Learner]

Cave drawing pre-date those scrolls by tens of thousands of years, and make no mention of Jesus or Christian gods.

Do they mention Genghis Khan, Alexander the great, or Caesar ?

 

[Elixir]

How would that make any of your arguments credible?