Truck of peace hits New Orleans

[Derec]

No, but it shows that birth place is not necessarily indicative of identity.

Omar Mateen, the Afghan Islamic terrorist who shot up the Pulse nightclub was also born in the US. I guess to you he was a New Yorker ...

How was he Afghan if he was a US citizen?

[emphasis added]
You are ignoring the bolded part where I explained it and provided Omar Mateen as an example.

Mateen may have been US citizen de jure, but his identity was Afghan.

 

[Derec]

I asked a question because your OP had no explicit point.

"Truck of peace" not clear enough? It was a sendup of apologists for Islam calling it "religion of peace".

Right now, we don’t know what factors influenced this killer.

Pledging allegiance to ISIS is a pretty clear influence. If he was a white guy with a Nazi flag you would not be so hesitant to come up with factors that influenced him.

Instead of jumping to a single casual factor that fits into one’s biases, wait for the facts.

Things are rarely monocausal, and I never said there was a "single causal factor" in anything. But Islamism is clearly the major factor here, and tat should not be dismissed just because it does not fit the islamophilic Left's narrative.

Didn’t you learn from Samantha Woll’s murder?

What about Maria Ladenburger? Mia Valentin? Mireille Bold?

 

[Derec]

It’s a real head scratcher this one. What possible motive is there for Shamsud-Din Jabbar to carry out such an atrocity? Obviously we can rule out Islamic terrorism because that would be raycist!!11!!

Who's ruling it out?

The usual suspects are twisting themselves into pretzels to blame other things, like him living in Texas or having served in the military.

Moreover, Islam is not a race.

It is not, as I have pointed out very frequently on this forum.
And TSwizzle is obviously satirizing those who scream "racism!" whenever somebody dare say something bad about Islam and its adherents.

 

[Derec]

The first three words of the OP give away the whole game: “Truck of peace.”

It's satire of the "religion of peace" apologetics.
It is also a reference to using trucks to ram into people is a tactic often used by the adherents of the supposed "religion of peace".
 2016 Nice truck attack
 2016 Berlin truck attack
 2017 Stockholm truck attack
 2017 Edmonton attack
 2017 New York City truck attack

Hardly an exhaustive list. Btw, the Edmonton guy, a Somali fakefugee, was in deportation proceedings but was released from detention and then went to Canada and claimed asylum there. SMH.

Yes, it wasn’t an individual or a group of people who committed this act. It was an entire religion and everyone who subscribes to it. Absolutely pitiful.

Nobody is blaming "an entire religion and everyone who subscribes to it". But at the same time, we must not be blind that these kinds of attacks are disproportionately often committed by adherents of this religion.

 

[TomC]

Is the point of the OP that Texans don’t belong in the US?

No, but it shows that birth place is not necessarily indicative of identity.

Omar Mateen, the Afghan Islamic terrorist who shot up the Pulse nightclub was also born in the US. I guess to you he was a New Yorker ...

How was he Afghan if he was a US citizen?

That's not difficult to understand.
Here in America lots of people identify as a member of the family more than anything. It's largely cultural, but not entirely. Mateen was an Afghani Muslim who happened to be born here in the USA.
Tom

 

[Derec]

My extremely snide post #3 was mainly a response to a Xhit from Donald Trump claiming that the problem is US immigration laws allowing Muslim terrorists to come to this country.

He was obviously wrong about this attacker being an immigrant.
However, Sayfullo Saipov, who committed a similar truck attack in NYC in 2017, is an Uzbekh Muslim who came to the US on a "diversity visa".

He completely failed to mention that the perp in this heinous crime was a US citizen, born and raised in Texas, and a veteran of the US military.

I find it curious that in the news articles there is a lot of information about his jobs, his marriages, even that he attended Georgia State for a time, but nothing about his family's history. Are they recent immigrants from a Muslim country/region such as Somalia? Are they African Americans who converted in the 60s when conversion to Islam was linked to black radicalism (see Little, Malcolm)? Is he descended from "jailhouse Muslims"? Something else?

 

[laughing dog]

I asked a question because your OP had no explicit point.

"Truck of peace" not clear enough? It was a sendup of apologists for Islam calling it "religion of peace".

Just pointing out the bigoted conclusion you jumped to.

Right now, we don’t know what factors influenced this killer.

Pledging allegiance to ISIS is a pretty clear influence. If he was a white guy with a Nazi flag you would not be so hesitant to come up with factors that influenced him.

At the time of the post, that was not known. So

Instead of jumping to a single casual factor that fits into one’s biases, wait for the facts.

Things are rarely monocausal, and I never said there was a "single causal factor" in anything. But Islamism is clearly the major factor here, and tat should not be dismissed just because it does not fit the islamophilic Left's narrative.

If Islam was the major factor, there'd be a lot more Islamic terrorists. And what is with your obsession with "the Left" here?

Didn’t you learn from Samantha Woll’s murder?

What about Maria Ladenburger? Mia Valentin? Mireille Bold?

So, the answer is no.

 

[Toni]

Is the point of the OP that Texans don’t belong in the US?

No, but it shows that birth place is not necessarily indicative of identity.

Omar Mateen, the Afghan Islamic terrorist who shot up the Pulse nightclub was also born in the US. I guess to you he was a New Yorker ...

How was he Afghan if he was a US citizen?

That's not difficult to understand.
Here in America lots of people identify as a member of the family more than anything. It's largely cultural, but not entirely. Mateen was an Afghani Muslim who happened to be born here in the USA.
Tom

No: he was an Afghan-American who happened to be Muslim. Like being an Italian American or an Irish American who happens to be Catholic.

 

[pood]

I asked a question because your OP had no explicit point.

"Truck of peace" not clear enough? It was a sendup of apologists for Islam calling it "religion of peace".

Yes, it was clear enough. And I explained why it was bullshit, a bit of sadistic rhetorical violence directed against 1.8 billion people who did not commit this act, and the vast majority of whom have never committed any violent act. But just like you to ignore this analysis and just proudly repeat your reprehensible jabber without the slightest indication how badly you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Toni]

No, but it shows that birth place is not necessarily indicative of identity.

Omar Mateen, the Afghan Islamic terrorist who shot up the Pulse nightclub was also born in the US. I guess to you he was a New Yorker ...

How was he Afghan if he was a US citizen?

[emphasis added]
You are ignoring the bolded part where I explained it and provided Omar Mateen as an example.

Mateen may have been US citizen de jure, but his identity was Afghan.

How do you know this? You’ve met him? Plenty of white Americans of mostly European descent who.. I dunno: join the Klan. Other white supremacist groups? Vote for Trump/Elon Musk.

There are a serious number of white men who love to post about how women need the structure patriarchy provides and other shit.



How is it different than Irish Americans? Or Italian Americans? Or Chinese Americans? Or Korean Americans? Or German Americans? Or Polish Americans? Or

 

[bilby]

No, but it shows that birth place is not necessarily indicative of identity.

Omar Mateen, the Afghan Islamic terrorist who shot up the Pulse nightclub was also born in the US. I guess to you he was a New Yorker ...

How was he Afghan if he was a US citizen?

[emphasis added]
You are ignoring the bolded part where I explained it and provided Omar Mateen as an example.

Mateen may have been US citizen de jure, but his identity was Afghan.

I dunno. Shooting up a public place sounds stereotypically American to me.

 

[Derec]

No it would be racist to indict an entire religion without all its vast numbers of adherents because of the action of an individual claiming to speak in the name of that religion.

It is not "racist" to recognize that adherents of Islam are far more likely to do shit like this than others.

Hence the title of the OP, “Truck of peace,” because that was exactly what Derec and evidently you propose.

Again, it is a parody of the tendency to dismiss concerns about extremism in Islam by calling it "religion of peace".

But I don’t blame you. You can’t even follow the arguments and evidence about human-induced global warming, so why would you be expected to have an enlightened, educated opinion about this or anything at all?

Other than ad hominems, you have zilch. From thread to thread.

 

[Derec]

Let’s suppose the guy who did this really was motivated not by his interpretation of Islam, or whoever propagandized him, but instead by Texan nationalism.

If the truck rammer was motivated by Texan nationalism, or by white supremacy for that matter, there would be a thread where the ideology of Texan nationalism (or white supremacy) would be attacked. It would not be seen as just a misguided individual - his or her ideology would be the topic as well.

After all, there are Texans who hate the federal government and want to secede from the union. Some of them have even threatened violence.

And if a disproportionate number of Texan nationalists committed violence in the name of Texas, it would not be bigotry to point out that Texas has a problem with violent nationalism. Why should we stick our heads in the sand when it comes to political Islam?

Islam is called the religion of peace.

By idiots.
In reality, the word "Islam" means "Submission". As in "submit, or else!"

Texas is called the Lone Star state.
If an actual Texan nationalist had committed this crime, would Derec have titled his thread, “Truck of the Lone Star”?

If Texans had a penchant for driving trucks into crowds like the adherents of the supposed "religion of peace" do, yes, that would be appropriate.
But it was not a Texan nationalist who drove a truck into a crowd in New Orleans, or in Nice, or Stockholm, or Berlin, or New York City. It is not Texans who commit ramming attacks on a regular basis in Israel. It's Islamists. Over and over again. Hence the title.

Would he have confused the act of an individual Texan with all of Texas?

I think it is you who is confused.

 

[laughing dog]

No it would be racist to indict an entire religion without all its vast numbers of adherents because of the action of an individual claiming to speak in the name of that religion.

It is not "racist" to recognize that adherents of Islam are far more likely to do shit like this than others.

Are there are any studies to support your perception? Not anecdotes, but relatively comprehensive data.

 

[Derec]

Timothy McVeigh, who blew up the Murrah building and killed 168 people, stated that science was his religion.

[citation needed]
Isn't it generally acknowledged that what motivated him was some flavor of Christian nationalism?
In any case, that was more than 30 years ago. While there exist terrorists of all flavors, Islamists produce a widely disproportionate share.
When they do not have proper infidels around, they attack each other (e.g. Sunni vs. Shia).

Did science blow up the Murrah building?

Well, technically the science of chemistry did.

 

[Derec]

How do you know this? You’ve met him? Plenty of white Americans of mostly European descent who.. I dunno: join the Klan. Other white supremacist groups? Vote for Trump/Elon Musk.

Are you trying to draw some sort of equivalence between European descent (which is a western culture) and Afghan descent (which has a culture incompatible with the West)?
Also, Elon Musk wasn't on the ballot. Are you confusing him with J.D. Vance?

There are a serious number of white men who love to post about how women need the structure patriarchy provides and other shit.

Ah yes, the evil white men. Fauxgressive left sees white men as the root of all evil. Meanwhile in actually existing Islam:
The Taliban say they will close all NGOs employing Afghan women
'If we can't speak, why live?' - BBC meets women after new Taliban law

How is it different than Irish Americans? Or Italian Americans? Or Chinese Americans? Or Korean Americans? Or German Americans? Or Polish Americans? Or

How many of them drove a truck into the crowd because of religious or nationalist ideology? How many flew planes into buildings for that same reason?
For that matter, how many Irish-Americans and other support the kinds of views many Muslims do?

Why is this false equivalence so important to you, Toni? What do you, and other leftists, get from whitewashing political Islam?
They are not even good political allies for you any more, given how quickly they dumped Biden and Harris for not submitting to their demands.

 

[Toni]

How do you know this? You’ve met him? Plenty of white Americans of mostly European descent who.. I dunno: join the Klan. Other white supremacist groups? Vote for Trump/Elon Musk.

Are you trying to draw some sort of equivalence between European descent (which is a western culture) and Afghan descent (which has a culture incompatible with the West)?
Also, Elon Musk wasn't on the ballot. Are you confusing him with J.D. Vance?

There are a serious number of white men who love to post about how women need the structure patriarchy provides and other shit.

Ah yes, the evil white men. Fauxgressive left sees white men as the root of all evil. Meanwhile in actually existing Islam:
The Taliban say they will close all NGOs employing Afghan women
'If we can't speak, why live?' - BBC meets women after new Taliban law

How is it different than Irish Americans? Or Italian Americans? Or Chinese Americans? Or Korean Americans? Or German Americans? Or Polish Americans? Or

How many of them drove a truck into the crowd because of religious or nationalist ideology? How many flew planes into buildings for that same reason?
For that matter, how many Irish-Americans and other support the kinds of views many Muslims do?

Why is this false equivalence so important to you, Toni? What do you, and other leftists, get from whitewashing political Islam?
They are not even good political allies for you any more, given how quickly they dumped Biden and Harris for not submitting to their demands.

How is Afghani culture ‘incompatible’ with the west? Why do you equate Afghanistan with fundamentalist Islam? It was quite progressive prior to Russia’s invasion. Not that the US helped.

White supremacists are considered the number one most dangerous domestic terror groups in the US.

As uncomfortable as it will make everyone involved or sympathetic to either group, there are an awful lot of similarities between Christian fundamentalists, particularly with regards to women, women’s role in society, etc. I don’t know if you ever frequent Twitter but it is truly a cesspool of misogyny that would really fit right in with the Taliban. I really really wish I were exaggerating.



Unfortunately there is an increase in vehicle ramming attacks world wide, with the greatest number in the US( no surprise).

My political and personal views are not dependent upon who, if anyone shares them. But I’m glad if you find yourself made happier by the re-emergence of misogyny and racism as political policy. Someone should be. The rest of us are pretty damned upset. Of course, I actually remember the early 60’s….

 

[bilby]

It is not "racist" to recognize that adherents of Islam are far more likely to do shit like this than others.

Yeah, actually it is, just as a matter of statistics.

It may be true that the people who do this shit are far more likely to be Muslims than adherents of other religions; However it is NOT therefore true that Muslims are more likely to do shit like this than others.

Dividing the number of terrorists by the world population gets you a number that is effectively zero - that a person is human tells you nothing about the chances that he will be a terrorist, because terrorists are vanishingly rare.

Dividing the number of terrorists by the world Muslim population gets you a number that is also effectively zero - that a person is a Muslim tells you nothing about the chances that he will be a terrorist, because terrorists are vanishingly rare.

The chance that a person is a terrorist is approximately zero. Almost a quarter of people are Mulims; Four times zero is also zero.

Even if EVERY SINGLE TERRORIST were a Muslim, it would still be statistically incorrect, and therefore hugely bigoted, to assume that any individual Muslim had a significantly greater propensity to terrorism than anyone else.

Whether you want to split hairs over the definition of 'racism' or not.

You are expressing unwarranted and unsupportable bigotry, and you and those who share your error are doing great harm thereby.

You should fucking stop it.

 

[Toni]

It is not "racist" to recognize that adherents of Islam are far more likely to do shit like this than others.

Yeah, actually it is, just as a matter of statistics.

It may be true that the people who do this shit are far more likely to be Muslims than adherents of other religions; However it is NOT therefore true that Muslims are more likely to do shit like this than others.

Dividing the number of terrorists by the world population gets you a number that is effectively zero - that a person is human tells you nothing about the chances that he will be a terrorist, because terrorists are vanishingly rare.

Dividing the number of terrorists by the world Muslim population gets you a number that is also effectively zero - that a person is a Muslim tells you nothing about the chances that he will be a terrorist, because terrorists are vanishingly rare.

The chance that a person is a terrorist is approximately zero. Almost a quarter of people are Mulims; Four times zero is also zero.

Even if EVERY SINGLE TERRORIST were a Muslim, it would still be statistically incorrect, and therefore hugely bigoted, to assume that any individual Muslim had a significantly greater propensity to terrorism than anyone else.

Whether you want to split hairs over the definition of 'racism' or not.

You are expressing unwarranted and unsupportable bigotry, and you and those who share your error are doing great harm thereby.

You should fucking stop it.

Not only is it unwarranted bigotry but it’s not even original. Similar bigotry has targeted Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, Native Americans, Japanese Americans, gay and lesbian people, trans people and I’m certain a lot more ‘out’ groups that I’m simply not remembering right now.

Life is often hard and often unfair. Some of it is the structure of society: we are seeing in the US what happens when we allow a handful of people to accumulate enormous wealth and with it, privilege, something that the US was supposed to prevent: we are all supposed to be equal under the law, even if we did have to add some amendments to the constitution. A poor person should be treated equally under the law as a rich person but that definitely does not happen—and it’s going to get worse.

 

[TSwizzle]

How is Afghani culture ‘incompatible’ with the west? Why do you equate Afghanistan with fundamentalist Islam?

Have you not heard about how things are going for women in Afghanistan?