Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[laughing dog]

Nothing. The dead are dead regardless of whatever distinction without a difference you want to make.

The takeaway from this is that you don't see a distinction between violent terrorists or attacking soldiers and their victims. They are all dead?
Tom

I don’t see that it matters what percentage of the dead children are “combatants”. Also I doubt the IDF knows which children in any bomb site are combatants.

I do see the distinction between cogent analysis and your posts.

 

[TomC]

I don’t see that it matters what percentage of the dead children are “combatants”. Also I doubt the IDF knows which children in any bomb site are combatants.

I don't see much importance either. I saw it as a strawman argument by repo.

Nor has IDF any feasible way to distinguish between Hamas militants and human shields being used by Hamas.

I do see the distinction between cogent analysis and your posts.

But you don't manage to respond with much but strawman arguments and insults like this.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t see that it matters what percentage of the dead children are “combatants”. Also I doubt the IDF knows which children in any bomb site are combatants.

I don't see much importance either. I saw it as a strawman argument by repo.

But not Derec’s response ( which is what I responded yo)? Wow.

Nor has IDF any feasible way to distinguish between Hamas militants and human shields being used by Hamas.

So any Gazan is automatically a “ human shield”. But thanks for making my point that the distinction between civilian and combatant doesn’t count for much.

I do see the distinction between cogent analysis and your posts.

But you don't manage to respond with much but strawman arguments and insults like this.
Tom

I made no straw man argument. Thanks for substantiating my observation.

 

[TomC]

But not Derec’s response ( which is what I responded yo)? Wow.

Derec's response was to a strawman. How hard is that to understand?

So any Gazan is automatically a “ human shield”But thanks for making my point that the distinction between civilian and combatant doesn’t count for much.

And there's another strawman, from you. I said no such thing. But someone did, IIRC it was you.

I made no straw man argument.

You just did.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

But not Derec’s response ( which is what I responded yo)? Wow.

Derec's response was to a strawman. How hard is that to understand?

It isn’t. And not relevant to my comment.

And there's another strawman, from you. I said no such thing. But someone did, IIRC it was you.

When you imply that Gazan victims are necessarily human shields, you do.

 

[TomC]

It isn’t. And not relevant to my comment.

It most certainly was. It was a response to repoman's strawman argument.

When you imply that Gazan victims are necessarily human shields, you do.

But I haven't. You, and others, keep adding strawman arguments like that.
I haven't said that because I don't believe it.

I do think that nearly all the casualties, Gazan and Israeli, are victims of Islamic terrorists such as Hamas. But that's not what you claimed I "implied".
Tom

 

[repoman]

I think what is being missed now is that much of the demolition of buildings now is not from the air, but by demolition teams.

This is going to be much less deadly, but still it is making Gaza unlivable.

 

[repoman]

Meanwhile Israel appears to be indiscriminately bombing non combatants. Israel is ordering Pleins out of a city they were told to go to for safety. Gaza makes the VN War seem civilized in retrospect.

How do you imagine Israel being able to dismantle Hamas without being able to go after the battalions in Rafah?
I think civilian population should be allowed to evacuate, but Mexico Egypt would not allow even a temporary camp in the Sinai desert.

You might be stupid/malevolent to believe/lie that Israel will allow Gazans back in once they go into the Sinai.

 

[Bomb#20]

Tigers!, you said:

Most of the inhabitants at the time of the Balfor Déclaration could not claim that heritage

That is incorrect. Most of the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration were descendants of the ancient Canaanites. The DNA evidence is compelling

From your link:

"Retracted article
See the retraction notice"​

 

[Arctish]

Tigers!, you said:

Most of the inhabitants at the time of the Balfor Déclaration could not claim that heritage

That is incorrect. Most of the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration were descendants of the ancient Canaanites. The DNA evidence is compelling

From your link:

"Retracted article​

See the retraction notice"​

Thanks for the head's up.

There have been many other genetic studies which support the current consensus that the Palestinian people are descendants of the ancient Canaanites. Do you want links to them?

 

[TomC]

I think what is being missed now is that much of the demolition of buildings now is not from the air, but by demolition teams.

This is going to be much less deadly, but still it is making Gaza unlivable.

It's unfortunate that Islamic terrorists set into motion a process that is making Gaza unlivable.

But what do you do when nobody wants to call Islamic terrorists to account before they cause so much death and destruction?

Hamas has been dominating Gaza for 18 years and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Oops for Gazans, Gaza isn't going to be livable for awhile. Because Islamic terrorists need to regroup and rearm.

October 7th worked better than they planned.

Tom

 

[Arctish]

I think what is being missed now is that much of the demolition of buildings now is not from the air, but by demolition teams.

This is going to be much less deadly, but still it is making Gaza unlivable.

It's unfortunate that Islamic terrorists set into motion a process that is making Gaza unlivable.

But what do you do when nobody wants to call Islamic terrorists to account before they cause so much death and destruction?

Hamas has been dominating Gaza for 18 years and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Oops for Gazans, Gaza isn't going to be livable for awhile. Because Islamic terrorists need to regroup and rearm.

October 7th worked better than they planned.

Tom

So you are in favor of exacting retribution against 2 million people, most of whom are children under the age of 18, for the actions of a few thousand militants, because 18 years ago 150,000 people voted for the political party to which the militants belong and never mind the civil war that clearly showed how strongly some Gazans were against Hamas taking over the government.

 

[TomC]

I think what is being missed now is that much of the demolition of buildings now is not from the air, but by demolition teams.

This is going to be much less deadly, but still it is making Gaza unlivable.

It's unfortunate that Islamic terrorists set into motion a process that is making Gaza unlivable.

But what do you do when nobody wants to call Islamic terrorists to account before they cause so much death and destruction?

Hamas has been dominating Gaza for 18 years and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Oops for Gazans, Gaza isn't going to be livable for awhile. Because Islamic terrorists need to regroup and rearm.

October 7th worked better than they planned.

Tom

So you are in favor of exacting retribution against 2 million people, most of whom are children under the age of 18, for the actions of a few thousand militants, because 18 years ago 150,000 people voted for the political party to which the militants belong and never mind the civil war that clearly showed how strongly some Gazans were against Hamas taking over the government.

Nope.
But I do understand why you'd prefer to discuss your strawman arguments than what I actually say.
Tom

 

[Arctish]

I think what is being missed now is that much of the demolition of buildings now is not from the air, but by demolition teams.

This is going to be much less deadly, but still it is making Gaza unlivable.

It's unfortunate that Islamic terrorists set into motion a process that is making Gaza unlivable.

But what do you do when nobody wants to call Islamic terrorists to account before they cause so much death and destruction?

Hamas has been dominating Gaza for 18 years and now the chickens are coming home to roost. Oops for Gazans, Gaza isn't going to be livable for awhile. Because Islamic terrorists need to regroup and rearm.

October 7th worked better than they planned.

Tom

So you are in favor of exacting retribution against 2 million people, most of whom are children under the age of 18, for the actions of a few thousand militants, because 18 years ago 150,000 people voted for the political party to which the militants belong and never mind the civil war that clearly showed how strongly some Gazans were against Hamas taking over the government.

Nope.
But I do understand why you'd prefer to discuss your strawman arguments than what I actually say.
Tom

Okay then, let's discuss the "chickens are coming home to roost" and "Oops for Gazans" comments.

It looks to me like you're saying you don't give a flying fuck that most Gazans are children or far too young to have voted Hamas into power or lost the civil war against them, you think they deserve the slaughter and destruction the IDF is doling out.

Also, could you explain what you meant when you said "nobody wants to call Islamic terrorists to account before they cause so much death and destruction"? Are you suggesting support for Hamas in Gaza increased from 44% to something somewhat higher over the last 18 years? Do you have evidence of Hamas' popularity prior to the October 2023 attack?

 

[DrZoidberg]

I just went looking for some information on the breakdown of the population in Gaza by age group. Since approximately half of the people living in Gaza in October 2023 hadn't even been born before the election in 2006 and only those 36 years of age and older could have voted, it makes no sense to blame the entire population for those election results.

As of 2023, the number of people in Gaza older than 35 was approx. 465,131*. <link>

Voter turnout for the election was approx. 75%, so about 350,000 people. <link>

And of that 350,000, only 44% voted for Hamas so we're talking about ~150,000 people. <link>

Some posters here are in effect blaming over 2 million people, most of whom are children and teenagers, for the votes cast by 150,000 people 18 years ago.

They are also suggesting that all those people who didn't vote or voted for a different party should have somehow overcome Hamas, which even the IDF struggles to do. I suppose they think all those Gazans should have gone to Ollivander's shop in Diagon Alley when they were 12 and bought magic wands so they could wave them around and shout "Expelliarmus!" and disarm the bad guys.

*Includes people born one year too early to have been eligible voters.

The reason Gaza is not democratic now is because everyone understands that if Palestinians vote its for Hamas or Islamic Jihad. If there was any chance Hamas wouldn’t win, USA would lean on Abbas to go democratic again.

You are fixating on the stuff that can be measured. And acting as that proves anything. When the information you need is available

LOL - you rubbish what is measured in order to support your unsupported claims.

It should be bleeding obvious to any rational observers that Hamas would hold elections if they thought they win.

No, you are ignoring the available evidence and are only willing to accept data that we don't have. Sometimes we just need to work with what we got.

Take your own advice. What we have is Hamas’s refusal to have elections. To a disinterested rational observer, that suggests Hamas does not think it would win an election.

Without a rational explanation, your response resembles a bullshit excuse for reason-free assertions.

Hamas doesn’t want to take part in an election that is rigged against them.

 

[laughing dog]

Hamas doesn’t want to take part in an election that is rigged against them.

Who would rig the election against them? They are in charge of Gaza.

 

[Bomb#20]

That is incorrect. Most of the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration were descendants of the ancient Canaanites. The DNA evidence is compelling

From your link:

"Retracted article​

See the retraction notice"​

Thanks for the head's up.

Sure thing. Wasn't surprised to see it. The first time you linked to that article I quit reading it after about the fourth time the authors casually equated the Palestinians with the Philistines.

There have been many other genetic studies which support the current consensus that the Palestinian people are descendants of the ancient Canaanites. Do you want links to them?

Go for it, if they're quantitative and they show the Palestinian gene pool is primarily derived from the ancient Canaanites. "The Palestinian people are descendants of the ancient Canaanites" is a dog-bites-man story. Everybody in the Middle East is a descendant of the ancient Canaanites. And also a descendant of the ancient Egyptians, and also a descendant of the ancient Assyrians, and also a descendant of the ancient Arabians, and "so on and so forth and such like". They're probably even all descendants of Genghis Khan. People interbreed.

(The thing to keep in mind, though, is that the rights and wrongs of the modern conflict aren't determined by genetics. Politesse had it right: "But I don't think the concept of indigeneity applies to the situation at all." Everybody born there has the same right not to be kicked out, just like an anchor baby born in America to illegal immigrants has the same right to stay here as a full-blooded Sioux.)

 

[DrZoidberg]

Hamas doesn’t want to take part in an election that is rigged against them.

Who would rig the election against them? They are in charge of Gaza.

Hamas has de facto control over Gaza. Thanks to Iranian money. Fatah has officially the power.

Gaza has two parallel governments.

1) The Palestinian authority, run by Fatah, which is the official government. They’re the ones who collect taxes. Its little more than an embezzlement scheme for the friends of Abbas.

2) Hamas. Funded with Iranian money. They build and run hospitals and schools. Fix the power and water grid. Provide the basic necessities of life, that the Palestinian Authority are should be doing, but aren't.

 

[Arctish]

That is incorrect. Most of the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of the Balfour Declaration were descendants of the ancient Canaanites. The DNA evidence is compelling

From your link:

"Retracted article​

See the retraction notice"​

Thanks for the head's up.

Sure thing. Wasn't surprised to see it. The first time you linked to that article I quit reading it after about the fourth time the authors casually equated the Palestinians with the Philistines.

There have been many other genetic studies which support the current consensus that the Palestinian people are descendants of the ancient Canaanites. Do you want links to them?

Go for it, if they're quantitative and they show the Palestinian gene pool is primarily derived from the ancient Canaanites. "The Palestinian people are descendants of the ancient Canaanites" is a dog-bites-man story. Everybody in the Middle East is a descendant of the ancient Canaanites.

Why would it be important that they show the Palestinian gene pool is primarily derived from the ancient Canaanites? A descendant is a descendant is a descendant.

Here's a recent article that cites a few studies. Here is an older article that contains a link to a study done in 2000 and includes one of the graphs depicting its findings.

(The thing to keep in mind, though, is that the rights and wrongs of the modern conflict aren't determined by genetics. Politesse had it right: "But I don't think the concept of indigeneity applies to the situation at all." Everybody born there has the same right not to be kicked out, just like an anchor baby born in America to illegal immigrants has the same right to stay here as a full-blooded Sioux.)

I do think the concept applies.

Golda Meir once called Palestine "a land without a people for a people without a land". She was explicitly denying the existence of an indigenous population in order to obfuscate the ethnic cleansing that Israel was founded on. The denial that there even is such a thing as an indigenous Palestinian people has direct bearing on the current conflict.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Some good news in this dreary war, two hostages rescued:

Israel rescues two hostages in Rafah amid deadly strikes

The two men, Israeli-Argentines, were rescued as Israel carried out air strikes on the southern Gazan city.

www.bbc.com