Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

Well, there will always be a few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. See, for example, the recently renamed “Arab Americans for Trump”.

Why wouldn't a conservative community in USA support Trump? I don't find that weird in the least

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, there will always be a few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. See, for example, the recently renamed “Arab Americans for Trump”.

Why wouldn't a conservative community in USA support Trump? I don't find that weird in the least

It seems you may not have enough information to adequately comment on that situation if that is your take.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Well, there will always be a few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. See, for example, the recently renamed “Arab Americans for Trump”.

Why wouldn't a conservative community in USA support Trump? I don't find that weird in the least

It seems you may not have enough information to adequately comment on that situation if that is your take.

I'm not sure you are aware, but plenty of Arabs are well aware of the problems in Middle-Eastern culture. Many Arabs moved from the Middle-East, specifically to get away from it. Its just that liberal Arabs are, by western standards, way way far out on the extreme right. I have a hard time believing any Arab immigration would ever vote Democrat. They're just too extreme. But that’s just my impression.

This of course only applies to Arabs born in the Middle-East. Ethnic Arabs born in the West, mostly have modern western and secular values. Or they have a schizophrenic mixture where they're both western liberals about some things and ultra conservative about some things

These opinions are anecdotal and 100% based my close Arab friends. Obviously there's a selection bias, (ie middle class well educated Arabs) and I know little about Arabs I don't personally know. But my impression is that they're the same, just more extreme.

I have one very close Palestinian friend (from Gaza). She's bisexual and kinky. I am sure that influences her political views. Her views on the Palestine Israel conflict makes no sense at all. I assume that's because she wants Israel to win for ideological reasons. But doesn't want her family exterminated. Which is an understandable position. Her religious views are equally schizophrenic. Both liberal and conservative at the same time

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Well, there will always be a few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. See, for example, the recently renamed “Arab Americans for Trump”.

Why wouldn't a conservative community in USA support Trump? I don't find that weird in the least

Because there's been a war between right-wing Christians and right-wing Muslims for centuries.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, there will always be a few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. See, for example, the recently renamed “Arab Americans for Trump”.

Why wouldn't a conservative community in USA support Trump? I don't find that weird in the least

It seems you may not have enough information to adequately comment on that situation if that is your take.

I'm not sure you are aware, but plenty of Arabs are well aware of the problems in Middle-Eastern culture. Many Arabs moved from the Middle-East, specifically to get away from it. Its just that liberal Arabs are, by western standards, way way far out on the extreme right. I have a hard time believing any Arab immigration would ever vote Democrat. They're just too extreme. But that’s just my impression.

Biden won Dearborn Michigan, where that “Arab Americans for Trump” group was, with 69% of the vote in 2020. So they did indeed vote democrat, despite your difficulties believing that. Then, they were disappointed in how Biden dealt with the Palestinian issue so as a protest they decided to support Trump. But now that they realize that Trump would be a disaster for their cause, a fact that should have been extremely obvious prior to the election, they are feeling betrayed.

So, that’s the actual situation I am referring to, not an “impression” of the situation.

And anyway my point was that those Arab Americans were among a “few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. ” any trivial observation of Trump would show that he would be far worse for their cause than Harris but they (like so many others) would rather play politics with the Palestinians rather than do what would be best for them.

 

[TomC]

And anyway my point was that those Arab Americans were among a “few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. ” any trivial observation of Trump would show that he would be far worse for their cause than Harris but they (like so many others) would rather play politics with the Palestinians rather than do what would be best for them.

The fact that Trump had already floated his "Mar-a-Lago on the Mediterranean" idea before the election makes this group look like typical Trumpy grifters.
I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Tom

ETA ~It would also give him a country of his own where he is beyond the reach of any justice system.~

 

[Shadowy Man]

And anyway my point was that those Arab Americans were among a “few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. ” any trivial observation of Trump would show that he would be far worse for their cause than Harris but they (like so many others) would rather play politics with the Palestinians rather than do what would be best for them.

The fact that Trump had already floated his "Mar-a-Lago on the Mediterranean" idea before the election makes this group look like typical Trumpy grifters.
I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Tom

ETA ~It would also give him a country of his own where he is beyond the reach of any justice system.~

If they were simple grifters, it would seem odd for them to give up the grift right after his Gaza declaration. But, perhaps that's just them knowing their audience and trying to get ahead of the next grift. I'll grant that possibility, too.

 

[TomC]

If they were simple grifters, it would seem odd for them to give up the grift right after his Gaza declaration. But, perhaps that's just them knowing their audience and trying to get ahead of the next grift. I'll grant that possibility, too.

People often do things for multiple reasons, especially groups of people.

If you are an aficionado of strong man governance, and can convince yourself that Trump didn't really mean to move the USA embassy to Jerusalem and won't follow through on his plan for ethnic cleansing of Gaza, plus you'd make money by getting donations from Trumpistas,
You get started on your political plans.
Tom
ETA ~Don't get me wrong. Humans can be incredibly stupid. Maybe they really did join forces with Likud/bibi and the Christian Dominionists because they are stupid.~

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And anyway my point was that those Arab Americans were among a “few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. ” any trivial observation of Trump would show that he would be far worse for their cause than Harris but they (like so many others) would rather play politics with the Palestinians rather than do what would be best for them.

The fact that Trump had already floated his "Mar-a-Lago on the Mediterranean" idea before the election makes this group look like typical Trumpy grifters.
I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Tom

ETA ~It would also give him a country of his own where he is beyond the reach of any justice system.~

Do you have a cite for that? It seems a difficult search. I don't recall him making such comments, but he makes so many of that.

 

[Shadowy Man]

And anyway my point was that those Arab Americans were among a “few poorly informed people supporting a cause fallaciously. ” any trivial observation of Trump would show that he would be far worse for their cause than Harris but they (like so many others) would rather play politics with the Palestinians rather than do what would be best for them.

The fact that Trump had already floated his "Mar-a-Lago on the Mediterranean" idea before the election makes this group look like typical Trumpy grifters.
I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Tom

ETA ~It would also give him a country of his own where he is beyond the reach of any justice system.~

Do you have a cite for that? It seems a difficult search. I don't recall him making such comments, but he makes so many of that.

I do think it’s been reported that Jared Kushner referred to Gaza’s beachfront property so look that up perhaps.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You rock!

"Gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable, if people would focus on building up livelihoods," Kushner, who once described the entire Arab-Israeli conflict as "nothing more than a real-estate dispute between Israelis and Palestinians" said at an event in Harvard in February 2024.

link

No one cares what Kuschner thinks, so it'd been easy for me to miss that one. Don't know if TomC had something else in mind, but that article seems to tie the comments that have been made up together.

 

[TomC]

You rock!

"Gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable, if people would focus on building up livelihoods," Kushner, who once described the entire Arab-Israeli conflict as "nothing more than a real-estate dispute between Israelis and Palestinians" said at an event in Harvard in February 2024.

link

No one cares what Kuschner thinks, so it'd been easy for me to miss that one. Don't know if TomC had something else in mind, but that article seems to tie the comments that have been made up together.

You are wrong about "No one cares what Kuschner thinks,"
Saudis care enough to send him 2 billion dollars in public.

Pretending that no one cares is human.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

You rock!

"Gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable, if people would focus on building up livelihoods," Kushner, who once described the entire Arab-Israeli conflict as "nothing more than a real-estate dispute between Israelis and Palestinians" said at an event in Harvard in February 2024.

link

No one cares what Kuschner thinks, so it'd been easy for me to miss that one. Don't know if TomC had something else in mind, but that article seems to tie the comments that have been made up together.

You are wrong about "No one cares what Kuschner thinks,"
Saudis care enough to send him 2 billion dollars in public.

Pretending that no one cares is human.
Tom

It’s pretty much the only thing I can remember Jared Kushner saying.

 

[Emily Lake]

No, I'm not. Were it somehow within my power, I would "put rules of engagement" on Israel that preclude religious ethnocide against their citizens.

Is Israel killing muslims who live in Nazareth and Jerusalem?

 

[Politesse]

No, I'm not. Were it somehow within my power, I would "put rules of engagement" on Israel that preclude religious ethnocide against their citizens.

Is Israel killing muslims who live in Nazareth and Jerusalem?

244 Arabs said killed in 2023 violence, more than double 2022 toll

Abraham Initiatives coexistence organization says this was bloodiest year ever for Arab homicides, blames government for pausing earlier efforts to curb trend

www.timesofisrael.com

Violence at Jerusalem mosque raises fears of escalation

Israeli police have stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem's Old City, firing stun grenades and beating Palestinian youths who hurled stones and firecrackers in a burst of violence during a sensitive holiday seasons.

www.pbs.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/jerusalem-west-bank-ramadan-violence/

https://www.btselem.org/jerusalem/20230628_israeli_violence_against_palestinians_in_east_jerusalem_during_ramadan_prayers_sabbath_of_light_and_flag_march

Clashes in Jerusalem as thousands of Israelis parade through Muslim quarter

Fears that Flag Day event will spark more violence, with far-right minister expected to attend and Hamas calling for ‘day of anger’

www.theguardian.com

Patriarch of Jerusalem condemns violence practiced against civilians in East Jerusalem

His Beatitude the Patriarch of Jerusalem Theophilos III, in a statement, condemned the violence practiced against civilians in East Jerusalem, especially in the Holy Sanctuary of Al Aqsa mosque and the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood.

www.oikoumene.org

 

[ZiprHead]

You rock!

"Gaza's waterfront property, it could be very valuable, if people would focus on building up livelihoods," Kushner, who once described the entire Arab-Israeli conflict as "nothing more than a real-estate dispute between Israelis and Palestinians" said at an event in Harvard in February 2024.

link

No one cares what Kuschner thinks, so it'd been easy for me to miss that one. Don't know if TomC had something else in mind, but that article seems to tie the comments that have been made up together.

You are wrong about "No one cares what Kuschner thinks,"
Saudis care enough to send him 2 billion dollars in public.

Supposedly Kushner sent the Saudi prince the US top secret list of Saudi bigwigs who might not support the prince taking over the country. The prince had those on the list arrested, taken to a hotel where they were given rooms where many of them were tortured and one was killed. Unsurprisingly their opposition turned into support.

 

[steve_bank]

Trump's announcement sitting next to Netanyahu about forced relocating Palestinian and taking control is about as ugly as it gets.

A Trump spokesperson said quality of life ' is not tied to where you live', they will be happy elsewhere.

Jews were made to wear the Star Of David by Nazis, maybe Palestinians should be required to wear a symbol in public.

Israel and the Saudis know how to manipulate Trump, I doubt it was Trump's idea. The seed would have been planted by Netanyahu.

The WWII Nazi forced relocation of populations is considered one of the the greatest modern moral crimes against humanity. Yet here we are talking about forced relocation of millions to suit Israel. That is irony for you.

After Afghanistan and Iraq and Trumps saying we should not interfere in foreign conflicts, here we go again. I wonder if Trump has heard of the British Manadate.

 

[crazyfingers]

Trump's announcement sitting next to Netanyahu about forced relocating Palestinian and taking control is about as ugly as it gets.

A Trump spokesperson said quality of life ' is not tied to where you live', they will be happy elsewhere.

Jews were made to wear the Star Of David by Nazis, maybe Palestinians should be required to wear a symbol in public.

Israel and the Saudis know how to manipulate Trump, I doubt it was Trump's idea. The seed would have been planted by Netanyahu.

The WWII Nazi forced relocation of populations is considered one of the the greatest modern moral crimes against humanity. Yet here we are talking about forced relocation of millions to suit Israel. That is irony for you.

After Afghanistan and Iraq and Trumps saying we should not interfere in foreign conflicts, here we go again. I wonder if Trump has heard of the British Manadate.

I had read that Trump got the idea from his Middle East Envoy, a Steve Witkoff, who is a billionaire real estate investor and Trump golfing buddy. Sec. of State Rubio only heard the "plan" from television.

With Trump, right and wrong don't compute. He does not know or care about right from wrong. All he understands is

Want vs doesn't want
Can vs can't
Has vs doesn't have

It's a 3 year old mentality

 

[steve_bank]

Apparently Steve Witkoff is Jewish.

There is no clear boundary between Israel and the USA. Dual citizenship is common. Americans in Israeli govern mt and military is not uncommon. That is why our politicians tread lightly in crocheting Israel.

There is story going back to the founding of Israel. An Arcane Jewish officer was given permission to go to Israe.l He is cre4dited with turning Jewish militants into an organized army.

He was killed by friendly fire just before the ceasefire.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Just to take a step back and review the timeline of Gaza relocation...

Ben Gvir, extremist member of Netanyahu's govt, has been talking about this for many months. For example, back in June:

Israel’s Ben-Gvir demands resettlement of Gaza, ‘voluntary migration’ of Palestinians

‘It is not enough to build only settlements,’ says Ben-Gvir - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Before Trump was elected back in July 2024, he worked closely with someone on the plan to migrate Gaza:

The man with the plan: DC prof sent Trump study on Gaza relocation, development in July

GWU economics professor Joseph Pelzman wrote detailed proposal for Trump's team; says 'you have to destroy the whole place, restart from scratch'

www.timesofisrael.com

"...you have to destroy the whole place, restart from scratch..."

Then, Trump met with Netanyahu that same month, July:

Netanyahu meets Trump, capping US trip marked by Gaza protests

Israeli PM seeks to mend ties with Republican presidential candidate after meetings with Biden, Harris.

www.aljazeera.com