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Why the Constitution is now null and void

KCFlyer said:
RVonse said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress. ANd for what it's worth.. I have an idea that Elon named it since he has the mentality of a teenage gamer - DOGE originallly was a JOKE bitcoin.
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DOGE wasn't just pulled out of Trump's ass. He cleverly took over an existing Obama agency called USDS which already had funding and legality and renamed it DOGE. So basically these lawsuits are going to be litigating against an Obama era created agency saying Obama and Congress gave it too much power. They are frivolous lawsuits with no merit.

strangesounds.substack.com

For anyone confused on how DOGE was created or even allowed to exist...

Here's a little bit of history...
strangesounds.substack.com strangesounds.substack.com
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Without digging deeper, I'llk accept the article as it is - it was created under Obama. But we never heard of it. Mostly because Obama didn't use it the way Trump and Musk are using it. I know this because if ANY democrat did exactly the same things Trump adn Musk are doing in exactly the same way, right wing media would have been howling. So how abut this..let's keep that Obama era thing in place since it's apparently a great deal....but let's let Congess run it...not Elon Musk.
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That would not even work for what Obama intended. In order to make software work right you have to have technical expertise. Another words people like Musk and his teenagers. Congress doesn't have those skills. They don't know how to do anything except spend other peoples money and collect huge salaries for doing so.
 
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Like it or not, Trump is not doing anything that Obama did not already engineer and create. Trump was extremely careful in the planning stages of DOGE to make sure what he was doing was legal and funded.
 
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RVonse said:
Like it or not, Trump is not doing anything that Obama did not already engineer and create. Trump was extremely careful in the planning stages of DOGE to make sure what he was doing was legal and funded.
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Are you serious? Energy Department is scrambling to rehire nuclear weapon staffing that was fired to save money. DOGE isn't doing anything but firing the easiest staff to fire. There is no efficiency being considered in any of their maneuvers. Christ, you questioned every damn thing with 9/11, and you aren't asking any questions here... even after the Admin fucks up so bad in eliminating key staffing as it relates to our nuclear weapon program!
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
RVonse said:
Like it or not, Trump is not doing anything that Obama did not already engineer and create. Trump was extremely careful in the planning stages of DOGE to make sure what he was doing was legal and funded.
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Are you serious? Energy Department is scrambling to rehire nuclear weapon staffing that was fired to save money. DOGE isn't doing anything but firing the easiest staff to fire. There is no efficiency being considered in any of their maneuvers. Christ, you questioned every damn thing with 9/11, and you aren't asking any questions here... even after the Admin fucks up so bad in eliminating key staffing as it relates to our nuclear weapon program!
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All I'm saying is the lawsuits are going to go no where. Every one of them will be deemed frivolous with regards to not following the constitution. See my response to KFCflyers post 380. DOGE (USDS) was properly created and funded by Obama and Trump simply took it over.

Now you might have an argument that DOGE is doing harm and not working. You might even be correct, but in fairness it is far too soon to know. And whether or not DOGE is working or not has NOTHING to do with OP.
 
RVonse said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
RVonse said:
Like it or not, Trump is not doing anything that Obama did not already engineer and create. Trump was extremely careful in the planning stages of DOGE to make sure what he was doing was legal and funded.
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Are you serious? Energy Department is scrambling to rehire nuclear weapon staffing that was fired to save money. DOGE isn't doing anything but firing the easiest staff to fire. There is no efficiency being considered in any of their maneuvers. Christ, you questioned every damn thing with 9/11, and you aren't asking any questions here... even after the Admin fucks up so bad in eliminating key staffing as it relates to our nuclear weapon program!
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All I'm saying is the lawsuits are going to go no where.
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Because you have a good record on predicting legal cases?
RVonse said:
Every one of them will be deemed frivolous with regards to not following the constitution. See my response to KFCflyers post 380. DOGE (USDS) was properly created and funded by Obama and Trump simply took it over.
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No, not simply. They are tinkering well outside of simply.
RVonse said:
Now you might have an argument that DOGE is doing harm and not working. You might even be correct, but in fairness it is far too soon to know.
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They clearly aren't analyzing and reviewing. As you noted, it is way too early to have conclusions about specific people in the workforce, their position, and the expendability of both. So what is the entire basis of layoffs now, other than merely statistics?
RVonse said:
And whether or not DOGE is working or not has NOTHING to do with OP.
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Indeed, it is about whether these actions can be taken unilaterally by people with no security clearance... and even pess experience in these matters.
 
RVonse said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress.
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DOGE wasn't just pulled out of Trump's ass. He cleverly took over an existing Obama agency called USDS which already had funding and legality and renamed it DOGE. So basically these lawsuits are going to be litigating against an Obama era created agency saying Obama and Congress gave it too much power. They are frivolous lawsuits with no merit.

strangesounds.substack.com

For anyone confused on how DOGE was created or even allowed to exist...

Here's a little bit of history...
strangesounds.substack.com strangesounds.substack.com
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That link stinks. I am not going to subscribe to read further what some guy who admits to not having any legal qualifications read on X, posted by a person he believes to be a lawyer, and who he trusts implicily apparently for the sole reason that Random "Lawyer" on X is not a part of the mainstream media.

The tiny part of that link that I can read without a subscription throws up more red flags than a May Day parade in Moscow at the height of the Cold War.

It might not be bullshit, but it's certainly not a trustworthy source, so in the unlikely event that there's a grain of truth in there, it is there by pure accident.

Yet again I stand in awe at your inability to spot obvious liars, when they are obviously lying to you.
 
RVonse said:
Like it or not, Trump is not doing anything that Obama did not already engineer and create. Trump was extremely careful in the planning stages of DOGE to make sure what he was doing was legal and funded.
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What incredible Bullshit. Obama never did anything like the chaos, willful cruelty, illegal unfunding of agencies. Trump does things to be cruel, get press or make money. You really have zero credibility.
 
unapologetic said:
barbos said:
illegality and shittiness of Biden administration shows your priorities.
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DAM RIGHT.
Rump and Musk's illegality and shittiness is in my backyard.
You are an outsider, from an adversary nation, so STFU.
Your opinions don't count for shit.
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Those aren’t even his opinions, he is (as always) just parroting propaganda talking points. Lately babs’ posts could have been “written” by an AI ‘bot. And probably were.
 
KCFlyer said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress.
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The constitution doesn't matter. Funny, because I thought they loved the constitution....yet they sit idly by while their constitution gets trashed.
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They love the Constitution like they love the Bible, or The Wealth of Nations. It's a prop to wave around when it favors your agenda, not a text to actually read, study, or understand, nor would they like most of their contents if they did. The written word is only as valuable as its rhetorical usefulness, usually as the archetype of an imagined past.
 
RVonse said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress.
Click to expand...


Click to expand...
DOGE wasn't just pulled out of Trump's ass. He cleverly took over an existing Obama agency called USDS which already had funding and legality and renamed it DOGE. So basically these lawsuits are going to be litigating against an Obama era created agency saying Obama and Congress gave it too much power. They are frivolous lawsuits with no merit.

strangesounds.substack.com

For anyone confused on how DOGE was created or even allowed to exist...

Here's a little bit of history...
strangesounds.substack.com strangesounds.substack.com
Click to expand...
How is it " without merit" just because Obama did it? Obama was himself sued for executive overreach many times, successfully in several cases.
 
bilby said:
KCFlyer said:
The constitution doesn't matter. Funny, because I thought they loved the constitution....yet they sit idly by while their constitution gets trashed.
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They love their constitution the same way they love their Bible - very selectively indeed.
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Ha! Wrote my post before seeing yours. Great minds think alike.
 
The scope of USDS is/was IT infrastructure, not firing random people from multiple agencies. The US Digital Services was made to troubleshoot I.T. problems, make the web pages/services more up-to-date, etc. That isn't what DOGE is. It's like the President making an Executive Order he will change the DoD to the Department of Agriculture. The President wouldn't have authority to do that. Congress set aside appropriations for the USDS. More importantly, such scope of fixing web pages etc is not dismantling govt departments. For example, the President cannot dismantle the Department of Education--it was created by an act of Congress.
 
Politesse said:
RVonse said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress.
Click to expand...


Click to expand...
DOGE wasn't just pulled out of Trump's ass. He cleverly took over an existing Obama agency called USDS which already had funding and legality and renamed it DOGE. So basically these lawsuits are going to be litigating against an Obama era created agency saying Obama and Congress gave it too much power. They are frivolous lawsuits with no merit.

strangesounds.substack.com

For anyone confused on how DOGE was created or even allowed to exist...

Here's a little bit of history...
strangesounds.substack.com strangesounds.substack.com
Click to expand...
How is it " without merit" just because Obama did it? Obama was himself sued for executive overreach many times, successfully in several cases.
Click to expand...

Obama didn't do it. The USDS was a small I.T. agency originally designed to fix healthcare.gov. Its initial funding came from discretionary funds set aside by Congress to the President, and its scope was all about making I.T. up-to-date, like web pages and front facing customer interfaces. See previous post...
 
Politesse said:
barbos said:
Jarhyn said:
with suspiciously good Internet access
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Why is that suspicious?
And how did you make such conclusion anyway?
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Don't name any names Jarhyn, They are listening!
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IKR? Like, some people know folks from Russia who have far less free time, and shittier Internet access that they have to fight much harder on to be able to freely say and do the things they do.

Lots of people fall out of windows in Russia.

So no, I won't name any names.
 
Politesse said:
RVonse said:
crazyfingers said:
New lawsuits against Musk for essentially having the power of a cabinet secretary but not having been approved by the Senate.

Two new cases accuse the ultra-wealthy CEO of illegally amassing too much government power without the accountability typically required of high-level executive branch officials. They are seeking court orders that would force Musk to halt the cost-cutting and information-gathering activities he has been spearheading through his U.S. DOGE Service.

The lawsuits rest on a provision of the Constitution that says powerful federal officers must be “established by law,” must be formally appointed by the president and must be confirmed by the Senate. Musk, of course, has not been confirmed by the Senate, and his role is amorphous and ill-defined. He has been operating out of the White House as the head of the newly created DOGE enterprise, which stands for Department of Government Efficiency but is not a formal government department. It was established by a Trump executive order, not by Congress.
Click to expand...


Click to expand...
DOGE wasn't just pulled out of Trump's ass. He cleverly took over an existing Obama agency called USDS which already had funding and legality and renamed it DOGE. So basically these lawsuits are going to be litigating against an Obama era created agency saying Obama and Congress gave it too much power. They are frivolous lawsuits with no merit.

strangesounds.substack.com

For anyone confused on how DOGE was created or even allowed to exist...

Here's a little bit of history...
strangesounds.substack.com strangesounds.substack.com
Click to expand...
How is it " without merit" just because Obama did it? Obama was himself sued for executive overreach many times, successfully in several cases.
Click to expand...
And I don't recall that Obama ever cried like a baby wailing that the judges who blocked him should be impeached and removed.
Vonse is deluded beyond repair, I'm afraid - despite being corrected at every turn he keeps coming up with more BS from more BS sources.
 
True! Obama was a man of very different character, and for the most part I liked him, at least as well as I like any politician. But I never held him above criticism, and I don't recall most other liberals doing so for that matter. We are surrounded by many of his troubling legacies, and I protested most of them at the time. I don't recall ever become aware of pre-DOGE, but I would have objected if I had. Creating a task force within a congressionally sanctioned and funded department is one thing, but it seems like even pre-DOGE was pressing against the limits of that, henve why it was attractibe to everyone's favorite African American tech vizier.
 
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