Buttigieg Presidential Campaign

[Derec]

And raising taxes on the rich.

Actually, Spendapalooza would have cut taxes on the rich, especially in the blue states, by increasing SALT deductions.

Note that benefits for lower income people (in blue) can only be claimed if you have children. People who earn less and have no kids would not have gotten shit from Spendapalooza except higher inflation.

And I consider pre K and child care infrastructure.

That stretches the word "infrastructure" into meaninglessness.
It echoes Kirsten Gillibrand's moronic tweet from when they tried to pass B³.

Some of the replies to that tweet are *chef's kiss*.

 

[Derec]

First off, you claimed that suggesting that Kamala Harris was on the left of the Democratic Party was "quite laughable".
I showed, in detail, with references to her Senate career, her 2019 presidential run, and finally her 2024 presidential run that she has been one of the most left-wing Senators and also one of the most left-wing 2020 candidates, competing with Bernie and Warren for the "progressive" vote.
You ignored all my points, focusing instead on the irrelevant side issue of calling me a "Rockefeller Republican"

Your age is no excuse not to google and is not proof against being a Rockefeller Republican, even if they are no longer in fashion. I frankly respect that pov even if I don’t agree with it entirely.

I did google it. The result was that the term "Rockefeller Republican" refers to actual Republicans, which I am not, and also refers to decades of 1930s to 1970s. So it does not apply to me. I am a Dem-leaning independent. Fiscally and foreign policy moderate, largely libertarian on personal behavior issues.

 

[laughing dog]

First off, you claimed that suggesting that Kamala Harris was on the left of the Democratic Party was "quite laughable".
I showed, in detail, with references to her Senate career, her 2019 presidential run, and finally her 2024 presidential run that she has been one of the most left-wing Senators and also one of the most left-wing 2020 candidates, competing with Bernie and Warren for the "progressive" vote.
You ignored all my points, focusing instead on the irrelevant side issue of calling me a "Rockefeller Republican"

Your age is no excuse not to google and is not proof against being a Rockefeller Republican, even if they are no longer in fashion. I frankly respect that pov even if I don’t agree with it entirely.

I did google it. The result was that the term "Rockefeller Republican" refers to actual Republicans, which I am not, and also refers to decades of 1930s to 1970s. So it does not apply to me.

If you had read a little further down, you'd have seen "The term refers to "[a] member of the Republican Party holding views likened to those of Nelson Rockefeller; a moderate or liberal Republican"."

I am a Dem-leaning independent. Fiscally and foreign policy moderate, largely libertarian on personal behavior issues.

The italicized bold-faced is a description of the Rockefeller Republican. The term was no meant as an insult back then, and I am pretty sure Toni did not mean it as one now.

 

[Toni]

First off, you claimed that suggesting that Kamala Harris was on the left of the Democratic Party was "quite laughable".
I showed, in detail, with references to her Senate career, her 2019 presidential run, and finally her 2024 presidential run that she has been one of the most left-wing Senators and also one of the most left-wing 2020 candidates, competing with Bernie and Warren for the "progressive" vote.
You ignored all my points, focusing instead on the irrelevant side issue of calling me a "Rockefeller Republican"

Your age is no excuse not to google and is not proof against being a Rockefeller Republican, even if they are no longer in fashion. I frankly respect that pov even if I don’t agree with it entirely.

I did google it. The result was that the term "Rockefeller Republican" refers to actual Republicans, which I am not, and also refers to decades of 1930s to 1970s. So it does not apply to me.

If you had read a little further down, you'd have seen "The term refers to "[a] member of the Republican Party holding views likened to those of Nelson Rockefeller; a moderate or liberal Republican"."

I am a Dem-leaning independent. Fiscally and foreign policy moderate, largely libertarian on personal behavior issues.

The italicized bold-faced is a description of the Rockefeller Republican. The term was no meant as an insult back then, and I am pretty sure Toni did not mean it as one now.

It's not at all an insult! While my own POV is somewhat different, I can respect the perspectives of a Rockefeller Republican. Frankly, I was giving Derec a benefit of doubt by not factoring in some of his backwards views on women and persons of color and other minorities.

 

[Derec]

If you had read a little further down, you'd have seen "The term refers to "[a] member of the Republican Party holding views likened to those of Nelson Rockefeller; a moderate or liberal Republican"."

[emphasis added]
It refers to
- a member of the Republican Party
- from a certain era
- holding particular views

At most I could fulfill one out of three.

The italicized bold-faced is a description of the Rockefeller Republican. The term was no meant as an insult back then, and I am pretty sure Toni did not mean it as one now.

In other words, Rockefeller Republican refers to Republicans from back in the day that hold views similar to some Dem-leaning independents of today.
I do not think Toni meant it as an insult. It's still not accurate.

 

[Derec]

It's not at all an insult! While my own POV is somewhat different, I can respect the perspectives of a Rockefeller Republican.

I do not think you meant it as an insult, but you certainly have been clinging to this issue in order to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about Kamala Harris being left-wing.

Frankly, I was giving Derec a benefit of doubt by not factoring in some of his backwards views on women and persons of color and other minorities.

I do not have any "backwards" views on women and so-called "persons of color". I think people should have the same rights and responsibilities regardless of skin color or genitalia. I think various special treatments, such as so-called "affirmative action" is what's backwards.

 

[laughing dog]

If you had read a little further down, you'd have seen "The term refers to "[a] member of the Republican Party holding views likened to those of Nelson Rockefeller; a moderate or liberal Republican"."

[emphasis added]
It refers to
- a member of the Republican Party
- from a certain era
- holding particular views

At most I could fulfill one out of three.

The italicized bold-faced is a description of the Rockefeller Republican. The term was no meant as an insult back then, and I am pretty sure Toni did not mean it as one now.

In other words, Rockefeller Republican refers to Republicans from back in the day that hold views similar to some Dem-leaning independents of today.
I do not think Toni meant it as an insult. It's still not accurate.

You are mistaken. As the Wiki indicated, it is also a broader meaning.

For some reason, you omitted the other part of my response (reproduced below in bold-faced italics)

Fiscally and foreign policy moderate, largely libertarian on personal behavior issues pretty much describes your views (in your own words).

You don't have to like it, but it is an apt description. Much more closer to the truth than your use of "leftist" to label anyone who disagrees with you.

 

[Toni]

It's not at all an insult! While my own POV is somewhat different, I can respect the perspectives of a Rockefeller Republican.

I do not think you meant it as an insult, but you certainly have been clinging to this issue in order to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about Kamala Harris being left-wing.

Frankly, I was giving Derec a benefit of doubt by not factoring in some of his backwards views on women and persons of color and other minorities.

I do not have any "backwards" views on women and so-called "persons of color". I think people should have the same rights and responsibilities regardless of skin color or genitalia. I think various special treatments, such as so-called "affirmative action" is what's backwards.

I’m not ‘clinging’ to anything.

Harris is not ‘left wing’ except by current US standards that are so far right of center that the word fascism is currently used to describe the direction the US is heading.

Your views on women certainly do seem centered on ( their) genitalia and seem to find their quality fixations to be negatively associated with their genitalia. Skin color as well. To the extent that any non-white non-cis male can only have achieved whatever they achieved because of affirmative action—at least judging by your posts.

 

[thebeave]

It's not at all an insult! While my own POV is somewhat different, I can respect the perspectives of a Rockefeller Republican.

I do not think you meant it as an insult, but you certainly have been clinging to this issue in order to avoid having to admit that you were wrong about Kamala Harris being left-wing.

Frankly, I was giving Derec a benefit of doubt by not factoring in some of his backwards views on women and persons of color and other minorities.

I do not have any "backwards" views on women and so-called "persons of color". I think people should have the same rights and responsibilities regardless of skin color or genitalia. I think various special treatments, such as so-called "affirmative action" is what's backwards.

I’m not ‘clinging’ to anything.

Harris is not ‘left wing’ except by current US standards that are so far right of center that the word fascism is currently used to describe the direction the US is heading.

Your views on women certainly do seem centered on ( their) genitalia and seem to find their quality fixations to be negatively associated with their genitalia. Skin color as well. To the extent that any non-white non-cis male can only have achieved whatever they achieved because of affirmative action—at least judging by your posts.

What Derec said about KH being far left is true, at least per her record as a Senator:

 

[Derec]

I’m not ‘clinging’ to anything.

Yes you are, but if you are ready to let go, I am fine with that.

Harris is not ‘left wing’ except by current US standards that are so far right of center that the word fascism is currently used to describe the direction the US is heading.

I have explained, in detail, why she is on the "left wing". Go back to post #206.
In brief,

• she was one of the most left-wing US Senators. That means she was to the left of most of her fellow Democratic Senators.
• she tried to compete with Bernie and Warren during the 2020 presidential race. For that purpose, she staked some very left-wing positions, like banning fracking and offshore drilling as well as support for ending private health insurance.
• She was to the left of the Biden administration when it came to her spending proposals during her ill-fated 2024 campaign

To say that she is only left-wing in comparison to the Trump administration is amazingly wrong.

Your views on women certainly do seem centered on ( their) genitalia and seem to find their quality fixations to be negatively associated with their genitalia. Skin color as well.

Bullshit. It is the Left that insists that gender and race should carry special treatment in e.g. hiring or university admissions.

To the extent that any non-white non-cis male can only have achieved whatever they achieved because of affirmative action—at least judging by your posts.

That is a gross misrepresentation of my posts. I do not think "any non-white non-cis male can only have achieved whatever they achieved because of affirmative action". But at the same time, as long as things like AA and DEI are practiced, certain people are given special treatment at the expense of discriminating against others on the basis of sex, race or geometric isomerism.
When Biden declared that he would only consider women for Veep (and he later only considered black women), that is an example of discrimination I am talking about. Likewise when he declared that he would only black women for SCOTUS seat. Likewise when Newsom only considered black women for US Senate seat from California.
It is not the case that every black woman got where she is due to racial and sex preferences, but in these cases there wasn't even an attempt to hide that that was what was going on.
"Affirmative action" is a doubly perverse policy. On the one hand, it overtly discriminates against some people, which obviously harms them. But I maintain that it in the end also harms those whom it purports to help. When an institution practices a policy of discriminating on the basis of race and sex, those belonging to those groups can never be sure if they would have been admitted under a neutral policy that did not discriminate.

I have explained my positions to you and others many times. And yet you, time after time, choose to misrepresent it.

 

[Tigers!]

When was the last time that someone in this thread actually said something about Pete's campaign?
I'm not a yank so I will claim ignorance about Pete's camapign

 

[Politesse]

Not much to say about an as yet imaginary campaign.

 

[TSwizzle]

There's no way Pete runs.

Watch Pete Buttigieg fight back happy tears discussing life with husband Chasten and twins

He's not presidential material. Hillary has bigger balls than simpering Pete.

 

[Derec]

When was the last time that someone in this thread actually said something about Pete's campaign?
I'm not a yank so I will claim ignorance about Pete's camapign

What Politesse said.
I will also defend the digression over Kamala's campaign. No way can we meaningfully discuss possible future campaigns without being honest about past ones. And some on here won't even acknowledge that KH was to the left of the Democratic Party median.

As to Mayor Pete, he is still very young. But he ideally needs more seasoning. Senate or governor. Apparently, he mulled running for Michigan Senate in 2026 since Gary Peters won't seek reelection, but decided against it. Isn't he from Indiana though?

 

[Politesse]

There's no way Pete runs.

Watch Pete Buttigieg fight back happy tears discussing life with husband Chasten and twins

He's not presidential material. Hillary has bigger balls than simpering Pete.

Yes, how could a good father possibly be a good president? It has to be an abusive trust fund baby.

 

[TSwizzle]

There's no way Pete runs.

Watch Pete Buttigieg fight back happy tears discussing life with husband Chasten and twins

He's not presidential material. Hillary has bigger balls than simpering Pete.

Yes, how could a good father possibly be a good president? It has to be an abusive trust fund baby.

Maybe he's a good mother. Still wouldn't make for a good president though.

 

[Politesse]

Ah, so a good mother should not be president. My apologies. And a good father shouldn't give a shit about his kids, I suppose? Just hand them off for the staff to raise?

 

[TSwizzle]

Ah, so a good mother should not be president. My apologies. And a good father shouldn't give a shit about his kids, I suppose? Just hand them off for the staff to raise?

No matter how good you think Pete's parenting skills are, he is not presidential material.

 

[Politesse]

Ah, so a good mother should not be president. My apologies. And a good father shouldn't give a shit about his kids, I suppose? Just hand them off for the staff to raise?

No matter how good you think Pete's parenting skills are, he is not presidential material.

You mean because he's not a straight, white, Republican dipshit with a dick for a brain and a "roman salute" to a dead dictator for a heart?

 

[TSwizzle]

Ah, so a good mother should not be president. My apologies. And a good father shouldn't give a shit about his kids, I suppose? Just hand them off for the staff to raise?

No matter how good you think Pete's parenting skills are, he is not presidential material.

You mean because he's not a straight, white, Republican dipshit with a dick for a brain and a "roman salute" to a dead dictator for a heart?

No, that is not what I mean. Although Pete does make Trudeau look like Rocky Balboa.