Mississippi Passes "More Dead Kids Please" bill. Texas responds w/ "hold my beer"

[Jarhyn]

Admitted lack of knowledge is not a convincing basis for a position in my view.

Well, no. I’m aware that many European countries have now reversed their position on “gender affirming” mutilation of minors. That’s because the evidence of long-term benefit is lacking. In short, this is all experimental and these children used as guinea pigs.

Applying that reasoning, no improvements in treatment care would ever be adopted.

You assume that a child with atypical gender behavior needs “treatment”; why? Perhaps if adults quit lying to them their “dysphoria” will go away.

Best to just beat it out of them or send them to Marcus Bachmann's "clinic" for "treatment". Got news for you. They don't "grow out of it".

And the fact is, nobody is "recommending" treatment. They are approving requested treatment in most cases AFAIK.

A child's pronoun should always be "they" until they decide which one they want, what that means, and if that changes over the years it changes over the years. If it does, and they need more time to think it over, blockers don't mutilate children.

We have centuries of evidence that blocking puberty does not harm folks on the whole, not even when done indefinitely, and that folks who do so live normal, functional lives often as women.

This is not mutilation. It's "wait till you are 18, preferably 21 to shut it off forever, and maybe freeze some sperms first."

I had a coworker whose ovaries and uterus were not functional and she did not want them and doctors would still not take out what remained if those organs despite the horrible suffering they put her in.

People born with uteruses, functional or not, should have the right to remove them, when they are 21.

Before that, they have a right to never have them turned on, and I imagine it's easy enough to harvest their eggs for them at the time of removal, if they ask for that, same as semen can be put on ice.

This is about preventing all cutting on kids.

Detransitioners following a single late medically induced puberty would need to account for .5% of the general population for their existence to be an argument against trans rights to transition.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And how do we know they didn't?

The Babylon Bee... continuing proof that conservatives just aren't as good (or even good) at satire. And this is even bad by their standards. Soldiers in WWI weren't diagnosed with PTSD, rather they were executed. So does PTSD not exist as we know it back as we know it now, or were those soldiers simply cowards?

Yeah, I know it's satire--my point is that it's making a claim that can't be proven.

As for PTSD in WWI, wasn't it called shell shock back then?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Source: unknown.

Why the Mental Health of Liberal Girls Sank First and Fastest

Evidence for Lukianoff’s reverse CBT hypothesis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

But it may also show that liberals are less likely to consider themselves victims than conservatives.

Wut?

Look at the age distribution. What you're seeing is far more a matter of how willing someone is to talk to a doctor about the issue.

 

[Bomb#20]

Exactly. The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman.

The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give you the slightest desire to be a woman. Therefore the social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give some socially excluded adolescent girl the slightest desire to be a boy? One's own tendencies are not necessarily a reliable predictor of other people's tendencies.

Why would it make her want to be a boy?

I don't know, maybe because being trans would make her one of the cool kids, or because she perceives that boys get treated better than girls, or because she's a depressed alienated teenager and she latched onto it when somebody suggested she might really a boy, or because she's a lesbian and heard that means she has a male brain, or any number of other possibilities. The point is, "The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman." is a weak argument -- people are all different and they might not think like you'd think when you put yourself in their shoes.

 

[scombrid]

Therefore we should send anybody with these perverted ideas to Christian reeducation centers where they can get straightened out. It is only because society created the space to have these perversions that anyone ever drifts into such sinfulness. See the babbleon bee has it right after all.

 

[Bomb#20]

Therefore we should send anybody with these perverted ideas to Christian reeducation centers where they can get straightened out. It is only because society created the space to have these perversions that anyone ever drifts into such sinfulness. See the babbleon bee has it right after all.

Show your work.

 

[Elixir]

Therefore we should send anybody with these perverted ideas to Christian reeducation centers where they can get straightened out. It is only because society created the space to have these perversions that anyone ever drifts into such sinfulness. See the babbleon bee has it right after all.

Show your work.

Show how yours doesn’t imply what he wrote. Seems to me it does. Doesn’t part of your point consist of “more social space for trans = more trans”? And isn’t the implication that ”more trans” is undesirable?
It is undesirable to me, yes. But as you keep pointing out, it is a mistake to project one’s own preferences upon others. Seems like your case is “yeah but this time it’s okay because kids adolescence maturity” and blah blah blah.

 

[Bomb#20]

Therefore we should send anybody with these perverted ideas to Christian reeducation centers where they can get straightened out. It is only because society created the space to have these perversions that anyone ever drifts into such sinfulness. See the babbleon bee has it right after all.

Show your work.

Show how yours doesn’t imply what he wrote.

"In every system of morality, which I have hitherto met with, I have always remarked, that the author proceeds for some time in the ordinary way of reasoning, and establishes the being of a God, or makes observations concerning human affairs; when of a sudden I am surprised to find, that instead of the usual copulations of propositions, is, and is not, I meet with no proposition that is not connected with an ought, or an ought not. This change is imperceptible; but is, however, of the last consequence. For as this ought, or ought not, expresses some new relation or affirmation, it's necessary that it should be observed and explained; and at the same time that a reason should be given, for what seems altogether inconceivable, how this new relation can be a deduction from others, which are entirely different from it. But as authors do not commonly use this precaution, I shall presume to recommend it to the readers..."

 

[Elixir]

I agree with all that verbosity (I think) but see no answer to how your stance doesn’t proceed as I described.

 

[bilby]

I agree with all that verbosity (I think) but see no answer to how your stance doesn’t proceed as I described.

He saying that because he understands the is-ought problem, you ought not accuse him of perpetrating it

 

[Jarhyn]

I agree with all that verbosity (I think) but see no answer to how your stance doesn’t proceed as I described.

He saying that because he understands the is-ought problem, you ought not accuse him of perpetrating it

I'm not sure he does.

The fact is, I'm neutral on gender transition. It is certainly "for" some people, and definitely NOT "for" others. The people it is "for" will generally express interest merely knowing of the possibility, and those who are curious, not serious, can promptly resume their regularly scheduled hormones.

I think everyone needs to be aware there are options, most generally so that they can promptly decide they don't care, they're fine with themselves as they are. Some will care and that's fine, and those can be informed of and allowed access to reversible measures for some time to ascertain seriousness in a course of treatment.

I think the biggest issue and fight will always come from those who feel obligated to reproduce, and who don't want to end up having their offspring "decide" to be that, someone that fails to bring grandchildren.

The second biggest fight will come from those who resent this not being an option and presentation for themselves at that age.

 

[Elixir]

I think the biggest issue and fight will always come from those who feel obligated to reproduce.

Those are called "organisms". Every population of self replicators "feels obligated" to reproduce, or there would be no population. Certain pressures can create overriding obligations that include individuals not reproducing, but there is no getting rid of the almost universal feeling of obligation to reproduce.
Talk about a fight... this really needs to revert to the primal issues that are operative here; anti trans people should be incredibly enthusiastically pleased with the fact that they can out-reproduce trans people and will therefore "win" in the long run. They should encourage as many as possible (other than their own offspring of course) to be or become trans, so that their superior genes can dominate.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think the biggest issue and fight will always come from those who feel obligated to reproduce.

Those are called "organisms". Every population of self replicators "feels obligated" to reproduce, or there would be no population. Certain pressures can create overriding obligations that include individuals not reproducing, but there is no getting rid of the almost universal feeling of obligation to reproduce.
Talk about a fight... this really needs to revert to the primal issues that are operative here; anti trans people should be incredibly enthusiastically pleased with the fact that they can out-reproduce trans people and will therefore "win" in the long run. They should encourage as many as possible (other than their own offspring of course) to be or become trans, so that their superior genes can dominate.

I disagree. there are those who are perfectly happy to reproduce and feel no obligation to do so; they are agnostic to the concept of obligation.

Specifically, there are those who feel obligated to reproduce, who feel it is a chore they must undertake.

The problem is they cannot out-produce trans people since trans people are a normal output of the process without needing to feed back in. Consider there may be something about atypical people that makes humanity more adaptive.

Their doing any producing produces trans people.

Rather, they resent that some do not bow to the forces they feel obligated by.

 

[Oleg]

Yeah, I know it's satire--my point is that it's making a claim that can't be proven.

Wut? When was this mass teen suicide Loren? How many kids in your high school killed themselves because they couldn't change their sex? The gender cult has fried your brain.

 

[Oleg]

It is certainly "for" some people, and definitely NOT "for" others.

Sure. That's why it's a decision that should wait until someone has matured; not when they're an adolescent and easy to manipulate by those who would harm them. Please leave the kids alone.

 

[Jarhyn]

That's why it's a decision that should wait until someone has matured

"Don't give them a decision until the decision is meaningless". Got it. You don't want them to have a decision.

You want your sensibilities to have more meaning in their lives than their own.

That's called abuse.

People who do that to children are guilty of child abuse.

It very much appears like you wish to abuse children.

Maturity happens regardless of whether puberty (secondary sexual development) happens. We have proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that secondary sexual development happens successfully to the extent the signals are produced, even when it is starts at a different time than the "growth spurt".

 

[Elixir]

there are those who are perfectly happy to reproduce and feel no obligation to do so; they are agnostic to the concept of obligation.

That’s like saying there are people who are happy to eat and are not hungry. There are individuals who reproduce without feeling driven to do so, and some who do not, without feeling like they're resisting an urge. But on a population level the dynamic I referenced prevails.

 

[Jarhyn]

there are those who are perfectly happy to reproduce and feel no obligation to do so; they are agnostic to the concept of obligation.

That’s like saying there are people who are happy to eat and are not hungry. There are individuals who reproduce without feeling driven to do so, and some who do not, without feeling like they're resisting an urge. But on a population level the dynamic I referenced prevails.

Obligation here is intended to mean something to do with duty rather than something to do with what we want.

There is a deep difference there, and the fact is that some people feel an obligation to have children. Largely this is a religious thing, but I expect it's an emergent thing.

Most people don't have children because "they need to", they have children because they want to do the things that cause children.

There are people who do not eat merely because "they are hungry", and who do not want to for that reason. Some folks literally only eat because if they don't they'll die.

Similarly, some people really only have kids because they feel that if they don't they will be punished in an afterlife somehow.

I imagine there are plenty of people who DON'T want to have kids but have them anyway because they feel OBLIGATED.

Maybe people feel obligated after making them, but feeling obligated to START them is abnormal.

I CAN contemplate how someone may reach resentment of those who do not follow after such feelings of obligation to reproduce, and more still against those who become entirely reproductively nonfunctional.

My thought is that those who would attempt to sell others on such feelings of obligation can shove it. Nobody should feel obligated to produce more people. If you feel obligated despite what you want, that's evidence that you should consider challenging why you feel obligated at all.

 

[Elixir]

Obligation here is intended to mean something to do with duty rather than something to do with what we want.

That's where we have a disconnect; I was referring to a biological imperative, something of which most people subject to its influence are unaware.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exactly. The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman.

The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give you the slightest desire to be a woman. Therefore the social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give some socially excluded adolescent girl the slightest desire to be a boy? One's own tendencies are not necessarily a reliable predictor of other people's tendencies.

Why would it make her want to be a boy?

I don't know, maybe because being trans would make her one of the cool kids, or because she perceives that boys get treated better than girls, or because she's a depressed alienated teenager and she latched onto it when somebody suggested she might really a boy, or because she's a lesbian and heard that means she has a male brain, or any number of other possibilities. The point is, "The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman." is a weak argument -- people are all different and they might not think like you'd think when you put yourself in their shoes.

This reply seemed apt to the above post.

Therefore we should send anybody with these perverted ideas to Christian reeducation centers where they can get straightened out. It is only because society created the space to have these perversions that anyone ever drifts into such sinfulness. See the babbleon bee has it right after all.

Show your work.

Seems peculiar that people can have any such ideas about individuals they don't know regarding their personal struggles with identity, as well as their doctors, family, and social circle. The alt-right's doubt of the teen (or adult) and their doctor(s) and their family and their friends and their cohorts and their psychologist (likely). That only if all those people could know it just might be a phase. Rush to the mountain tops Bomb#20, hurry and yell so all of America can hear you because everyone else is stupid and incapable of judging things on their own. Incapable of knowing their patient or child or parent.

You need to tell the world it could just be a phase!

And when you are done with that, there are other psychological and medical things we need to get your opinion on. Specifically, there is a patient with Cancer and we need to know how you think it should be treated. Or treated at all. Could just be a doctor trying to look cool with a patient with cancer.