High Kicks and Low Wages: The price of being a NFL Cheerleader.

[dismal]

But they aren't volunteer organizations and they won't be volunteer organizations anymore that fireman, secretaries, or super models.

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You could try to run a league with unpaid volunteer players, coaches, commentators and referees. Sure, you could try.

That isn't the NFLs business model though and their product might suffer.

However, I think volunteer cheerleaders would work just fine.

This leads me to believe you have very little experience with women, cheerleaders, or volunteers.

So very true.

I thought half of firemen were volunteers...but I could be remembering too high. You are complaining about women getting less than min wage for something like a couple thousand a year and you don't think they would do it if it was entirely voluntary?

I think it's just garden variety "attack the messenger" stuff.

I assume no one seriously disputes that there are 1000s of women who would be willing to be NFL cheerleaders for free.

But those women aren't the cheerleaders in question nor would they be cheerleaders long without some compensation. And when teams advertise for cheerleaders, they don't call for volunteers and they aren't going to because they know that work entails work, commitment, and time. Even if you don't know these things, the franchises do.

I think they know they could get all the girls they want for free and pay them because they are generous. If activists and unions get involved and start demanding things I imagine that will stop. (Thanks activists...)

Just because you work hard at something doesn't mean someone is obligated to pay you to do it. When I go to the gym or play golf I actually have to pay them.

 

[ksen]

You could try to run a league with unpaid volunteer players, coaches, commentators and referees. Sure, you could try.

That isn't the NFLs business model though and their product might suffer.

However, I think volunteer cheerleaders would work just fine.

This leads me to believe you have very little experience with women, cheerleaders, or volunteers.

If I know one thing it's covert ops and women.

 

[Toni]

You let us know, when cheerleaders.....​

...Start Building These.

You let me know when NFL players, coaches, referees and owners start building monstrosities like that with their own little hands.

Try paying women and see what they build.

 

[Toni]

But they aren't volunteer organizations and they won't be volunteer organizations anymore that fireman, secretaries, or super models.

- - - Updated - - -

You could try to run a league with unpaid volunteer players, coaches, commentators and referees. Sure, you could try.

That isn't the NFLs business model though and their product might suffer.

However, I think volunteer cheerleaders would work just fine.

This leads me to believe you have very little experience with women, cheerleaders, or volunteers.

So very true.

I thought half of firemen were volunteers...but I could be remembering too high. You are complaining about women getting less than min wage for something like a couple thousand a year and you don't think they would do it if it was entirely voluntary?

I think it's just garden variety "attack the messenger" stuff.

I assume no one seriously disputes that there are 1000s of women who would be willing to be NFL cheerleaders for free.

But those women aren't the cheerleaders in question nor would they be cheerleaders long without some compensation. And when teams advertise for cheerleaders, they don't call for volunteers and they aren't going to because they know that work entails work, commitment, and time. Even if you don't know these things, the franchises do.

I think they know they could get all the girls they want for free and pay them because they are generous. If activists and unions get involved and start demanding things I imagine that will stop. (Thanks activists...)

Just because you work hard at something doesn't mean someone is obligated to pay you to do it. When I go to the gym or play golf I actually have to pay them.

Girls? Now the NFL wants to exploit children?

Or did you mean women?

 

[ksen]

But they aren't volunteer organizations and they won't be volunteer organizations anymore that fireman, secretaries, or super models.

- - - Updated - - -

You could try to run a league with unpaid volunteer players, coaches, commentators and referees. Sure, you could try.

That isn't the NFLs business model though and their product might suffer.

However, I think volunteer cheerleaders would work just fine.

This leads me to believe you have very little experience with women, cheerleaders, or volunteers.

So very true.

I thought half of firemen were volunteers...but I could be remembering too high. You are complaining about women getting less than min wage for something like a couple thousand a year and you don't think they would do it if it was entirely voluntary?

I think it's just garden variety "attack the messenger" stuff.

I assume no one seriously disputes that there are 1000s of women who would be willing to be NFL cheerleaders for free.

But those women aren't the cheerleaders in question nor would they be cheerleaders long without some compensation. And when teams advertise for cheerleaders, they don't call for volunteers and they aren't going to because they know that work entails work, commitment, and time. Even if you don't know these things, the franchises do.

I think they know they could get all the girls they want for free and pay them because they are generous. If activists and unions get involved and start demanding things I imagine that will stop. (Thanks activists...)

Just because you work hard at something doesn't mean someone is obligated to pay you to do it. When I go to the gym or play golf I actually have to pay them.

True, but if someone offers to pay you for your services they are obligated to follow all current and applicable labor laws.

Sure, let's make all cheerleaders unpaid volunteers starting today. That doesn't change the fact that up until today the NFL franchises were engaged in labor law violations and abuses with respect to their paid cheerleading staff.

 

[laughing dog]

The people on the chains get $40 to $50 per game. Which ends up more than $5 an hour. And you don't have to be good looking or athletic to hold a stick.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

But they aren't volunteer organizations and they won't be volunteer organizations anymore that fireman, secretaries, or super models.

- - - Updated - - -

You could try to run a league with unpaid volunteer players, coaches, commentators and referees. Sure, you could try.

That isn't the NFLs business model though and their product might suffer.

However, I think volunteer cheerleaders would work just fine.

This leads me to believe you have very little experience with women, cheerleaders, or volunteers.

So very true.

I thought half of firemen were volunteers...but I could be remembering too high. You are complaining about women getting less than min wage for something like a couple thousand a year and you don't think they would do it if it was entirely voluntary?

I think it's just garden variety "attack the messenger" stuff.

I assume no one seriously disputes that there are 1000s of women who would be willing to be NFL cheerleaders for free.

But those women aren't the cheerleaders in question nor would they be cheerleaders long without some compensation. And when teams advertise for cheerleaders, they don't call for volunteers and they aren't going to because they know that work entails work, commitment, and time. Even if you don't know these things, the franchises do.

I think they know they could get all the girls they want for free and pay them because they are generous. If activists and unions get involved and start demanding things I imagine that will stop. (Thanks activists...)

Just because you work hard at something doesn't mean someone is obligated to pay you to do it. When I go to the gym or play golf I actually have to pay them.

True, but if someone offers to pay you for your services they are obligated to follow all current and applicable labor laws.

Sure, let's make all cheerleaders unpaid volunteers starting today. That doesn't change the fact that up until today the NFL franchises were engaged in labor law violations and abuses with respect to their paid cheerleading staff.

Beautifully said

And simple enough even for the ******-minded.

 

[bilby]

you can actually go to college on a cheerleading scholarship.

America is batshit insane. How the fuck did you guys end up as the most powerful nation on Earth?

 

[Nexus]

What's particularly funny is he is blaming unions for a hypothetical that he assumes will happen if they try to help yet no blame for the NFL if it happens. The fact is if his hypothetical came to pass and they make cheerleaders volunteer only at least they will know what they're signing up for. If they can survive on no income doing what they enjoy then good for them. But we as a society don't have to tolerate businesses flouting our labor laws.

 

[Bronzeage]

you can actually go to college on a cheerleading scholarship.

America is batshit insane. How the fuck did you guys end up as the most powerful nation on Earth?

It has something to do with abundant natural resources and a weather pattern which insures constant good agricultural production. In other words, just lucky.

 

[Ford]

I think they know they could get all the girls they want for free and pay them because they are generous. If activists and unions get involved and start demanding things I imagine that will stop. (Thanks activists...)

Just because you work hard at something doesn't mean someone is obligated to pay you to do it. When I go to the gym or play golf I actually have to pay them.

Girls? Now the NFL wants to exploit children?

Or did you mean women?

Girls, women...either way the implication is clear:

If you work as a cheerleader, you are not only worth less than minimum wage, you should have to work for free.


Male athlete on the field wearing shoulder pads? You should be paid as much as possible. "Girl" athlete on the sidelines wearing a skimpy outfit? Dismal thinks you should not be paid at all.

 

[dismal]

Girls? Now the NFL wants to exploit children?

Or did you mean women?

Girls, women...either way the implication is clear:

If you work as a cheerleader, you are not only worth less than minimum wage, you should have to work for free.


Male athlete on the field wearing shoulder pads? You should be paid as much as possible. "Girl" athlete on the sidelines wearing a skimpy outfit? Dismal thinks you should not be paid at all.

It's always fun here when the arguments are spent and the personal attacks and strawmen ramp up.

 

[Ford]

Girls, women...either way the implication is clear:

If you work as a cheerleader, you are not only worth less than minimum wage, you should have to work for free.


Male athlete on the field wearing shoulder pads? You should be paid as much as possible. "Girl" athlete on the sidelines wearing a skimpy outfit? Dismal thinks you should not be paid at all.

It's always fun here when the arguments are spent and the personal attacks and strawmen ramp up.

It is neither a personal attack nor a straw man. You have repeatedly stated that the cheerleaders should be volunteers.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

It's always fun here when the arguments are spent and the personal attacks and strawmen ramp up.

It is neither a personal attack nor a straw man. You have repeatedly stated that the cheerleaders should be volunteers.

This is true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One simple fix for part of the problem: Minimum wage should be applied door-to-door without regard for on-the-clock time.

 

[EricK]

When the talk is about desperate people having to do a terrible kind of job for low pay just to make ends meet, then talk about minimum wage etc makes a lot of sense.

Now I admit I don't know anything about NFL cheerleading, so I may be totally wrong here, but it doesn't seem to me that these women are in that kind of situation. This isn't a desperate attempt to make ends meet because they have few or no other choices. Which in turn suggests that there are other, non-monetary, benefits to being an NFL cheerleader which means that despite its low pay, it is still an attractive career move. And presumably we should take these non-monetary benefits into account. After all, money isn't everything, is it?

 

[Togo]

I'm happy to believe the girls who do cheerleading for the NFL know what they're doing. After all, it's not like it's a real job, they're only woman, after all.

And I'm sure it doesn't reflect badly on the NFL that the employees they rely on as ambassadors for the sport are regarded as so worthless they actually pay a lawyer to take special measures to deny them minimum wage in their employment contracts. Nor does it reflect badly on the players, or their fans.

 

[arkirk]

Cheerleaders do more than rah rah rah

They are PR reps for the team
They do charity work for the team
They train and practice and risk injury for the benefit of the team

They are also subject to a set of rules that would define them as employees in any other profession but they are carried as independent contractors thus the lower than minimum wage compensation. IN OTHER WORDS, they are being cheated of just compensation demanded by law.

Now this may not bother you, (afterall they are just cheerleaders, right?) but whenever people are cheated and willfully treated as less than, it bothers the hell out of me.

Yeah, they are important to the people selling tickets and TV rights allright, but isn't the entire game a bullshit operation that harms the brains of the players in the first place? That is why it doesn't bother me. Any reason to make football less important in anybody's life is a good thing.

 

[ZiprHead]

A cheerleaders' union would probably lead to the termination of the cheerleading squads, which would be fine with me. They're on-screen for maybe 45 seconds in a 3+ hour broadcast, just for the jiggle factor. When I'm attending a game, I barely notice them. And they don't lead cheers.

But I don't see why a multi-billion dollar organization can't find enough loose change under the sofa cushions to pay them minimum wage.

QFT.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

When the talk is about desperate people having to do a terrible kind of job for low pay just to make ends meet, then talk about minimum wage etc makes a lot of sense.

Now I admit I don't know anything about NFL cheerleading, so I may be totally wrong here, but it doesn't seem to me that these women are in that kind of situation. This isn't a desperate attempt to make ends meet because they have few or no other choices. Which in turn suggests that there are other, non-monetary, benefits to being an NFL cheerleader which means that despite its low pay, it is still an attractive career move. And presumably we should take these non-monetary benefits into account. After all, money isn't everything, is it?

Work is work and the law must apply regardless of other income. Once you make exceptions, exceptions can become the rule and the very people you just named could wind up being the most exploited.