Mississippi Passes "More Dead Kids Please" bill. Texas responds w/ "hold my beer"

[TomC]

I agree that your habit is disturbing.

Either you think it's okay or it's not. There really is no middle ground.

No, not really.

I'm with you, mostly, on the issues here.
But the pics are gross to the point of counterproductive, IMNSHO.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Teenager. Obvious cutter. How does the gender cult “treat” her - by cutting her more.

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

Instead of recognizing she might need psychological treatment - like all the teenage cutters in the past - we’ll just jump to the least likely cause and perform the most drastic procedure. It’s like treating an anorexic with fasting.

How do you know she didn't have psychological treatment? You seem to gain a lot of information from one photograph. Is it a gift you have?

Or just bullshit?

Did you miss the cutting? Have we thrown out all common sense?

No, of course I didn't. Did you miss this?

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

You, as you usually do, make a lot of assumptions that just happen to follow your political views. It's a very convenient way of skipping steps to come to a simple and probably wrong conclusion. But hey, it's not your kid, right. So being wrong is harmless to you. But I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourself though.

 

[ZiprHead]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

No, we affirm their feeling with psychological treatment, just like we do for transgender children.

You don't tell them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be fixed. That's child abuse.

What if it's the kids telling that to the adults? What is it then?

 

[laughing dog]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

No, we affirm their feeling with psychological treatment, just like we do for transgender children.

You don't tell them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be fixed. That's child abuse.

It would be in the first or second session. But why are you against information and treatment?

 

[Oleg]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

No, we affirm their feeling with psychological treatment, just like we do for transgender children.

You don't tell them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be fixed. That's child abuse.

It would be in the first or second session. But why are you against information and treatment?

Does the informed consent discussion include telling the child they cannot change their sex? Of course, not. Because the affirmation model would never allow that. Are you okay with lying to children?

 

[Jarhyn]

Teenager. Obvious cutter. How does the gender cult “treat” her - by cutting her more.

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

Instead of recognizing she might need psychological treatment - like all the teenage cutters in the past - we’ll just jump to the least likely cause and perform the most drastic procedure. It’s like treating an anorexic with fasting.

How do you know she didn't have psychological treatment? You seem to gain a lot of information from one photograph. Is it a gift you have?

Or just bullshit?

Did you miss the cutting? Have we thrown out all common sense?

No, of course I didn't. Did you miss this?

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

You, as you usually do, make a lot of assumptions that just happen to follow your political views. It's a very convenient way of skipping steps to come to a simple and probably wrong conclusion. But hey, it's not your kid, right. So being wrong is harmless to you. But I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourself though.

I mean, for all Oleg knows, the cutting was associated with their relative distance from their gender identity.

A lot of cutting is deflection from deeper self-harm issues arising from body issue problems.

Some people begin to hate and thus regularly abuse and damage their own body because it has been deformed by chemical exposure to something they hate living in.

I would hope that getting some vestige of the body they seek resolves many of these body image problems that drive cutting.

Personally, it would mess me up if I was forced to actually grow the tit that started developing when I was younger rather than getting it out when it was just the size of my nipple.

 

[ZiprHead]

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggles to come up with definition of ‘woke’

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggled to define the term “woke” on Tuesday while discussing her new book “Stolen Youth,” which accuses liberals of targeting children with “woke indoctrinatio…

thehill.com

How many differant definitions of "woke" have we been provided by the righties here on this forum? It seems like it's whatever it is they don't like at the moment.

 

[Oleg]

When all you have is a hammer.

The History of Lobotomy

Experts once viewed this controversial procedure as a cure-all for certain mental health conditions.

psychcentral.com

Today, many people widely consider the procedure barbaric and unnecessary.

But experts once believed the lobotomy to be a miracle cure for mental health conditions like:

• treatment-resistant depression
• schizophrenia
• some personality disorders

 

[Oleg]

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggles to come up with definition of ‘woke’

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggled to define the term “woke” on Tuesday while discussing her new book “Stolen Youth,” which accuses liberals of targeting children with “woke indoctrinatio…

thehill.com

How many differant definitions of "woke" have we been provided by the righties here on this forum? It seems like it's whatever it is they don't like at the moment.

Great. The people who can say what a woman is are harping on the definition of Woke.

 

[ZiprHead]

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggles to come up with definition of ‘woke’

Conservative author Bethany Mandel struggled to define the term “woke” on Tuesday while discussing her new book “Stolen Youth,” which accuses liberals of targeting children with “woke indoctrinatio…

thehill.com

How many differant definitions of "woke" have we been provided by the righties here on this forum? It seems like it's whatever it is they don't like at the moment.

Great. The people who can say what a woman is are harping on the definition of Woke.

Governor De Fascist: Florida is where woke goes to die.

X is where women go to die - Said by no one ever.

 

[laughing dog]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

No, we affirm their feeling with psychological treatment, just like we do for transgender children.

You don't tell them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be fixed. That's child abuse.

It would be in the first or second session. But why are you against information and treatment?

Does the informed consent discussion include telling the child they cannot change their sex? Of course, not. Because the affirmation model would never allow that. Are you okay with lying to children?

What are you babbling about with this "lying to children" or "informed consent"? Instead of pulling anecdotes out of your ass, please answer the question that I reworded - Why you against competent medical information and treatment?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Teenager. Obvious cutter. How does the gender cult “treat” her - by cutting her more.

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

Instead of recognizing she might need psychological treatment - like all the teenage cutters in the past - we’ll just jump to the least likely cause and perform the most drastic procedure. It’s like treating an anorexic with fasting.

They don't do such surgery without plenty of talking to mental health people. Why do you deny the possibility that the underlying problem was gender?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Teenager. Obvious cutter. How does the gender cult “treat” her - by cutting her more

You always looking up pics of half naked teens online?

At least now you’re admitting this is happening to adolescents. Can agree this is wrong?

18 is a teen, but legally an adult.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

Cutting is a symptom, not a disorder.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When someone has a mental illness, you don't affirm the illness. You should help them, not hurt them. If a child said they identified as a quadriplegic, do we affirm by severing the spinal cord?

No, we affirm their feeling with psychological treatment, just like we do for transgender children.

You don't tell them that they were born in the wrong body and need to be fixed. That's child abuse.

And your evidence that someone told them they were born in the wrong body is.....?

You seem incapable of comprehending that people can reach that conclusion entirely on their own.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Teenager. Obvious cutter. How does the gender cult “treat” her - by cutting her more.

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

Instead of recognizing she might need psychological treatment - like all the teenage cutters in the past - we’ll just jump to the least likely cause and perform the most drastic procedure. It’s like treating an anorexic with fasting.

How do you know she didn't have psychological treatment? You seem to gain a lot of information from one photograph. Is it a gift you have?

Or just bullshit?

Did you miss the cutting? Have we thrown out all common sense?

No, of course I didn't. Did you miss this?

Does it ever occur to you that perhaps she was a cutter because of her discomfort with her body?

You, as you usually do, make a lot of assumptions that just happen to follow your political views. It's a very convenient way of skipping steps to come to a simple and probably wrong conclusion. But hey, it's not your kid, right. So being wrong is harmless to you. But I'm sure it makes you feel better about yourself though.

I think you are confused about the quoting here. You appear to be replying to my words as if they were his.

 

[Bomb#20]

If the Earth isn't round how can I be here? I have left home going west and returned still going west. Twice.

By that map I'm 3x dead. There isn't a plane in the world that could fly the SFO->AKL leg--nor is there even an AKL to get to. There also isn't a plane that can do BOM->HRE. (However, I won't swear there wasn't a stopover on that flight.) I also count 4 flights that would have been radically longer, as well as 7 overland legs that would have been very noticeable. An 8th involved such bad roads that a deviation in distance wouldn't be so obvious.

I guess I needed to include that emoji. But since you're taking it seriously...

... It should be obvious from the above map that there's some strange law of physics that makes objects get bigger the further they are from the North Pole. It evidently happens to continents; it must also happen to humans and airplanes and flight paths and rulers. A plane consequently goes faster near Auckland than near San Francisco, and further on a tank of avgas.

 

[Bomb#20]

If you aren't trans you're not going to have any interest in transition.
...
The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman.
...
Why would it make her want to be a boy?

I don't know, maybe because being trans would make her one of the cool kids, or because she perceives that boys get treated better than girls, or because she's a depressed alienated teenager and she latched onto it when somebody suggested she might really a boy, or because she's a lesbian and heard that means she has a male brain, or any number of other possibilities. The point is, "The social acceptance of homosexuality doesn't give me the slightest desire to have sex with another man. The social acceptance of transgenderism doesn't give me the slightest desire to be a woman." is a weak argument -- people are all different and they might not think like you'd think when you put yourself in their shoes.

You're basically admitting you have no basis for your position. It's just fear.

I'm basically admitting you made a poor argument. I'm basically admitting you drew a conclusion about a whole subpopulation by inspecting one example who wasn't even drawn from that subpopulation. I'm basically admitting your reliance on armchair science is unwarranted. And I'm basically admitting if your position were correct then it would be a surprising anomaly for detransitioners to exist.

You're the one who made her part of the supposed population.

The "her" in that answer means you didn't understand what I said. The one example whom you inspected and extrapolated to the whole subpopulation from isn't any "her"; it's you yourself. You deduced a characteristic of all members of the "have any interest in transition" subpopulation from the observation that you personally would have to be trans in order to be a member of that subpopulation -- you deduced that all of them would have to be trans to have any interest, merely because you would. That's a Hasty Generalization fallacy.

You aren't showing anyone actually harmed.

So what? I didn't say anyone was harmed. Are we supposed to just automatically accept all claims as true unless they've been shown to be harmful? Does "My pet Spot is a cat; therefore all animals named Spot are cats." become a valid argument if the guy who points out "But my dog is named Spot too." isn't showing anyone would actually be harmed by his dog being a cat?

 

[Jarhyn]

So what? I didn't say anyone was harmed. Are we supposed to just automatically accept all claims as true unless they've been shown to be harmful? Does "My pet Spot is a cat; therefore all animals named Spot are cats." become a valid argument if the guy who points out "But my dog is named Spot too." isn't showing anyone would actually be harmed by his dog being a cat?

The problem here, and it keeps getting pointed out, is that "cat" is an invented category here. The boundaries of cat are arbitrary, even if the circumstances to allow the arbitration to shift are mountainous.

The problem is the fact that we are using "woman" and "man" and the categories aren't actually closed here, so when you say "they are a woman" what you are really doing is using figurative language.

What you are actually doing is replacing simile with a metaphor, ie "that person is LIKE the platonic woman, moreso than they are LIKE the platonic man", never mind that these platonics are created from... You guessed it, an arbitrary population selection.

It's a failure to preserve figurative language, and failing likewise to understand that you are inserting imagination where only mechanism belongs.

The problem is that given how obsessive and absolutist and essentialist people are, especially over gender and sex, people will tend to take offense if you point out something they wish to see as binary all-or-nothing is actually shades of gray; they will shit in your mouth and call you a liar despite the fact that the categories they know they see are as illusory as race.

 

[Toni]

So what? I didn't say anyone was harmed. Are we supposed to just automatically accept all claims as true unless they've been shown to be harmful? Does "My pet Spot is a cat; therefore all animals named Spot are cats." become a valid argument if the guy who points out "But my dog is named Spot too." isn't showing anyone would actually be harmed by his dog being a cat?

The problem here, and it keeps getting pointed out, is that "cat" is an invented category here. The boundaries of cat are arbitrary, even if the circumstances to allow the arbitration to shift are mountainous.

The problem is the fact that we are using "woman" and "man" and the categories aren't actually closed here, so when you say "they are a woman" what you are really doing is using figurative language.

What you are actually doing is replacing simile with a metaphor, ie "that person is LIKE the platonic woman, moreso than they are LIKE the platonic man", never mind that these platonics are created from... You guessed it, an arbitrary population selection.

It's a failure to preserve figurative language, and failing likewise to understand that you are inserting imagination where only mechanism belongs.

The problem is that given how obsessive and absolutist and essentialist people are, especially over gender and sex, people will tend to take offense if you point out something they wish to see as binary all-or-nothing is actually shades of gray; they will shit in your mouth and call you a liar despite the fact that the categories they know they see are as illusory as race.

By your reasoning, all terms and definitions are arbitrarily decided. The 'classic' definition of male and of female is based on easily observed physical characteristics as well as functions. The fact that not all individuals fit neatly into one category or the other does not change this. This holds true even when describing plants and....tools and implements which are sometimes described as having a male end or a female end, depending on which fits into the other. Or at least that was how certain tools and implements were referred to by my father's generation. Not all plants fit into male or female, either. A lot are hermaphrodite, having reproductive structures of both male and female plant.

At the same time, it has been known for millennia that not all individuals fit neatly into male or female. Indeed, as has been mentioned several times in this thread, some cultures had and some still have words to describe such individuals. Those cultures are more wise than western based cultures today, in that respect.

Given the emotional response expressed when say, women must choose whether or not to undergo mastectomy and then whether or not to have 'reconstructive' surgery and the absolute venom with which such topics as circumcision are discussed and debated, it is not surprising that discussing gender reassignment surgery evokes so much emotion. If I were to think about my daughter undergoing a mastectomy, as a treatment for cancer or as a treatment for sex dysmorphia, it would make me ache and provoke tremendous anxiety in me--because I would so much identify with the idea of losing my breasts. If my son were to consider converting to a feminine gender, it would likewise provoke tremendous anxiety as I would so much think about someone hurting my son! in such an intimate way! This is NOT because I would hate the idea of either of them being trans (I would hate the idea of cancer) so much as I am programmed by biology and by years of caring for each of them to want to protect them from hurts and injuries. The response I am describing: aching with anxiety is NOT about whether or not they were confused or wrong about what they wanted to do. And it's not about the emotional right/wrong of what they wanted to do or the societal consequences or the individual societal consequences. It's just flat out: I hate the idea of my child being injured. And surgery IS an injury, however much it is a necessary event for health and happiness and wellbeing. The surgical site is called a wound, after all. There is even a medical specialty for wound care, if wounds are complex or do not heal well.

Of course what I just described is purely emotional but it is emotional on a very deep, primal level. I think that to a certain and lesser extent, it is shared across society for individuals who aren't known to us. Part of me feels extremely upset at the idea that anyone must have themselves surgically altered in order to fit better in with themselves or society.

Which is not to say that I do not support gender affirming care, including surgery. It is, however, an attempt to explain reasons at least some people have such strong negative reactions to the idea.