China Prepares for War - Our Response?

[SLD]

Where would that war be? We are not going to invade China and vice versa.

I do not think we shoud interfere in Riawn. Officaly Taiwn has no international status and I believe China may have a legal claim to Taiwan.

China is irrational. They made a tremendous leap out of the Maoist chaos by opening up to western investment and trade.

Now they want to risk that for what amounts to 19th 20th century imperialism and colonialism that led to WWII.

China has shot at Philippine fishing boats in international waters.

Correction: Taiwan has a legal claim on China.

China/Taiwan is an unresolved civil war in which the original government is now in Taiwan.

Technically. But you’re ignoring that for 75 years they’ve been independent. They are de facto a separate nation. Even if no one recognizes it de jure.

 

[Harry Bosch]

China has been harassing Philippine fising vessels. Shootng at and hitting with water hoses. PI ran a ship aground on a reef to claim onership of the waters around. I think Norway did sometng simiar with a rock in the Atlantic.

China has played chicken with our Navy and planes. My guess is at the top the CCP has hyped itself into a kind of ideological frenzy.

Back in the 90s for our annual Sea Fair event a Chinese destroyer tied up in Everett. I walked through.

At the gangplank were two grim looking Chinese with AK47s at the ready fingers on the trigger. Never forgot the image. I think that represents China's attitude towards us and the world.

Read up on Chinese history and its relationship to the West. Read up on the Opium War, Boxer Rebellions, and the US "support" of China while they were getting slaughtered by Japan.

China's distaste for the West didn't just happen. Our involvement with their nation is so disturbing we don't teach it in school. We gave them a lot of our production, openly. And not because we gave a fuck, because we wanted to outsource our pollution. And now we paint them as the bad guy for stealing our jobs?!

Why should China care about us or have any semblance of empathy towards the West? China isn't a collective of angels, but we abused that nation for over a century.

I know that and you know that, but or politicians do not think historically. We did not learn from VN, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Over the last 20 years the mantra has been 'we wnat a level playing field' as if China gves a shit about western values of rule of law, fair play and competition.

Under our paradigm of profit and no restrictions on capital movement American busness went headlong into China.

Our foreign policy is make the world safe for America busness. What is good for busness is good for Amercan. Jobs said explicitly 'Apple will never bring manufacturing back to America'.


Ted Kopple did a series from China. In one epse he is inerviewing a top Chines auto executve. Kopell asks about theft of intectual property. The Chibes points to a car on an assembly line and said 'If we can;t get a transmission from an Amercan car w';ll get one from somebody else'.

They are blatant about it.

To manufacture in China they required teaching Chinese about the technology. A European wind turbibe company built a plant in China. China in turn copied it asd started a comany to compete.

Finally we are hearing politicians say China is our enemy and they are eating our lunch. No shit Sherlock.

How is China "eating our lunch'? Their economy is in the toilet. Record unemployment. No growth.

 

[bilby]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

 

[SLD]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

Yes they are. There are international IP treaties that protect such property and China, being a member of the WTO is part of those.

 

[TomC]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

I cannot be the only person who finds it bizarrely hypocritical for U.S. business interests to complain about unfair treatment by foreign people and governments.
Seriously?!?

Tom

ETA ~This reminds me of a current phenomenon in USA culture. WASP, straight, males complaining that they're the only people it's legal to discriminate against.
Whaa!
Whaa!
~

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

I cannot be the only person who finds it bizarrely hypocritical for U.S. business interests to complain about unfair treatment by foreign people and governments.
Seriously?!?

It isn't just the US, the EU has raised concerns as well. China is notorious for this sort of thing. All nations want to protect their companies and production, China has a tendency of coloring well outside the lines though.

 

[TomC]

It isn't just the US, the EU has raised concerns as well. China is notorious for this sort of thing. All nations want to protect their companies and production, China has a tendency of coloring well outside the lines though.

OK.
I'll expand my comment a bit.

Listening to people from the EuroColonialist world complain about "The Unfairness of Human Society" is bizarrely hypocritical.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

It isn't just the US, the EU has raised concerns as well. China is notorious for this sort of thing. All nations want to protect their companies and production, China has a tendency of coloring well outside the lines though.

OK.
I'll expand my comment a bit.

Listening to people from the EuroColonialist world complain about "The Unfairness of Human Society" is bizarrely hypocritical.
Tom

No one is complaining about the "Unfairness of Human Society". They are pointing out that a nation is not abiding by its agreement.

 

[TomC]

No one is complaining about the "Unfairness of Human Society". They are pointing out that a nation is not abiding by its agreement.

That's kinda what I said.

EuroColonialists countries, like the EU and USA have been making and breaking agreements for centuries.

Now it's in their interests to complain about it so they are.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It isn't just the US, the EU has raised concerns as well. China is notorious for this sort of thing. All nations want to protect their companies and production, China has a tendency of coloring well outside the lines though.

OK.
I'll expand my comment a bit.

Listening to people from the EuroColonialist world complain about "The Unfairness of Human Society" is bizarrely hypocritical.
Tom

Japan too?

Japan may effectively shut off China from supplying drones to its government to protect sensitive information, according to six people in government and the ruling party familiar with the matter, as part of a broad effort to bolster national security.

This isn't some secret.

Japan has told the World Trade Organisation it will join the United States’ complaint against China over alleged theft of intellectual property as a third party, a source close to the matter said on Friday.

This doesn't make China the boogie man, as some want to portray them as. But when it comes to IP theft, there is consensus in the first world nations that China violates this quite a bit.

 

[laughing dog]

No one is complaining about the "Unfairness of Human Society". They are pointing out that a nation is not abiding by its agreement.

That's kinda what I said.

EuroColonialists countries, like the EU and USA have been making and breaking agreements for centuries.

Now it's in their interests to complain about it so they are.
Tom

It is always in the interests of the aggrieved to complain about infractions. That is nothing to do with the "Unfairness of Human Society". It is both common sense and human nature especially since all countries all over the world have been breaking their word for centuries. Why anyone would single out a particular region or group is rather curious.

 

[TomC]

It isn't just the US, the EU has raised concerns as well. China is notorious for this sort of thing. All nations want to protect their companies and production, China has a tendency of coloring well outside the lines though.

OK.
I'll expand my comment a bit.

Listening to people from the EuroColonialist world complain about "The Unfairness of Human Society" is bizarrely hypocritical.
Tom

Japan too?

Japan may effectively shut off China from supplying drones to its government to protect sensitive information, according to six people in government and the ruling party familiar with the matter, as part of a broad effort to bolster national security.

This isn't some secret.

Japan has told the World Trade Organisation it will join the United States’ complaint against China over alleged theft of intellectual property as a third party, a source close to the matter said on Friday.

This doesn't make China the boogie man, as some want to portray them as. But when it comes to IP theft, there is consensus in the first world nations that China violates this quite a bit.

I'm not talking about Japan.
Tom

 

[TomC]

No one is complaining about the "Unfairness of Human Society". They are pointing out that a nation is not abiding by its agreement.

That's kinda what I said.

EuroColonialists countries, like the EU and USA have been making and breaking agreements for centuries.

Now it's in their interests to complain about it so they are.
Tom

It is always in the interests of the aggrieved to complain about infractions. That is nothing to do with the "Unfairness of Human Society". It is both common sense and human nature.

Which includes a great deal of profound hypocrisy, which is what I was referring to.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm not talking about Japan.
Tom

Yes, that was the point. That First World nations across the globe, in general, have a problem with China's theft of IP. You are concentrating on Western ones for some reason. This isn't about the generalized effort of nations to protect internal interests, but blatant IP theft.

 

[laughing dog]

No one is complaining about the "Unfairness of Human Society". They are pointing out that a nation is not abiding by its agreement.

That's kinda what I said.

EuroColonialists countries, like the EU and USA have been making and breaking agreements for centuries.

Now it's in their interests to complain about it so they are.
Tom

It is always in the interests of the aggrieved to complain about infractions. That is nothing to do with the "Unfairness of Human Society". It is both common sense and human nature.

Which includes a great deal of profound hypocrisy, which is what I was referring to.
Tom

It would be hypocritical if the complainers denied ever doing that same thing. Is that the case here? If not, your comments are simply irrelevant.

 

[bilby]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

Yes they are. There are international IP treaties that protect such property and China, being a member of the WTO is part of those.

Powerful countries ignoring their obligations to the WTO is so routine as to be unremarkable.

What possible consequences could be imposed on China for these actions, that wouldn't hurt those attempting to impose them even more than it hurts China?

Is the USA seriously going to contemplate a war (or even a trade war) for such trivial reasons?

 

[Gospel]

Ahh, China – that 'minor' detail Obama hoped the TPP would sort out eventually. Because, of course, America's hands are totally tied when it comes to China.

 

[Harry Bosch]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

Yes they are. There are international IP treaties that protect such property and China, being a member of the WTO is part of those.

Powerful countries ignoring their obligations to the WTO is so routine as to be unremarkable.

What possible consequences could be imposed on China for these actions, that wouldn't hurt those attempting to impose them even more than it hurts China?

Is the USA seriously going to contemplate a war (or even a trade war) for such trivial reasons?

Whoa! Who said war over China stealing our IP?? We are decoupling from China because they steal our IP. Big difference.

 

[SLD]

theft of intectual property

Intellectual Property doesn't exist unless the government in a given jurisdiction says it does.

Chinese businesses copying western designs without breaking Chinese laws are not engaging in theft of anything.

The US Government doesn't have the power or the jurisdiction to enforce US Patents in China; If the Chinese government can't or won't do so on their behalf, the US is completely at liberty to cry into their beer.

Yes they are. There are international IP treaties that protect such property and China, being a member of the WTO is part of those.

Powerful countries ignoring their obligations to the WTO is so routine as to be unremarkable.

What possible consequences could be imposed on China for these actions, that wouldn't hurt those attempting to impose them even more than it hurts China?

Is the USA seriously going to contemplate a war (or even a trade war) for such trivial reasons?

No. But we will decouple our economy from them. And that could lead to war. We would go to war if they attacked us or our allies. Or possibly if they attack Taiwan.

If they do attack Taiwan, we at least should use the SWIFT nuclear response.

 

[bilby]

If they do attack Taiwan, we at least should use the SWIFT nuclear response.

Swift was a failed thermonuclear artillery shell tested in the Redwing Yuma shot at Eniwetok Atoll in May 1956. The fission stage was of insufficient yield to ignite the fusion boost stage. Its design was redeveloped as the basis for the successful W54 nuclear artillery shell.

I do not recommend using these against China, unless they use nuclear weapons first.

I also do not recommend using the word "nuclear" as a hyperbolic description of a mere economic sanction. It's possibility of causing dangerous misunderstandings is too high.