How can you say that all environments are equal when they behave completely different?

[Elixir]

I'm still trying to figure out who are the "you" that "say that all environments are equal". What does it even mean by "all environments are equal"?

The heat death of the universe of will occur in around 1.7×10^106 years, if protons decay. At that point all environments will be equal.
But as long as there are people around to complain about people saying all environments are equal, their hot air will serve as proof that we’re not there yet.
It might not be urgent, but it’s still good to be reminded.

 

[pood]

I'm still trying to figure out who are the "you" that "say that all environments are equal". What does it even mean by "all environments are equal"?

He says it very clearly in the last two paragraphs of his OS (opening screed): why should he, as a “public servant,” treat equally schools that offend him (“accusing” him of being gay, having “ghetto” kids), and nice, lily-white private schools where everyone behaves so nice, especially to him, according to him? So, as a “public servant,” he would refuse to serve the public, but kowtow to the private sphere where people are like him. As I said, a perfect Republican.

 

[steve_bank]

Well nighthawk, as the saying goes life is not fair. It is not just gays, I think most of us in the real world find contractions and inconsistency.
You can drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize all of it.

How you deal with it as a private citizen and as a politician should be be two different things. An Evangelical may hate gays but if is fair minded would support the rights of gays. It is rare but I have heard it from Evangelicals.

People choose schools because environments are different. Catholic, Mormon, Jewish, and Evangelical schools are likely markedly different.

Republican Christians only want one environment in public schools. No room for anything else. If they had their way.

Pete Buttigieg a married gay Christian man was in militray intelligence ad became a successful politician.

Private schools set their own policies. Here in Seattle there have been issues with a Catholic college not hiring gays.

State government sets public college policy. Local school boards set primary school polices.

There is plenty of legislation, policies. and laws protecting students in public schools. And there are still eer issues with gay students being harassed. Here in western Washington it is not just about gays. Sexual abuse and violence against female students has become an issue as has student violence in general.

I just do not see more legislation having any impact.

 

[NightHawkBuzz]

I wonder what you mean by treating two different situations/environments "equally". Does that mean funding only in the case of schools or does it mean that laws/policy are the same for all public schools (or all schools)?

I ask because it sounds to me as if you are confusing the behavior of people - which is subject to any relevant laws - with the atmosphere of the school.

Here is a pro-tip - referring to people as "ghetto" may raise unnecessary hackles. To many observers, it implies something racial. So unless you mean something racial, it is better to be more specific as to the type of behavior you wish to describe.

No I don’t mean ghetto as a racial thing there were many white people and other races there who acted poor.

So no I didn’t mean ghetto in a racial way because there were white people there who acted bad as well.

The behavior I am talking about are things like
1. Fights breaking out every single day in the classroom.

2. There was chaos in the classroom constantly

3. The teachers had no control over the class and the security would have to come to break up fights that would happen.

4. The kids there were extremely disrespectful so the whole culture of the school was about talking about everyone’s sexuality and I had to deal with my sexuality being talked about as well as every other person.

5. Also many of the kids that went to the school where extremely aggressive, confrontational and ready to start a fight. This is the type of school where many of the peoples behavior STARTS the conflict and is the reason the conflict happened in the first place.

I personally know because I witnessed it myself going their firsthand from my experience.

When I mean treat them equally I mean it by two things.

1. Putting in money to invest in protecting a public arts schools equally just like you would a private high school or other public school when this public arts high school is absolutely horrible in the way it behaves.

Why would I want to invest money in protecting a bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to in private schools and public schools when that arts school behaves horribly?

2. Also I said I supported the death penalty which I do but this is the type of environment where some of the victims start the conflict when certain people in schools like this are agreessive, confrontational and initiate fights with people.

This is the type of school where some peoples behavior literally initates fights with other people. I would feel uncomfortable carrying out a death sentence for someone who was defending themselves from the actions of the victim who provoked and initiated them to fight.

So if a situation happened like this I would feel uncomfortable doing it from my own experience.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

No I don’t mean ghetto as a racial thing there were many white people and other races there who acted poor.

So like rich white kids with thousand dollar jeans with holes in them???

 

[Elixir]

I wonder what you mean by treating two different situations/environments "equally". Does that mean funding only in the case of schools or does it mean that laws/policy are the same for all public schools (or all schools)?

I ask because it sounds to me as if you are confusing the behavior of people - which is subject to any relevant laws - with the atmosphere of the school.

Here is a pro-tip - referring to people as "ghetto" may raise unnecessary hackles. To many observers, it implies something racial. So unless you mean something racial, it is better to be more specific as to the type of behavior you wish to describe.

No I don’t mean ghetto as a racial thing there were many white people and other races there who acted poor.

So no I didn’t mean ghetto in a racial way because there were white people there who acted bad as well.

The behavior I am talking about are things like
1. Fights breaking out every single day in the classroom.

2. There was chaos in the classroom constantly

3. The teachers had no control over the class and the security would have to come to break up fights that would happen.

4. The kids there were extremely disrespectful so the whole culture of the school was about talking about everyone’s sexuality and I had to deal with my sexuality being talked about as well as every other person.

5. Also many of the kids that went to the school where extremely aggressive, confrontational and ready to start a fight. This is the type of school where many of the peoples behavior STARTS the conflict and is the reason the conflict happened in the first place.

I personally know because I witnessed it myself going their firsthand from my experience.

When I mean treat them equally I mean it by two things.

1. Putting in money to invest in protecting a public arts schools equally just like you would a private high school or other public school when this public arts high school is absolutely horrible in the way it behaves.

Why would I want to invest money in protecting a bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to in private schools and public schools when that arts school behaves horribly?

2. Also I said I supported the death penalty which I do but this is the type of environment where some of the victims start the conflict when certain people in schools like this are agreessive, confrontational and initiate fights with people.

This is the type of school where some peoples behavior literally initates fights with other people. I would feel uncomfortable carrying out a death sentence for someone who was defending themselves from the actions of the victim who provoked and initiated them to fight.

So if a situation happened like this I would feel uncomfortable doing it from my own experience.

Sounds like you might have had some special needs?
“Schools like this” must be a subset of schools, anyhow. It is unlikely that you will ever get funding earmarked for your retributory discipline agenda for “schools like this”.
You’re pretty preoccupied with schools, Buzz. Why don’t you start your meteoric ascent to the presidency by trying to become a Principle? It would make a good qualification for President.
If you can’t do that, you certainly aren’t going to magically get elected president of anything.

 

[laughing dog]

I wonder what you mean by treating two different situations/environments "equally". Does that mean funding only in the case of schools or does it mean that laws/policy are the same for all public schools (or all schools)?

I ask because it sounds to me as if you are confusing the behavior of people - which is subject to any relevant laws - with the atmosphere of the school.

Here is a pro-tip - referring to people as "ghetto" may raise unnecessary hackles. To many observers, it implies something racial. So unless you mean something racial, it is better to be more specific as to the type of behavior you wish to describe.

No I don’t mean ghetto as a racial thing there were many white people and other races there who acted poor.

So no I didn’t mean ghetto in a racial way because there were white people there who acted bad as well.

The behavior I am talking about are things like
1. Fights breaking out every single day in the classroom.

2. There was chaos in the classroom constantly

3. The teachers had no control over the class and the security would have to come to break up fights that would happen.

4. The kids there were extremely disrespectful so the whole culture of the school was about talking about everyone’s sexuality and I had to deal with my sexuality being talked about as well as every other person.

5. Also many of the kids that went to the school where extremely aggressive, confrontational and ready to start a fight. This is the type of school where many of the peoples behavior STARTS the conflict and is the reason the conflict happened in the first place.

I personally know because I witnessed it myself going their firsthand from my experience.

When I mean treat them equally I mean it by two things.

1. Putting in money to invest in protecting a public arts schools equally just like you would a private high school or other public school when this public arts high school is absolutely horrible in the way it behaves.

Why would I want to invest money in protecting a bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to in private schools and public schools when that arts school behaves horribly?

If we are talking about public money. I see no reason to invest public funds into private schools.

I don’t know what you mean about “ protecting” a school, but I think the children in a public school deserve as good as an education as possible regardless of the misbehaviour of some of the student body.

2. Also I said I supported the death penalty which I do but this is the type of environment where some of the victims start the conflict when certain people in schools like this are agreessive, confrontational and initiate fights with people.

This is the type of school where some peoples behavior literally initates fights with other people. I would feel uncomfortable carrying out a death sentence for someone who was defending themselves from the actions of the victim who provoked and initiated them to fight.

So if a situation happened like this I would feel uncomfortable doing it from my own experience.

I don’t understand how the death penalty relates to anything here. Certainly implementing the death penalty over fights seems over- reacting to me.

Presumably there are laws already on the book on murder, man slaughter, etc.,., so I don’t see what your dilemma is

 

[NightHawkBuzz]

I'm still trying to figure out who are the "you" that "say that all environments are equal". What does it even mean by "all environments are equal"?

He says it very clearly in the last two paragraphs of his OS (opening screed): why should he, as a “public servant,” treat equally schools that offend him (“accusing” him of being gay, having “ghetto” kids), and nice, lily-white private schools where everyone behaves so nice, especially to him, according to him? So, as a “public servant,” he would refuse to serve the public, but kowtow to the private sphere where people are like him. As I said, a perfect Republican.

It had nothing to do with race because their were ghetto white people there to.

But truth is the truth about the differences in behave whether you wanna accept it or not.

 

[Patooka]

I'm still trying to figure out who are the "you" that "say that all environments are equal". What does it even mean by "all environments are equal"?

He says it very clearly in the last two paragraphs of his OS (opening screed): why should he, as a “public servant,” treat equally schools that offend him (“accusing” him of being gay, having “ghetto” kids), and nice, lily-white private schools where everyone behaves so nice, especially to him, according to him? So, as a “public servant,” he would refuse to serve the public, but kowtow to the private sphere where people are like him. As I said, a perfect Republican.

It had nothing to do with race because their were ghetto white people there to.

But truth is the truth about the differences in behave whether you wanna accept it or not.

Before you start being an advocate for schools may I suggest you actually go to one to learn about homophones?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wonder what you mean by treating two different situations/environments "equally". Does that mean funding only in the case of schools or does it mean that laws/policy are the same for all public schools (or all schools)?

I ask because it sounds to me as if you are confusing the behavior of people - which is subject to any relevant laws - with the atmosphere of the school.

Here is a pro-tip - referring to people as "ghetto" may raise unnecessary hackles. To many observers, it implies something racial. So unless you mean something racial, it is better to be more specific as to the type of behavior you wish to describe.

No I don’t mean ghetto as a racial thing there were many white people and other races there who acted poor.

So no I didn’t mean ghetto in a racial way because there were white people there who acted bad as well.

The behavior I am talking about are things like
1. Fights breaking out every single day in the classroom.

2. There was chaos in the classroom constantly

3. The teachers had no control over the class and the security would have to come to break up fights that would happen.

4. The kids there were extremely disrespectful so the whole culture of the school was about talking about everyone’s sexuality and I had to deal with my sexuality being talked about as well as every other person.

5. Also many of the kids that went to the school where extremely aggressive, confrontational and ready to start a fight. This is the type of school where many of the peoples behavior STARTS the conflict and is the reason the conflict happened in the first place.

I personally know because I witnessed it myself going their firsthand from my experience.

Did you also witness the poverty first hand? You seem to be surprised that adolescents and teens that are raised in constant state of stress regarding food, housing, unstable homes, violence... aren't in the best shape to learn. Odd that poverty breeds poverty, desperation breeds desperate decisions. Shocking! Is the point we need to further abandon a population the US has intentionally neglected for over a century?

When I mean treat them equally I mean it by two things.

1. Putting in money to invest in protecting a public arts schools equally just like you would a private high school or other public school when this public arts high school is absolutely horrible in the way it behaves.

Why would I want to invest money in protecting a bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to in private schools and public schools when that arts school behaves horribly?

You don't want to invest money in them. Let's make that perfectly clear. Investing money will be a losing investment for you. It'll take too long to see the benefits, it'll take generations. You don't erase the impact of a century of neglect with a check for $1 billion. How do you seriously intend to govern if you don't even understand any basics in sociology, and lack a great deal of empathy?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Anyway, what do you mean by treating the two environments as equal? You pointed out a difference but you didn't tie it to your question. There's always a difference (exclusion principle--can't have two things in the same place), the only question is how big and how relevant.

I mean treating the two environments as equal as in when I run as a politician one of my goals is to protect schools private and public. But how can I feel the same way about public schools as I do private schools when it comes to wanting to protect both equally since I have had two completely different experiences in both?

Protect them from what?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here's my experience: when I was in grade school, I used to get beat up and bullied all the time (always by multiple kids at once) and wouldn't you know it, their parents were very conservative white people, living in the better part of town. Meanwhile, I was on welfare and my mother was getting food stamps and I was wearing clothes from, I-don't-know-where, hand me downs from an in-law or the Salvation Army or what. I actually went to many different schools and had different experiences, but fast forward to high school, the main high school I attended had many ghetto people and no one bullied me ever....there was "ranking on" each other that was quite common, there was only really one time where someone wanted to fight me but he was mentally ill and a Jamaican student, friend of mine--very nice guy--helped me get out of that situation. It was a very safe, intellectual, hard-working environment even though many of the kids were from poor and middle class backgrounds.

Yup, somewhat different experience. Beat up by the bullies multiple times. IIRC the ringleaders were Hispanic but just about all the rest were white.

I only knew one set of the parents--I don't know their politics but based on what I saw I would think conservative. They would beat their kids if they caught them doing wrong, but categorically would not believe anyone else's statement about their kids doing wrong. (To the point that once the police got involved--and the officer already knew I had done no wrong even before he came over to talk to me. I was acting in self defense when I disarmed them of a belt and had no opportunity to have taken the buckle before yeeting it off scene--the belt ended up where I aimed, the buckle nowhere to be found. The parents still thought I had stolen it.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And as for public schools, they're all about exclusion. One of our local roads has a public school district boundary running right down the middle. Each school half its kids go to excludes the kids on the other side of the street. Kids aren't allowed to go to the same school as their friends and neighbors; kids on one side get a school bus and kids on the other side have to be driven to school every day by their parents. Our whole community turned out to a public meeting to get this fixed, to ask for a change to the rules so half a dozen children could go to a school that worked better for them and their families. The meeting was eye-opening. It quickly became clear that not only did the school authorities not give a rat's ass about those kids' problems, neither did most of the public at the meeting. The absolutely only thing any of them gave a damn about was if those few kids changed school then the money from the state would follow them to the new school so the school they'd be leaving would get a little less funding. That school had political pull and the school the families wanted to switch to didn't, so the school they wanted to switch to was ordered to continue excluding them.

Unfortunately, such divisions are necessary. If you let them go wherever they want you'll find the apparently better schools getting overwhelmed.

The grade school I went to drew from approximately a square mile bounded by major streets--a very logical boundary because it meant there was no need to cross big streets and the half-mile streets had a crossing guard. I only know one of the boundaries of the high school, it was the half-main street that went through said square mile, it did involve crossing a major street to get to the high school. The division was very fortunate for me as the ringleaders of the bullies both lived on the other side of that boundary and I had absolutely zero bully problems in high school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When I mean treat them equally I mean it by two things.

1. Putting in money to invest in protecting a public arts schools equally just like you would a private high school or other public school when this public arts high school is absolutely horrible in the way it behaves.

Actually, we tend to put about equal amounts of money in in most places.

Why would I want to invest money in protecting a bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to in private schools and public schools when that arts school behaves horribly?

Protecting it from what?

2. Also I said I supported the death penalty which I do but this is the type of environment where some of the victims start the conflict when certain people in schools like this are agreessive, confrontational and initiate fights with people.

This is the type of school where some peoples behavior literally initates fights with other people. I would feel uncomfortable carrying out a death sentence for someone who was defending themselves from the actions of the victim who provoked and initiated them to fight.

So if a situation happened like this I would feel uncomfortable doing it from my own experience.

Why would the death penalty even be an issue in self defense? In general, if it's clear enough you're not even charged--although some liberal areas have a reputation for charging pretty clear cases as anti-gun harassment. If it's not so clear it goes to trial.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It had nothing to do with race because their were ghetto white people there to.

But truth is the truth about the differences in behave whether you wanna accept it or not.

Ghetto is ghetto regardless of skin color.

 

[steve_bank]

nighthawk

If you don't mind would you answer a few questions?

What if any is your religious affiliation?
What is your sexual orientation?(none of my business, but I am trying to build a picture of you)
Do you hold any elected office or are you actually running for one?
What do you mean when you say ghetto? It is generally considered a pejorative.

Imagine you are running a campaign and I am interviewing you....

 

[Ford]

I'm still trying to figure out who are the "you" that "say that all environments are equal". What does it even mean by "all environments are equal"?

He says it very clearly in the last two paragraphs of his OS (opening screed): why should he, as a “public servant,” treat equally schools that offend him (“accusing” him of being gay, having “ghetto” kids), and nice, lily-white private schools where everyone behaves so nice, especially to him, according to him? So, as a “public servant,” he would refuse to serve the public, but kowtow to the private sphere where people are like him. As I said, a perfect Republican.

It had nothing to do with race because their were ghetto white people there to.

But truth is the truth about the differences in behave whether you wanna accept it or not.

Just over 30 years ago I moved to a city where I was a bit out of place, to put it mildly. Yes, there was a racial component, a language barrier, and at first the "locals" looked askance at me. When I got the job there, someone literally asked the boss "hey, why'd you hire that white boy?"

I wound up becoming (if I may brag a bit) the co-host of the most popular English-speaking morning radio show in the city. How? Because I figured out a few things pretty early on in the process. A big one was never trying to be something I was not. I didn't walk up to people of a different color/race/ethnicity and say "yo, what up dog?" I didn't go into the neighborhoods and try to be "ghetto." When I started to hang out in the gay community (because of the girlfriend I had at the time) I didn't try to "fit in" by adopting their mannerisms and being like "you go girl!" I was just myself. Treating people equally is not hard. Be yourself and meet them where they are.

When you drop your prejudices, you find out that people aren't really all that different.

 

[TomC]

bad ghetto poor public arts school equally like I want to

Seriously?
What does ghetto public arts even mean?

If there are problems with a particular school, address those.
Tom

 

[Rhea]

Because,

1. ...
2. Private schools are private. What would you legislate? Are you saying to want to give public money to a private school that can exclude people within its district? Wouldn’t that violate your oath of office and demonstrate that you literally do not intend to serve the public?
3. You want to run as a politician planning to protect private schools? Are you also planning to protect private corporations? And follow-up, WHY? Why do you not want to serve the public? The overwhelming defining characteristic of all private schools is that they exclude members of the public that they don’t like. You’re wanting to run for public office with that being your brand? “I want to spend public taxpayer money on institutions that exclude some of those taxpayers! You pay, but we prevent you from playing. Woot.”

About 90% of what government does is spend public taxpayer money on institutions that exclude some of those taxpayers. Social Security excludes the under-65. Medicaid excludes the non-impoverished. Public universities exclude people with low test scores and school grades. The Veterans Admin excludes civilians. Public employee pensions exclude the entire private sector. Interest on the national debt excludes everyone who didn't lend the government money. What, if a politician spends money on a battered-women's shelter he's violating his oath of office by not serving men?!?

And as for public schools, they're all about exclusion. One of our local roads has a public school district boundary running right down the middle. Each school half its kids go to excludes the kids on the other side of the street. Kids aren't allowed to go to the same school as their friends and neighbors; kids on one side get a school bus and kids on the other side have to be driven to school every day by their parents. Our whole community turned out to a public meeting to get this fixed, to ask for a change to the rules so half a dozen children could go to a school that worked better for them and their families. The meeting was eye-opening. It quickly became clear that not only did the school authorities not give a rat's ass about those kids' problems, neither did most of the public at the meeting. The absolutely only thing any of them gave a damn about was if those few kids changed school then the money from the state would follow them to the new school so the school they'd be leaving would get a little less funding. That school had political pull and the school the families wanted to switch to didn't, so the school they wanted to switch to was ordered to continue excluding them.

K-12 Schooling is mandatory, unlike all of the others you mention. So there’s that. And neither soc sec nor medicaid is being diminished to support private alternatives through legislation such as that to which Buzz is alluding. Unless - well, maybe he wants to do that, too. Taxpayer funded insurance for those he likes and not for those he doesn’t like. Soc Sec for the good people, but not for those he considers “ghetto.” You could ask him. Maybe he does plan that.

And all of those kids get to go to a public school somewhere, and the dividing line has to happen somewhere. That said, I completely agree with your community about not splitting up a neighborhood, sounds like they have a perfectly valid gripe. Our school district carves out a couple of neighborhoods in adjacent towns for excatly that reason - the neighborhood straddles the town line and the school district endeavored to keep them all together.

 

[Rhea]

He shouldn't be wishing me to fail at my career though that's wrong as hell and if someone does that I am going to tell them off.

Buzz, can I suggest that you are wishing yourself to fail at your own career choice by ignoring the people who have advised you to avoid the word “ghetto” because it is a racialized perjorative? And Instead you double-down and say there are “white ghetto” people there, too.

Buzz, for example your continued interjection of the death penalty in all these conversations. YIKERS! You think about that way too much in an extremely unhealthy way. You could consider, instead of “telling him off,” asking why he finds your statements to be such a deal-breaker? It’s might be useful information to your career aspirations.

Get ready to repeat your “tell them off” speech a lot then, Buzz.
In politics - especially lately - trying to destroy the careers of your opponents is the name of the game, especially if you are Republican.

I am seeing Buzz doing a fine job of destroying his own career by choosing to cling to extremely problematic vocabulary and themes despite advice against it. I don’t think he will need outside intervention to fail.