Dem Post Mortem

[thebeave]

Because it's true, and it's the reason their country is going to shit.

Why do you assume it is true?

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black. Silly man:

2008 United States presidential election

Obama won a decisive victory over McCain, winning the Electoral College and popular vote by sizable margins, and flipping nine states that had voted Republican in 2004: Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, and Virginia, as well as Nebraska's 2nd congressional district. Obama won every state in the Great Lakes region. Obama received the largest share of the popular vote won by a Democrat since Lyndon B. Johnson in 1964 and was the first Democrat to win an outright majority of the popular vote since Jimmy Carter in 1976. At the time, Obama also received the most popular votes in history, a record which would be broken in 2020.

 

[bilby]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black.

Being black is very clearly less of an issue than being a woman, in US Presidential politics.

Women are a FAR larger proportion of the US population than Black people, and yet they are even more grossly underrepresented in the Office of President - 0/47 is infinitely less than 1/47, and is a fuckton less than the ~51.1% of the US population who are women.

 

[thebeave]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black.

Being black is very clearly less of an issue than being a woman, in US Presidential politics.

Women are a FAR larger proportion of the US population than Black people, and yet they are even more grossly underrepresented in the Office of President - 0/47 is infinitely less than 1/47, and is a fuckton less than the ~51.1% of the US population who are women.

OK, well at least we got Biden's race blaming pushed back somewhat. On The View interview, he referenced her "mixed-race" heritage as part of the reason she lost. Which is an odd thing to claim, as Obama is mixed race as well and it wasn't an issue for him. It may have even benefited him. Just goes to show Biden was making shit up. Hillary almost certainly would have won in 2016 had she spent time campaigning in the Rust Belt. But she took those votes for granted, while Trump went in there and campaigned for their votes. And she handily won the popular vote, so its a little bit of a stretch to say she lost due to sexism. In 2020, there were 6 women (including Kamala) out of the initial 28 candidates for the Democrat ticket but ulltimately the Dems decided to go with the boring old white guy. Was it because of sexism? I don't know, you'll have to ask them.

 

[TSwizzle]

Kamala is such a dope.



Doritos indeed.

 

[laughing dog]

All I know is Trump lost to a male Democrat and beat two female Democrats (one of the barely).

So, it does seem likely that sexism might have played a contributing factor in his victories.

 

[ZiprHead]

Kamala Harris was a better candidate than Trump.

It is utterly irrelevant what her weaknesses or strengths were versus any standard other than Trump.

The only areas where she was not clearly and obviously superior to Trump, by a HUGE margin, were her ability to appeal to sexist and/or racist voters.

The press coverage she got was absolutely terrible, especially compared to Trump. Trump said stupid shit and it was mostly reported without question. Kamala said smart stuff but was mostly ignored because it wasn't sensational.

Full press coverage of every Trump rally. Many Kamala rallies ignored or just given cursory coverage.

 

[TomC]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black.

In 2008, the Republicans had left this country at the bottom of such a deep hole, across the board, the Democrats could have nominated a Mexican lesbian with AIDS in a wheelchair and won.
Tom

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

You should be blaming Trump and his enablers from the GOP to the Kremlin and beyond.

Unlike Trump and the GOP, Kamala and the Dems were supposed to work to prevent Trump winning. They did a piss-poor job, and it is correct to blame them.

No, their job was to work to win. It was the voters job to prevent Trump winning, and the voters failed at the job (either by voting for Trump or not voting). They do have one excuse for their failure, and that was that the media failed even worse, because they put their own short term interests ahead of journalistic integrity.

 

[thebeave]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black.

In 2008, the Republicans had left this country at the bottom of such a deep hole, across the board, the Democrats could have nominated a Mexican lesbian with AIDS in a wheelchair and won.
Tom

Shhhh...not so loud. I understand there are Democrat political strategists lurking in this forum, looking for fresh ideas for 2028.

 

[Derec]

Being black is very clearly less of an issue than being a woman, in US Presidential politics.
Women are a FAR larger proportion of the US population than Black people, and yet they are even more grossly underrepresented in the Office of President - 0/47 is infinitely less than 1/47, and is a fuckton less than the ~51.1% of the US population who are women.

This kind of "analysis" ignores the individual qualities of candidates and the circumstances of each election. It reduces people to featureless representatives of sex and race categories.
The reason Obama succeeded where Hillary and Harris failed is that he was a great candidate, and they weren't. Not because being black is less of an issue.
Also, Obama prevailed in a fiercely contested primary election. Hillary had less competition (and DNC strongly favored her) in 2016, and Kamala was foisted on us without a primary season or even some other form of an open selection process.

 

[Derec]

In 2008, the Republicans had left this country at the bottom of such a deep hole, across the board, the Democrats could have nominated a Mexican lesbian with AIDS in a wheelchair and won.

I have faith in Hillary. Had she won the 2008 primary, I am sure she'd still have found some way to fuck it up for Democrats.

 

[Tigers!]

You should be blaming Trump and his enablers from the GOP to the Kremlin and beyond.

Unlike Trump and the GOP, Kamala and the Dems were supposed to work to prevent Trump winning. They did a piss-poor job, and it is correct to blame them.

No, their job was to work to win. It was the voters job to prevent Trump winning, and the voters failed at the job (either by voting for Trump or not voting). They do have one excuse for their failure, and that was that the media failed even worse, because they put their own short term interests ahead of journalistic integrity.

The voters job is to vote.
If they are given such poor candidates from which to choose that is hardly their fault.
I'd rather Trump not have been elected but the parties failed in their role to provide worthy enough candidates and/or policies.

 

[Derec]

All I know is Trump lost to a male Democrat and beat two female Democrats (one of the barely).
So, it does seem likely that sexism might have played a contributing factor in his victories.

Not really. It's a very small sample and the three candidates were very different from each other in ways unrelated to their skin color or genitalia.
Moreover, the circumstances were very different in each of these races, so that a comparison is virtually impossible. 2020 was especially different. I think that without the Pandemic Trump had a decent chance of winning that one. I am not even sure Biden would have been the nominee if it weren't for COVID.

 

[Swammerdami]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black. Silly man:

After Truman's election in 1948, the same Party has retained the White House for more than 2 terms only ONCE (1 time). That was in 1988 when the incumbent Ronald Reagan was extremely popular.

The situation in 2008 was the opposite: The GOP was seeking a third term but George W. Bush had become extremely UNpopular. Almost any Democratic candidate would have won the Presidency that year.

HTH.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

All I know is Trump lost to a male Democrat and beat two female Democrats (one of the barely).
So, it does seem likely that sexism might have played a contributing factor in his victories.

Not really. It's a very small sample and the three candidates were very different from each other in ways unrelated to their skin color or genitalia.
Moreover, the circumstances were very different in each of these races, so that a comparison is virtually impossible. 2020 was especially different. I think that without the Pandemic Trump had a decent chance of winning that one. I am not even sure Biden would have been the nominee if it weren't for COVID.

2024 was unique as well as inflation had reared it's ugly head after an absence of over a generation. I'm uncertain why Trump lost in 2020. I know why he should have lost.

Harris lost because of inflation. The surprise in 2024 was less her loss and more how it mimicked Clinton's. There was a presumption that Clinton goofed in the Blue Wall states. Harris didn't make those same mistakes... and lost all the same. And with Harris being post Dobbs, it was even a larger surprise to see women literally (actually I suppose that is metaphorically) choose the wallet over the uterus in the General election, where as it appeared likewise in the Mid-terms.. Typically the Dems do better in the General than the mid-term. And more confusing still, the Dems held Senate seats in states Harris lost.

Harris is repeatedly called an awful candidate, but for an awful candidate, it didn't give Trump any coat-tails for candidates to get across the line in the Senate races.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black.

Being black is very clearly less of an issue than being a woman, in US Presidential politics.

Women are a FAR larger proportion of the US population than Black people, and yet they are even more grossly underrepresented in the Office of President - 0/47 is infinitely less than 1/47, and is a fuckton less than the ~51.1% of the US population who are women.

OK, well at least we got Biden's race blaming pushed back somewhat. On The View interview, he referenced her "mixed-race" heritage as part of the reason she lost.

You are shitting on people here for bringing it up... but it was Trump (you know, the candidate) who brought it up, in a black journalism convention, among other places. It is terribly disingenuous of you to make claims of race baiting, when Trump was fishing with that bait. I have no doubt Harris's race and gender had an impact, but I'm uncertain what the impact was.

Which is an odd thing to claim, as Obama is mixed race as well and it wasn't an issue for him.

Well, the teabaggers were trying to make it one. It ultimately didn't matter as "Barrack Hussein Obama" would mop the floor with McCain, who had no real shot that year, with the Democrats having so much momentum with the two occupations and the Great Recession at hand. But to consider that race wasn't an issue is just being daft.

But she took those votes for granted, while Trump went in there and campaigned for their votes. And she handily won the popular vote,

Gore hardly won the popular vote, Clinton had a 2 pt plurality advantage. More than Trump's in 2024, both aggregate and percentage.

 

[Swammerdami]

Kamala is such a dope.



Doritos indeed.

MAGAts are so adorable! As wide-eyed and simple-minded as a newborn child.

Every word out of Trump's pie-hole is evidence of mental disease. Would he prefer a shark or electrocution? Let's reopen Alcatraz! What was the Declaration of Independence about anyway? Who knows? Who cares!! The Revolutionary War was fought over the airports. And MAGAts cannot get enough of their "genius"!!

But in an intelligent conversation Kamala makes a tiny joke at her own expense and ... she is the dope!!

Adorable.

 

[thebeave]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black. Silly man:

After Truman's election in 1948, the same Party has retained the White House for more than 2 terms only ONCE (1 time). That was in 1988 when the incumbent Ronald Reagan was extremely popular.

The situation in 2008 was the opposite: The GOP was seeking a third term but George W. Bush had become extremely UNpopular. Almost any Democratic candidate would have won the Presidency that year.

HTH.

Yep, probably true. I personally couldn't stand W. I consider him the worst POTUS of my lifetime (more so then Trump ). But Obama was a good candidate and a breath of fresh air for the country (not to mention he was a clean and articulate African American). But he didn't just squeek out a victory. He killed it on voter turnout (highest in 40 years). It seems a stretch to push the narrative that his race was any sort of significant negative factor in that election, and in fact it likely helped him a lot.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I guess Barack Obama forgot to tell the bigoted voters in the 2008 election that he was black. Silly man:

After Truman's election in 1948, the same Party has retained the White House for more than 2 terms only ONCE (1 time). That was in 1988 when the incumbent Ronald Reagan was extremely popular.

The situation in 2008 was the opposite: The GOP was seeking a third term but George W. Bush had become extremely UNpopular. Almost any Democratic candidate would have won the Presidency that year.

HTH.

Yep, probably true. I personally couldn't stand W. I consider him the worst POTUS of my lifetime (more so then Trump ). But Obama was a good candidate and a breath of fresh air for the country (not to mention he was a clean and articulate African American). But he didn't just squeek out a victory. He killed it on voter turnout (highest in 40 years). It seems a stretch to push the narrative that his race was any sort of significant negative factor in that election, and in fact it likely helped him a lot.

Granted, this was targeting the African American voter to not support her because wasn't black enough.

Saying "But Obama..." doesn't clean the slate. Race was very much made an issue by Trump.


The mongrel immigrants. Again, leaving the liberals bemused as his stupidity, much like when W signaled "Dred Scot", and completely unaware of who he was trying to and successfully target to show up and vote.

 

[thebeave]

It was a dumb and inappropiate thing for him to bring up. I do recall hearing a teaser on TV about it..."Trump says stupid thing. More details at 11". Or maybe that was for something else? Hard to keep track. Anyway, it does seem though, that the press themselves can't decide how to describe her ethnicity, which seems to be the origin of his comment about her race shifting.

AP Headlines Called Harris Indian American in 2016, Black in 2020?