Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[repoman]

Regarding the amount of "children" dying. I think that lack of granularity is causing some of the politicking about this number.

If you have the raw numbers of age and sex who have died then you can start to have a better discussion.

To be frank, yes a 14 year old male can be trained and right now be very motivated to do damage to the IDF.

So even if all 13-17 year old males who have died are removed from the category of "child", what would that do to the child deaths in Gaza?

 

[laughing dog]

Regarding the amount of "children" dying. I think that lack of granularity is causing some of the politicking about this number.

If you have the raw numbers of age and sex who have died then you can start to have a better discussion.

To be frank, yes a 14 year old male can be trained and right now be very motivated to do damage to the IDF.

So even if all 13-17 year old males who have died are removed from the category of "child", what would that do to the child deaths in Gaza?

Nothing. The dead are dead regardless of whatever distinction without a difference you want to make.

 

[repoman]

I meant the statistics.

 

[laughing dog]

I meant the statistics.

So? By definition it is a smalier but still meaningless number.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Regarding the amount of "children" dying. I think that lack of granularity is causing some of the politicking about this number.

If you have the raw numbers of age and sex who have died then you can start to have a better discussion.

To be frank, yes a 14 year old male can be trained and right now be very motivated to do damage to the IDF.

So even if all 13-17 year old males who have died are removed from the category of "child", what would that do to the child deaths in Gaza?

Is the assumption that it is less tragic if a fourteen year old male dies because he could have been trained to be a combatant? That appears to be the takeaway from your post.

 

[repoman]

No, I am trying to do the opposite. By taking the point of Israel supporters and giving it to them by granting that all Gaza teen boys are fighters and not children (I DO NOT AGREE) there are still many thousands of "real' children who have been killed. Same could apply to taking away men over ~55-60 years old and so on from the statistics of Hamas terrorists who have been killed.

Again, this is still giving ground to Israel in their assertion that all adult males killed and crippled were Hamas. Which is absurd.

 

[Shadowy Man]

No, I am trying to do the opposite. By taking the point of Israel supporters and giving it to them by granting that all Gaza teen boys are fighters and not children (I DO NOT AGREE) there are still many thousands of "real' children who have been killed. Same could apply to taking away men over ~55-60 years old and so on from the statistics of Hamas terrorists who have been killed.

Again, this is still giving ground to Israel in their assertion that all adult males killed and crippled were Hamas. Which is absurd.

Ok. Understood.

 

[TomC]

Again, this is still giving ground to Israel in their assertion that all adult males killed and crippled were Hamas. Which is absurd.

Has anyone with any credibility made such an assertion? I am unaware of it. It's a big internet, and lots of political firebrands make ridiculous assertions, but "all adult males that were killed and crippled were Hamas"? That's not credible at all, at least not to me. Neither is Hamas lumping all people under 18 in with civilians.
As usual, the first casualty of war is the truth.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Nothing. The dead are dead regardless of whatever distinction without a difference you want to make.

The takeaway from this is that you don't see a distinction between violent terrorists or attacking soldiers and their victims. They are all dead?
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

The Israeli spin and propaganda is blatant and obvious.

Videos of bombing a refugee camp, Israel it wasntt us.

 

[Derec]

Again, this is still giving ground to Israel in their assertion that all adult males killed and crippled were Hamas. Which is absurd.

That's a strawman assertion. Nobody is claiming that.

What is claimed is that to call minor dead "children" is a misnomer as many teenage minors are combatants. That will affect the statistics. We know Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others use minor combatants.

And nobody is saying that no civilians and no children die during this war. Wars are hell. Civilians die in them. Especially when the war is against a terrorist organization that hides among and below the civilian population.

Speaking of the latter, IDF has uncovered a tunnel system underneath the UNRWA headquarters.

Hamas had command tunnel under U.N. Gaza headquarters, Israeli military says

 

[Derec]

The Israeli spin and propaganda is blatant and obvious.

Videos of bombing a refugee camp, Israel it wasntt us.

What video are you talking about?

And btw, what is referred to as "refugee camps" in Gaza were refugee camps 70 years ago, but have been just regular urban centers for decades.

 

[Derec]

Meanwhile Israel appears to be indiscriminately bombing non combatants. Israel is ordering Pleins out of a city they were told to go to for safety. Gaza makes the VN War seem civilized in retrospect.

How do you imagine Israel being able to dismantle Hamas without being able to go after the battalions in Rafah?
I think civilian population should be allowed to evacuate, but Mexico Egypt would not allow even a temporary camp in the Sinai desert.

 

[Arctish]

Zionists have been trying to force neighboring countries to accept complete responsibility for the welfare of the people the Zionists made refugees ever since Plan Dalet was implemented.

And Zionist apologists have been crying about the neighboring countries' refusal to make it easy for Zionists to continue stealing land for just as long.

 

[TomC]

The Israeli spin and propaganda is blatant and obvious.

Videos of bombing a refugee camp, Israel it wasntt us.

What video are you talking about?

And btw, what is referred to as "refugee camps" in Gaza were refugee camps 70 years ago, but have been just regular urban centers for decades.

This is just another of the many many strawman arguments attempting to shift the blame for the disaster in Gaza away from the Islamic terrorists who caused it.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

That's a strawman assertion. Nobody is claiming
What is claimed is that to call minor dead "children" is a misnomer as many teenage minors are combatants. That will affect the statistics. We know Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others use minor combatants.

Which does not suggest “many” nor negate that they are children.

 

[Shadowy Man]

That's a strawman assertion. Nobody is claiming
What is claimed is that to call minor dead "children" is a misnomer as many teenage minors are combatants. That will affect the statistics. We know Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others use minor combatants.

Which does not suggest “many” nor negate that they are children.

Presumably he has detailed statistics of the ages of Hamas militants or he wouldn’t come to the conclusion that many teenage minors are combatants.

 

[TomC]

That's a strawman assertion. Nobody is claiming
What is claimed is that to call minor dead "children" is a misnomer as many teenage minors are combatants. That will affect the statistics. We know Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others use minor combatants.

Which does not suggest “many” nor negate that they are children.

Nevertheless, repo's claim was a strawman. An unevidenced assertion about Israel.

Sure looks like an effort to blame Israel for the outcome of violent Islamic terrorism, by making an implausible claim about them.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Presumably he has detailed statistics of the ages of Hamas militants or he wouldn’t come to the conclusion that many teenage minors are combatants

You mean repo?
He started the strawman, and proceeded to expand on it by making the unsupported assertion.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

Presumably he has detailed statistics of the ages of Hamas militants or he wouldn’t come to the conclusion that many teenage minors are combatants

You mean repo?
He started the strawman, and proceeded to expand on it by making the unsupported assertion.
Tom

No. I mean Derec, who just stated that “many teenage minors are combatants”. The implication is that their deaths should not be included in the death toll of “children”. Since the death toll of children in Gaza appears to be used as an appeal to emotion in the argument against the IDF’s actions he is implying that it is a mischaracterization of the facts to include teenagers as “children”.