Happy Birthday!! 4 dead, 20+ injured in ‘Bama.

[Elixir]

Some level of trust is required for the society to function.

True. That's why Trumpist xenophobia is anathema to modern civilization.

 

[Derec]

Your conclusion is based on your unwillingness to consider the truth; Americans want gun control,

Some reasonable gun control, yes, but gun grabbing is not popular.

but a minority party, through aggressive gerrymandering,

Both parties gerrymander.

is in control of one of our houses of Congress, and that party is beholden to the 40% of their members who get their money from (Russia, via) the NRA.

Russia? If anything, politicians like AOC benefit Russian interests, given that reducing US oil and gas production would mean their own reserves are worth more.

If they want to keep control, they must kowtow to MTG, Gym Jordan, Matty Gaetz and the others on the NRA payroll.

And Dems must kowtow to the Squad and older crazies like Barbara Lee and Maxine Waters.
Both sides have the crazy cadre of politicians in safe districts. The real problem (in addition to gerrymandering) is the partisan primaries. I think all states should adopt California's jungle primary - everybody is on the same primary ballot, and the top two go into the general election. Top 4 plus IRV in the general is another system that should be looked at. Both avoid the problem that the less overall popular candidates are in the general election because they are popular with radicals that dominate the primaries on both sides. Buffalo mayoral election is a good example. Dem primary winner was a socialist who was so unpopular with the general electorate that lost in the general to the write-in campaign of the guy she beat in the primary.
As far as gerrymandering, what constitutes fair districting anyway? It may be easy to spot egregious gerrymandering, but how do you select best map among myriad of possible maps that are not overtly gerrymandered? There is no one best solution. I think the best solution is to just get rid of districts altogether and have proportional representation. That would also allow minor parties to be represented without them acting as spoilers.

Perhaps, as a conservative you just can’t see “conservatives” as capable of all this evil. Let me assure you - they are, even if all you Australian conservatives are humanitarian angels.

Partisan demonization on either side is not going to get us anywhere.

 

[Elixir]

Some reasonable gun control, yes, but gun grabbing is not popular.

So what? Neither is murder by boiling people in oil.

Both parties gerrymander.

Both parties try. That doesn't make it ok.

Partisan demonization on either side is not going to get us anywhere.

Then then Republicans will need to evolve past the leadership of a disgraced career conman (an accomplishment in itself), twice impeached, currently indicted, under multiple investigations with pending indictments likely, insurrectionist sociopath.
But that seems too much to ask.

 

[Derec]

Over 70% of Americans want better gun control laws, yet those in the minority have no problem with most anyone, other than felons, owning guns legally. Is it a good idea for an 85 or 90 year old to own a gun?

Depends on the 85 or 90 year old.
93-year-old plumber shoots home intruder, scares off accomplices

I wondered if the racist who shot the young teen was a bit senile.

Why do you think he was necessarily a racist? Just because he shot a black kid does not mean he shot him because he was black.
In North Carolina, a girl and her family were shot because her ball rolled into a neighbor's garden.
The shooter is black, the girl and her family white. Does that mean that he is necessarily a racist then?
Girl, 6, and parents shot after basketball rolls into neighbour’s garden
I wonder if that family will get a phone call from Biden like Yarl got. Or >$3M in GoFundMe donations for that matter.
It certainly is not getting even a fraction of the media attention the Yarl story is getting. I wonder why ...

And, don't even get me to mention the gun show loophole.

Yeah, I think that should be closed.

I once saw a man who looked to be in his 80s, wearing a side arm. He was on 02, and in a wheelchair. Since he had some family members with him, my hope was that they made sure the gun wasn't loaded. But, what if it was? Is it a good idea to have someone like that in possession of a gun?

How do you know he is not capable of using it properly? Presumably, his hands still work.

Or why is it legal in many states for an 18 year old to be in possession of a gun, even when the age he can legally buy it is 21? Our fucking brains aren't even mature until our mid-20s. People from 18 to 25 often do all kinds of crazy risky things.

Generally I do not hold much of legal restrictions on adults based on age. I think drinking age should be lowered too.

It never used to be like this when I was growing up.

Or maybe you did not hear as much because there wasn't the permanent news cycle.

Race doesn't always have a thing to do with this mindless killings.

Indeed not. Even if the shooter and shootee are of different races, we should not automatically assume the shooting was because of race.

This isn't all directed at you Derec.

It's all good!

 

[Rhea]

case.

And what would be so wrong with registration?

Because it's the holy grail of the gun-banners and thus will cause major resistance.

The only people who ever say this are the gun apologists.


It’s not the holy grail of gun banners.
It’s the holy terror of gun fetishists.

The terrified-of-the-world gun fetishists think that if people know they have guns, that it’s inevitable this will lead to their guns being taken.

Dudes. Everyone ALREADY knows you have a gun.
And you spend you life claiming that the fact that you have one (or 200) means you’re too beef for anyone to overcome you.
And then you snivel that if they know your name, your gun will suddenly no onger be able to keep you free.

Rolls eyes.

Gun registration will keep them out of the hands of criminals. By making it harder for straw sales, illegal sales, multiple sales and theft to occur, and by making it easier to identify those who do NOT own the gun they’ve just been caught with.

But the irrational fear of the gun-fetishist makes them into the criminal’s Very Best Ally.

 

[Politesse]

As did every other nation, including Indian tribes. History is often blood-soaked.

Ah, I guess it's fine then.

If I get in my car, I have to trust that most people will obey traffic laws for the most part.

I don't.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So states like Ohio, Wisconsin, and Florida are being run as if they were right-wing totalitarian states, not purple. And the Democrats need to win by a lot more in order to have smaller majorities.

Dems practice gerrymandering too.
Illinois May Be The Worst Democratic Gerrymander In The Country

I mentioned New York in the post that you snipped, the opposite case of Ohio of over-gerrymandering. And the worst gerrymander was in Ohio with the non-contiguous district connecting Toledo with Cleveland. The GOP did step back from their insane Federal redistricting that aimed to effectively have the GOP represent 99% of the state.

 

[Jarhyn]

But the irrational fear of the gun-fetishist makes them into the criminal’s Very Best Ally.

My expectation is that the the majority of gun fetishists are already criminals, specifically selling guns illegally so as to afford their gun collections.

If they were asked to account for their entire collection, could they?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

case.

And what would be so wrong with registration?

Because it's the holy grail of the gun-banners and thus will cause major resistance.

The only people who ever say this are the gun apologists.


It’s not the holy grail of gun banners.
It’s the holy terror of gun fetishists.

The terrified-of-the-world gun fetishists think that if people know they have guns, that it’s inevitable this will lead to their guns being taken.

Dudes. Everyone ALREADY knows you have a gun.
And you spend you life claiming that the fact that you have one (or 200) means you’re too beef for anyone to overcome you.
And then you snivel that if they know your name, your gun will suddenly no onger be able to keep you free.

Rolls eyes.

Gun registration will keep them out of the hands of criminals. By making it harder for straw sales, illegal sales, multiple sales and theft to occur, and by making it easier to identify those who do NOT own the gun they’ve just been caught with.

But the irrational fear of the gun-fetishist makes them into the criminal’s Very Best Ally.

Rhea, I think you misunderstand LP. His point is that we need reform, its just there is nothing we can do to fix the problem. Not that the problem isn't addressable, but our hands are metaphorically tied and arbitrarily at that. Don't you see, even discussing the topic is against the 2nd Amendment?

Look, I've said too much already. We need to move on... it's too early to talk about this stuff... most of the people dying are criminals or committing suicide... if you can't solve it all with one solution it just isn't worth doing... any action is effectively banning guns...

 

[Elixir]

Dems practice gerrymandering too.
Illinois May Be The Worst Democratic Gerrymander In The Country

Looked it up … Illinois, the very worst Dems have done, has a 60% Dem State holding 82% of seats.

There are 10 states that are considered the most gerrymandered: Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah and West Virginia.

Doesn’t even crack the top ten, which is obviously dominated by Derec’s Party. This reveals the despicable dishonesty of the “bothsidesism”.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Dems practice gerrymandering too.
Illinois May Be The Worst Democratic Gerrymander In The Country

Looked it up … Illinois, the very worst Dems have done, has a 60% Dem State holding 82% of seats.

There are 10 states that are considered the most gerrymandered: Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah and West Virginia.

Doesn’t even crack the top ten, which is obviously dominated by Derec’s Party. This reveals the despicable dishonesty of the “bothsidesism”.

Umm... Maryland is a blue state... just saying. It is pretty gerrymandered, but not a lot of seats so it gets overlooked.

 

[Elixir]

Dems practice gerrymandering too.
Illinois May Be The Worst Democratic Gerrymander In The Country

Looked it up … Illinois, the very worst Dems have done, has a 60% Dem State holding 82% of seats.

There are 10 states that are considered the most gerrymandered: Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah and West Virginia.

Doesn’t even crack the top ten, which is obviously dominated by Derec’s Party. This reveals the despicable dishonesty of the “bothsidesism”.

Umm... Maryland is a blue state... just saying. It is pretty gerrymandered, but not a lot of seats so it gets overlooked.

Yes Texas alone disenfranchises more voters than all the Dem States in the top ten combined.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And if memory serves, California is non-partisan redistricting.

 

[Elixir]

And if memory serves, California is non-partisan redistricting.

Yup. If Dems had done in CA what the ‘Pugs did in TX, Dems would own the House right now.

 

[RVonse]

If God had meant for us to have guns, we would have been born with them.

You've left an obvious opening for a joke there, but under the circumstances I'm not in the mood for jest.

When will Americans tire of this?

We both agree there is problem to be addressed the question is how. You want to blanket curtail freedoms for the whole population because of the deviant few. I would rather solve the root source of the issue, suicidal people who do not value their lives or others.

 

[southernhybrid]

Over 70% of Americans want better gun control laws, yet those in the minority have no problem with most anyone, other than felons, owning guns legally. Is it a good idea for an 85 or 90 year old to own a gun?

Depends on the 85 or 90 year old.
93-year-old plumber shoots home intruder, scares off accomplices

I wondered if the racist who shot the young teen was a bit senile.

Why do you think he was necessarily a racist? Just because he shot a black kid does not mean he shot him because he was black.
In North Carolina, a girl and her family were shot because her ball rolled into a neighbor's garden.
The shooter is black, the girl and her family white. Does that mean that he is necessarily a racist then?
Girl, 6, and parents shot after basketball rolls into neighbour’s garden
I wonder if that family will get a phone call from Biden like Yarl got. Or >$3M in GoFundMe donations for that matter.
It certainly is not getting even a fraction of the media attention the Yarl story is getting. I wonder why ...

And, don't even get me to mention the gun show loophole.

Yeah, I think that should be closed.

I once saw a man who looked to be in his 80s, wearing a side arm. He was on 02, and in a wheelchair. Since he had some family members with him, my hope was that they made sure the gun wasn't loaded. But, what if it was? Is it a good idea to have someone like that in possession of a gun?

How do you know he is not capable of using it properly? Presumably, his hands still work.

Or why is it legal in many states for an 18 year old to be in possession of a gun, even when the age he can legally buy it is 21? Our fucking brains aren't even mature until our mid-20s. People from 18 to 25 often do all kinds of crazy risky things.

Generally I do not hold much of legal restrictions on adults based on age. I think drinking age should be lowered too.

It never used to be like this when I was growing up.

Or maybe you did not hear as much because there wasn't the permanent news cycle.

Race doesn't always have a thing to do with this mindless killings.

Indeed not. Even if the shooter and shootee are of different races, we should not automatically assume the shooting was because of race.

This isn't all directed at you Derec.

It's all good!

I never said that all shootings were about racism, but I think it was pretty obvious that the old man who shot the young black man who rang his doorbell appears to have some racist tendencies, based on some of the things he said. He certainly wasn't dealing with a full deck, considering what he did. And, I agree that plenty of black people shoot others, usually black on black crime, often related to gangs. We even have some of that problem in my small city, although so far, nobody has shot anyone for driving up the wrong driveway or ringing a doorbell at night. Plus, black males are perfectly safe walking through my neighborhood. They are good people and some of them are my neighbors. The gang problem is on the poor side of town, which is mostly black.


Yesterday, I had a conversation about all of this with a lovely, young Black woman in my doctor's office, who was originally from Jamaica. She agreed that a lot of the problem was black on black crime but some of it was racist, and some of it was just crazy nuts who shoot people for no good reason. So, not everyone on the Left is claiming that all of this is about racism. It has nothing to do with "wokeness". It's just getting a bit scary going out and wondering if someone is going to go on a shooting rage or shoot you because you cut them off in traffic etc.

Btw, for those who don't know it, I looked up the percentages of gun owners based on race. 35% of white people in the US own guns and 23% of black people own guns. The last time I went to the shooting range with my husband and brother in law, we were the only white people there. I no longer target shoot because I'm disgusted with guns. I just went with them to have lunch out and socialize. I would never try to use a gun for protection, but I sometimes would target shoot as a social thing when I was younger. At the very least, I wish there wa a requirement to take a gun safety course before one could legally own a gun.

My bro in law, who is a semi retired dentist, has recently decided to purchase a gun. He's in his 60s and had never had owned before. I think he was influenced by his girlfriend who is from a rural area and is only about 40. It seemed like a macho thing to me, but I'm pretty sure my bro in law won't shoot anyone who rings his doorbell or cuts him off in traffic. I still think it's weird that a 66 year old man has suddenly developed an interest in guns. Imo, he just wanted to fit in with his new friends. That's the crazy world we live in these days. Gun ownership has become contagious.

I still strongly disagree with you when it comes to very old frail people owning guns. You didn't see the old guy with the gun, who was very dependent and frail wearing a side iron. A person like that could easily have his gun taken and used on himself. As I said, it's possible that he family made sure the gun wasn't loaded. I would have been very concerned if my late father had owned a gun when he was in his 80s. My mom would have been totally freaked out if there was a gun in their home.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If God had meant for us to have guns, we would have been born with them.

You've left an obvious opening for a joke there, but under the circumstances I'm not in the mood for jest.

When will Americans tire of this?

We both agree there is problem to be addressed the question is how. You want to blanket curtail freedoms for the whole population because of the deviant few. I would rather solve the root source of the issue, suicidal people who do not value their lives or others.

People take off their shoes before boarding a fucking airplane and attacks using or on airplanes is extraordinarily rare.

The solution via dealing with the root cause... would involve stop selling guns to homicidal people.

 

[ZiprHead]

If God had meant for us to have guns, we would have been born with them.

You've left an obvious opening for a joke there, but under the circumstances I'm not in the mood for jest.

When will Americans tire of this?

We both agree there is problem to be addressed the question is how. You want to blanket curtail freedoms for the whole population because of the deviant few. I would rather solve the root source of the issue, suicidal people who do not value their lives or others.

And your suggestion on how to do this is what?

 

[Elixir]

You want to blanket curtail freedoms for the whole population because of the deviant few.

Sorta like how Republicans want to control the reproductive rights of women because of … oh, right. that’s all on the RW politicians and their religious superstitions. My bad.

I would rather solve the root source of the issue, suicidal people who do not value their lives or others.

Yeah. How did they get that way? Probably from being terrorized by right wing media scare tactics designed to make them think half the Country is cannibalistic lizard people selling baby meat out of pizzeria basements.

 

[Gun Nut]

Doesn't work. As it stands it's possible to die from a bullet that was stopped by your "bulletproof" vest. If you reflect the bullet you double the energy.

If you reflect a bullet (at almost the same speed) you need to transfer almost twice the momentum to yourself. But the energy will be less since energy is a scalar and most of it will stay with the bullet. Now, bullets are relatively soft, so they will not deflect (nearly) elastically anyway. You can still keep most of the kinetic energy with the bullet, but only for very shallow angles. If your "hard vest" is hit perpendicular to surface, I do not see it bouncing off very fast if at all. And you would need such a head on hit to send the bullet "back to sender" and not just in a more of less random direction where it could hit an innocent bystander.

You're thinking in 3 dimensions.
Edited: Actually, 2.