Buttigieg Presidential Campaign

[Toni]

So what you are saying is that you are a Rockefeller Republican.

I wasn't even born when Rockefeller was Veep, so no.
I think it is quite sad that you think wanting Dems to choose a good candidate is somehow being a Republican.

Do you have any actual comments about the points I made, or do you just have snark to throw around?

So you don’t know what a Rockefeller Republican is. Google could have helped you.

Here’s a link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican


I wasn’t being snarky but trying to make a point. I actually think you would very much be in line with this ideology. That is not an insult of any kind.

You seem to be anti-‘big government’ and vehemently opposed to what you consider identity politics, at least in so far as they give equal weight to women and persons of color. I, myself wish that it were not relevant what a person’s gender or race or religion or orientation or country of origin were but we are definitely not there. YOU are very far from there as afaik, no female or POC candidate or officeholder can be mentioned without you fixating on the sex/gender and/or race.

You rail about how far left Harris is which is quite laughable. But then you think I’m far left radical. My kids tend to see me as at best, middle of the road.

My POV is that race, gender, religion, country of origin should have no role in determining fitness for any job or office. You are among those who demonstrate that those things do matter to people like you and in your mind, the only reason that individual is selected for anything good.

To be fair, I've always considered Derec was more of a McGovern Democrat anyways,

Derec is a moderate, just like me. He’s a little to my right. But if we want our country back, the dems need a candidate who can appeal to the left and the middle. I liked Harris. But it drive me crazy that she couldn’t articulate an economic plan (she ran from economic issues). It was a gigantic mistake to avoid Joe Rogan. She missed out on the new media; podcasts.

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

I cannot imagine anyone with a lick of sense believing that tarrifs are a decent idea.

 

[Elixir]

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

He needs another plan? No.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So what you are saying is that you are a Rockefeller Republican.

I wasn't even born when Rockefeller was Veep, so no.
I think it is quite sad that you think wanting Dems to choose a good candidate is somehow being a Republican.

Do you have any actual comments about the points I made, or do you just have snark to throw around?

So you don’t know what a Rockefeller Republican is. Google could have helped you.

Here’s a link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican


I wasn’t being snarky but trying to make a point. I actually think you would very much be in line with this ideology. That is not an insult of any kind.

You seem to be anti-‘big government’ and vehemently opposed to what you consider identity politics, at least in so far as they give equal weight to women and persons of color. I, myself wish that it were not relevant what a person’s gender or race or religion or orientation or country of origin were but we are definitely not there. YOU are very far from there as afaik, no female or POC candidate or officeholder can be mentioned without you fixating on the sex/gender and/or race.

You rail about how far left Harris is which is quite laughable. But then you think I’m far left radical. My kids tend to see me as at best, middle of the road.

My POV is that race, gender, religion, country of origin should have no role in determining fitness for any job or office. You are among those who demonstrate that those things do matter to people like you and in your mind, the only reason that individual is selected for anything good.

To be fair, I've always considered Derec was more of a McGovern Democrat anyways,

Derec is a moderate, just like me. He’s a little to my right. But if we want our country back, the dems need a candidate who can appeal to the left and the middle. I liked Harris. But it drive me crazy that she couldn’t articulate an economic plan (she ran from economic issues). It was a gigantic mistake to avoid Joe Rogan. She missed out on the new media; podcasts.

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

I cannot imagine anyone with a lick of sense believing that tarrifs are a decent idea.

Yep it should be pretty damn easy for a smart politician to make the claim that Trumps tariffs, layoffs, and general craziness are putting us into a recession.

 

[KCFlyer]

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

Bidenflation and Groceries. He was going to bring those prices down...and bring them down fast. The other economic plan was to talk about how shitty the economy was. Once elected he said it wouldn't be easy to get those Biden prices back down and MAGA eats it up. After that the de facto Republican plan is a tax cut.

I cannot imagine anyone with a lick of sense believing that tarrifs are a decent idea.

Most don't, but I think that this time around there is nobody around to keep Peter Navarro away from him.

 

[ZiprHead]

It was a gigantic mistake to avoid Joe Rogan. She missed out on the new media; podcasts.

She didn't avoid Joe Rogan. Rogan avoided her.

Rogan confirmed in late October — just after publishing his sit-down with Trump — that he had been in negotiations with the Harris team for an interview, noting that talks had come to a standstill because of Harris’ demands. At the time, he expressed that he was still open to a future interview, and relayed that the Harris camp hadn’t canceled either.

Following Trump’s election victory, Harris’ team suggested that the president’s interview was the factor that killed negotiations.

“We were hoping to fit it in around that but ultimately weren’t able to do it,” Harris campaign senior adviser Stephanie Cutter said on “Pod Save America.” “As it turns out, that was the day that Trump was taping his Joe Rogan [appearance], which they had never confirmed to us. We just kind of figured that out in the lead-up to it.”

Rogan went on to endorse then-candidate Trump on the eve of the election.

The section from “Fight” shed more light on what happened, alleging that initial negotiations between Harris deputy campaign manager Rob Flaherty and Rogan’s reps were rocky. According to the book, Rogan sent them his list of interview conditions on Oct. 11, which included “no staff in the studio, no topic restrictions, and Harris would have to sign a waiver.”

Additionally, “Harris would have to come to Austin, Texas,” according to the Rogan team, though they signaled there was some slight leeway on this condition.

The Harris campaign responded, saying that “Harris would be happy to talk about social media censorship, weed, and other issues they thought would be of most interest to his listeners.” However, Rogan disagreed.

As the book said, “Joe just wants to talk about the economy, the border, and abortion.”

Then the dispute over where Harris would meet Rogan ensued. Flaherty proposed an interview in Michigan, where the then-vice president would be on the campaign trail. “No-go, the Rogan team said after reaching the host on a weeklong hunting trip. Austin or nothing,” Parnes and Allen wrote.

According to their book, “Harris had less than zero reason to be in Texas,” as “she was in battleground-or-bust mode.”

“Plus, a detour to Texas might smell like desperation to the press and a waste of money to donors,” the authors also noted.

Apparently, Harris campaign chief Jennifer O’Malley Dillon found a solution, telling Rogan’s team that Harris would travel “to Houston for a rally — under the cover of visiting a state with one of the nation’s most restrictive abortion laws — to put her in proximity to Austin,” where she could go on the show.

Harris flew to the state under the auspices of fighting for reproductive rights, though Allen and Parnes wrote, “Only a few people knew the real reason: the whole Houston rally was built to put her in proximity to Rogan.”

Despite Harris making this concession, Rogan’s team had more demands that seemed to doom the meeting. When Flaherty mentioned Harris going to Rogan’s studio on Oct. 25, they dodged again.

“Wish we had known about this sooner, because he has the 25th blocked out as a personal day,” the Rogan team said.

When Flaherty countered with Saturday morning, the podcast host’s people replied, “Only if it’s before 8:30 a.m.” The excerpt appeared to suggest that message all but killed the talks between the two camps. The book alleged that shortly afterward, the Harris camp found out that Rogan spoke with Trump on his “personal day.”

Joe Rogan’s Trump episode was a ‘traumatic event’ for Kamala Harris – and new book excerpt reveals how VP’s proposed interview fell apart

The book, ‘Fight: Inside the Wildest Battle for the White House,’ detailed how Rogan and the Harris camp could never agree to a time and date.

nypost.com

 

[Derec]

So you don’t know what a Rockefeller Republican is. Google could have helped you.

As I said, I wasn't even born yet. From the very first sentence of your wiki link:

The Rockefeller Republicans were members of the United States Republican Party (GOP) in the 1930s–1970s [...]

I am also not a member of the Republican Party.

I wasn’t being snarky but trying to make a point. I actually think you would very much be in line with this ideology. That is not an insult of any kind.

I freely admit that I am moderate on things like fiscal issues or immigration, and libertarian on personal liberty issues. I do not say "liberal" here, as so-called "liberals" tend to hold decidedly illiberal and authoritarian views on things like sex work, but that's an issue for another thread.
I also tend to vote D ever since I started voting. "Dem-leaning independent" would be a better descriptor than "Rockefeller Republican".

You seem to be anti-‘big government’

I am against government being too big, but also against government being too small. I support many things federal government does, even as I realize that there are inefficiencies and waste that should have been addressed a long time ago. But of course, Elmo's DOGE is like renovating an edifice by dynamiting the foundation.
And of course, I am against Biden's $3.5T Spendapalooza that came right after federal government had to spend unprecedented amount of moneys on the COVID Pandemic.

and vehemently opposed to what you consider identity politics, at least in so far as they give equal weight to women and persons of color.

I am against Identity Politics, as it divides us. I am all for equal rights for men and women, or people regardless of race. I am against efforts like so-called "affirmative action" that discriminates against some in order to increase percentage of others artificially. Is that what you mean by "equal weight"? Equal outcomes by race and gender, rather than treating people as individuals?

And note that so-called "affirmative action" was another albatross around Biden and Harris in 2024. They clung to it, despite it being so unpopular a policy that even lefty California decisively rejected a referendum seeking to reinstate it.
‘This Is Not a Normal Court’: Biden Denounces Affirmative-Action Ruling
The Failed Affirmative Action Campaign That Shook Democrats

I, myself wish that it were not relevant what a person’s gender or race or religion or orientation or country of origin were but we are definitely not there. YOU are very far from there as afaik, no female or POC candidate or officeholder can be mentioned without you fixating on the sex/gender and/or race.

Wrong. It's actually diametrically opposite to reality. It is you who are fixating on Kamala Harris' race and gender, while I am focusing on her past positions and how she ran her campaigns.

You rail about how far left Harris is which is quite laughable. But then you think I’m far left radical. My kids tend to see me as at best, middle of the road.

Says perhaps more about your kids than about me. How old are your kids? Too many younger people these days have embraced socialism, while others have drifted to extreme right.

And why are you saying that saying that Kamala is far left is "quite laughable? She was one of the most left-wing Senators while in office.

From here. She also staked quite left-wing positions during her run for the 2020 nomination.
Do you not think that seeking to ban all fracking and offshore drilling is left-wing?

How about her having wanted to get rid of private health insurance?

In 2024, she also led with some lefty ideas on spending.
Harris wants to give a $6,000 tax credit to parents of newborns. Here's what to know.
Harris to propose up to $25K in down-payment support for 1st-time homebuyers
Harris promises 1 million forgivable loans for Black businesses

How can you possibly believe that all this is not quite left?

My POV is that race, gender, religion, country of origin should have no role in determining fitness for any job or office.

Is it? Why then are you focusing on Harris' race and gender and ignoring her positions or her bad judgment during both her campaigns?

Also, while race and gender are immutable qualities that should not matter, religion is different. It's not an immutable attribute but rather a set of ideas somebody subscribes to and practices he or she follows, and those are very much relevant to somebody being an elected official.

Country of origin also can matter. For one, there is a constitutional restriction on electing naturalized citizens to presidency. Second, even for lesser offices, growing up in a different country affects who a candidate is. Don't tell me that e.g. Ilhan Omar growing up in Somalia does not affect her politics!

You are among those who demonstrate that those things do matter to people like you and in your mind, the only reason that individual is selected for anything good.

First of all, I voted for Kamala Harris, because she was clearly the lesser of the two weevils.
And my misgivings about her have nothing to do with her race and gender, but solely with her political positions and the lack of judgment she demonstrated.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

I cannot imagine anyone with a lick of sense believing that tarrifs are a decent idea.

You're in luck. The Atlantic has a fresh article out answering this very question.

The Wild Trump Theory Making the Rounds on Wall Street

But have you considered the possibility that it is, in fact, the first step of a carefully orchestrated master plan to revive American manufacturing, reduce the national debt, reconfigure the international-alliance system, and deliver the greatest geopolitical deal of the century?

That is the thrust of a new theory that has been gaining currency in Washington, on Wall Street, and in the financial press. The grand bargain that Trump is supposedly planning to strike has even been given a name: the Mar-a-Lago Accord.

This is all part of Trump's genius. It's going to be beautiful.

 

[Derec]

The people who are adamantly against Lia Thomas in swimming are generally the same people mocking the USWNT soccer team, boycotting the Women's World Cup because the women wanted better training facilities and payouts for their performances.

[citation needed]

These same people were applauding Butker for his 1950s view on women. They aren't fighting for fairness in women's sports, they just want transgender people to go away, mostly because transgender people confuse them.

Plenty of people who watch women's sports are also against male-bodied trans women participating. As are people who generally support rights of trans people.
This activist-fueled maximalism is doing a great disservice to the trans community.

 

[Derec]

Competition from women scares them as does the idea that ‘one of their own’ might be willing to voluntarily give up male genitalia—and privilege

Many (most?) trans women do not have bottom surgery and thus are not giving up their genitalia.

Besides, in the contemporary world there is more female privilege than male privilege anyway. This is not the 1950s any more, and anecdotes from your youth no longer apply.

 

[Derec]

He needs another plan? No.

Concepts of a plan ...

 

[laughing dog]

Besides, in the contemporary world there is more female privilege than male privilege anyway. This is not the 1950s any more, and anecdotes from your youth no longer apply.

How does one quantify privilege in order to draw conclusions?

 

[Derec]

Seems to me anyone paying enough attention to politics to know how far left Harris is on the political spectrum would also recognize what a danger Trump is to our country.

Trump is a danger to our country. Very much so. Which is why it pains me that Dems lost two very winnable elections against him because of poor campaigning and even worse candidate selection. And nothing will change as long as people like Toni insist that Kamala Harris was not a bad candidate and that her loss was because she is female and blackish.

Too many Republican-leaning independents thought that they did not like Trump very much but were afraid of more Biden-Harris policies.
Remember, Biden was elected to restore normalcy. Instead, the left of the Party decided that he should be an FDR-style transformational president instead, and pulled him to the left. And that made many people nervous.

 

[ZiprHead]

And of course, I am against Biden's $3.5T Spendapalooza that came right after federal government had to spend unprecedented amount of moneys on the COVID Pandemic.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/24/tax-revenue-collected-by-the-irs-set-to-plummet-report-says.html

Officials at the IRS and Treasury Department are anticipating tax revenue to drop more than 10% by April 15 compared with last year, The Washington Post reported Saturday, citing three people with knowledge of the situation.

The loss of tax receipts is expected as more individuals and businesses don’t file taxes or attempt to avoid paying balances owed to the IRS. The amount of lost federal revenue could top $500 billion, the paper said.

Officials said the prediction is directly linked to shifting taxpayer behavior and President Donald Trump’s cuts at the IRS, the Post said.

And that just in one year. The Biden spending was over ten years. Biden's would have cost 350 billion per year and would have created numerous needed infrastructure projects and provided work for thousands.

 

[Derec]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/24/tax-revenue-collected-by-the-irs-set-to-plummet-report-says.html

And that just in one year.

Yes, Trump is bad. Almost all of us here agree on that.

The Biden spending was over ten years. Biden's would have cost 350 billion per year and would have created numerous needed infrastructure projects and provided work for thousands.

No, the infrastructure projects were in a separate bill. Spendapalooza was about non-infrastructure spending.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

So what you are saying is that you are a Rockefeller Republican.

I wasn't even born when Rockefeller was Veep, so no.
I think it is quite sad that you think wanting Dems to choose a good candidate is somehow being a Republican.

Do you have any actual comments about the points I made, or do you just have snark to throw around?

So you don’t know what a Rockefeller Republican is. Google could have helped you.

Here’s a link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller_Republican


I wasn’t being snarky but trying to make a point. I actually think you would very much be in line with this ideology. That is not an insult of any kind.

You seem to be anti-‘big government’ and vehemently opposed to what you consider identity politics, at least in so far as they give equal weight to women and persons of color. I, myself wish that it were not relevant what a person’s gender or race or religion or orientation or country of origin were but we are definitely not there. YOU are very far from there as afaik, no female or POC candidate or officeholder can be mentioned without you fixating on the sex/gender and/or race.

You rail about how far left Harris is which is quite laughable. But then you think I’m far left radical. My kids tend to see me as at best, middle of the road.

My POV is that race, gender, religion, country of origin should have no role in determining fitness for any job or office. You are among those who demonstrate that those things do matter to people like you and in your mind, the only reason that individual is selected for anything good.

To be fair, I've always considered Derec was more of a McGovern Democrat anyways,

Derec is a moderate, just like me. He’s a little to my right. But if we want our country back, the dems need a candidate who can appeal to the left and the middle. I liked Harris. But it drive me crazy that she couldn’t articulate an economic plan (she ran from economic issues). It was a gigantic mistake to avoid Joe Rogan. She missed out on the new media; podcasts.

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

I cannot imagine anyone with a lick of sense believing that tarrifs are a decent idea.

People are really as stupid as "hurr durr he said tariffs therefore he has a plan hurr durr" and that's why they voted for him.

 

[ZiprHead]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/03/24/tax-revenue-collected-by-the-irs-set-to-plummet-report-says.html

And that just in one year.

Yes, Trump is bad. Almost all of us here agree on that.

The Biden spending was over ten years. Biden's would have cost 350 billion per year and would have created numerous needed infrastructure projects and provided work for thousands.

No, the infrastructure projects were in a separate bill. Spendapalooza was about non-infrastructure spending.

It would create a universal pre-K program, assist families with child care and send them the enhanced child tax credit for another year. It would also provide beefed-up subsidies on the Affordable Care Act exchanges through 2025 and offer federal help to those who fall below the poverty line.

It would funnel nearly $570 billion into climate measures, attempt to address affordable housing shortfalls and provide money to parents to buy their kids food over the summer.

The legislation would increase the deficit by $367 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. But that doesn’t count revenue raised from enhanced tax enforcement, which the office found would bring in $207 billion over 10 years.

And raising taxes on the rich. And I consider pre K and child care infrastructure.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/12/politics/house-reconciliation-package-explainer/index.html

More details in the link.

 

[Patooka]

Ok, but what was Trump’s economic plan? What is his plan, other than to stay out of prison, enrich himself and lay waste to our democracy, and anyone who stands in Putin’s way?

He needs another plan? No.

To be fair, the last one was only a concept, so strictly not a plan.

 

[Toni]

So you don’t know what a Rockefeller Republican is. Google could have helped you.

As I said, I wasn't even born yet. From the very first sentence of your wiki link:

The Rockefeller Republicans were members of the United States Republican Party (GOP) in the 1930s–1970s [...]

I am also not a member of the Republican Party.

I wasn’t being snarky but trying to make a point. I actually think you would very much be in line with this ideology. That is not an insult of any kind.

I freely admit that I am moderate on things like fiscal issues or immigration, and libertarian on personal liberty issues. I do not say "liberal" here, as so-called "liberals" tend to hold decidedly illiberal and authoritarian views on things like sex work, but that's an issue for another thread.
I also tend to vote D ever since I started voting. "Dem-leaning independent" would be a better descriptor than "Rockefeller Republican".

You seem to be anti-‘big government’

I am against government being too big, but also against government being too small. I support many things federal government does, even as I realize that there are inefficiencies and waste that should have been addressed a long time ago. But of course, Elmo's DOGE is like renovating an edifice by dynamiting the foundation.
And of course, I am against Biden's $3.5T Spendapalooza that came right after federal government had to spend unprecedented amount of moneys on the COVID Pandemic.

and vehemently opposed to what you consider identity politics, at least in so far as they give equal weight to women and persons of color.

I am against Identity Politics, as it divides us. I am all for equal rights for men and women, or people regardless of race. I am against efforts like so-called "affirmative action" that discriminates against some in order to increase percentage of others artificially. Is that what you mean by "equal weight"? Equal outcomes by race and gender, rather than treating people as individuals?

And note that so-called "affirmative action" was another albatross around Biden and Harris in 2024. They clung to it, despite it being so unpopular a policy that even lefty California decisively rejected a referendum seeking to reinstate it.
‘This Is Not a Normal Court’: Biden Denounces Affirmative-Action Ruling
The Failed Affirmative Action Campaign That Shook Democrats

I, myself wish that it were not relevant what a person’s gender or race or religion or orientation or country of origin were but we are definitely not there. YOU are very far from there as afaik, no female or POC candidate or officeholder can be mentioned without you fixating on the sex/gender and/or race.

Wrong. It's actually diametrically opposite to reality. It is you who are fixating on Kamala Harris' race and gender, while I am focusing on her past positions and how she ran her campaigns.

You rail about how far left Harris is which is quite laughable. But then you think I’m far left radical. My kids tend to see me as at best, middle of the road.

Says perhaps more about your kids than about me. How old are your kids? Too many younger people these days have embraced socialism, while others have drifted to extreme right.

And why are you saying that saying that Kamala is far left is "quite laughable? She was one of the most left-wing Senators while in office.
View attachment 49884
From here. She also staked quite left-wing positions during her run for the 2020 nomination.
Do you not think that seeking to ban all fracking and offshore drilling is left-wing?

How about her having wanted to get rid of private health insurance?

In 2024, she also led with some lefty ideas on spending.
Harris wants to give a $6,000 tax credit to parents of newborns. Here's what to know.
Harris to propose up to $25K in down-payment support for 1st-time homebuyers
Harris promises 1 million forgivable loans for Black businesses

How can you possibly believe that all this is not quite left?

My POV is that race, gender, religion, country of origin should have no role in determining fitness for any job or office.

Is it? Why then are you focusing on Harris' race and gender and ignoring her positions or her bad judgment during both her campaigns?

Also, while race and gender are immutable qualities that should not matter, religion is different. It's not an immutable attribute but rather a set of ideas somebody subscribes to and practices he or she follows, and those are very much relevant to somebody being an elected official.

Country of origin also can matter. For one, there is a constitutional restriction on electing naturalized citizens to presidency. Second, even for lesser offices, growing up in a different country affects who a candidate is. Don't tell me that e.g. Ilhan Omar growing up in Somalia does not affect her politics!

You are among those who demonstrate that those things do matter to people like you and in your mind, the only reason that individual is selected for anything good.

First of all, I voted for Kamala Harris, because she was clearly the lesser of the two weevils.
And my misgivings about her have nothing to do with her race and gender, but solely with her political positions and the lack of judgment she demonstrated.

Your age is no excuse not to google and is not proof against being a Rockefeller Republican, even if they are no longer in fashion. I frankly respect that pov even if I don’t agree with it entirely.

 

[southernhybrid]

Seems to me anyone paying enough attention to politics to know how far left Harris is on the political spectrum would also recognize what a danger Trump is to our country.

Trump is a danger to our country. Very much so. Which is why it pains me that Dems lost two very winnable elections against him because of poor campaigning and even worse candidate selection. And nothing will change as long as people like Toni insist that Kamala Harris was not a bad candidate and that her loss was because she is female and blackish.

Too many Republican-leaning independents thought that they did not like Trump very much but were afraid of more Biden-Harris policies.
Remember, Biden was elected to restore normalcy. Instead, the left of the Party decided that he should be an FDR-style transformational president instead, and pulled him to the left. And that made many people nervous.

I'm not sure where to put this and considering how many sources of news I read, I can't remember which one I read it in, but I read that about 100 young voters who didn't vote were interviewed. About half of them said that Harris wasn't progressive enough and about half of them said she was too progressive. How can the Dems, usually considered the big tent party, instead of a big sheep party, win when people, especially some of the younger ones, won't vote because the candidates don't meet their views closely enough? I had to wait until I was 21 to vote and I've never missed an election. It's the only tiny bit of power that we have as average Americans, but far too many don't want to be bothered to vote for one stupid reason or another.

There is evidence she lost some voters due to her gender, and/or her race, but people who don't vote at all are imo, the biggest problem in most elections. I worked with young women who never voted although a few of the young Black women finally voted when Obama ran. It's crazy. We have two candidates with the potential to win in each presidential election. Neither are perfect. Neither will agree with anyone on all issues, but one is always better or worse than the other one. Vote for the better one or if you like to see things in a negative light then vote for the lesser of the two evils. Too many people voted for Trump because they were stupid enough to believe that he could magically lower grocery prices, even if they didn't like him. A lot of Democrats even voted for Trump because of their stupidity. I'll end it with that.

 

[Tigers!]

There is evidence she lost some voters due to her gender, and/or her race, but people who don't vote at all are imo, the biggest problem in most elections. I worked with young women who never voted although a few of the young Black women finally voted when Obama ran. It's crazy. We have two candidates with the potential to win in each presidential election. Neither are perfect. Neither will agree with anyone on all issues, but one is always better or worse than the other one. Vote for the better one or if you like to see things in a negative light then vote for the lesser of the two evils. Too many people voted for Trump because they were stupid enough to believe that he could magically lower grocery prices, even if they didn't like him. A lot of Democrats even voted for Trump because of their stupidity. I'll end it with that.

When the number of non-voters (90 million) exceeds either Trump or Harris' vote (~70 million) then Houston, we have a problem.

Brexit and the US electoral system are the 2 best reasons for compulsory voting (or getting your name marked off for the purists).