Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

 

[DrZoidberg]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

 

[ZiprHead]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

Please make that make logical sense in some way.

Your opposition to Israel defending itself against it. You keep referring to it as "collective punishment", when it's self defense against violent Muslim terrorists prone to using their own people as human shields. That's very very different.
Tom

Where have I said I oppose Israel defending itself? Collective punishment is not defense.

I don't see collective punishment as a big problem for Gazans. The big problem is violent Muslim terrorists using Gazans as human shields. Which is easy to do because so many Gazans support the violent Muslim terrorists who run Gaza.
Tom

And the ones who don't support Hamas et al? They get punished right along with the terrorists and you don't have a problem with that.

Its war. This is what happens. Every war

Sorry, no. If you refer back to my original "collective punishment" post directed at you, it referred back to when the Gazans were walled off into an open air prison because of the actions of a tiny minority of people. You support that.

So I will ask you again since you support the jailing of neighbors of criminals, would you be okay if your neighbor commits a crime and you were arrested and confined to prison because you're a neighbor?

 

[ZiprHead]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

The tactics are working great if the goal isn't really obtaining the return of the hostages and ridding Gaza of Hamas.

 

[DrZoidberg]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

Please make that make logical sense in some way.

Your opposition to Israel defending itself against it. You keep referring to it as "collective punishment", when it's self defense against violent Muslim terrorists prone to using their own people as human shields. That's very very different.
Tom

Where have I said I oppose Israel defending itself? Collective punishment is not defense.

I don't see collective punishment as a big problem for Gazans. The big problem is violent Muslim terrorists using Gazans as human shields. Which is easy to do because so many Gazans support the violent Muslim terrorists who run Gaza.
Tom

And the ones who don't support Hamas et al? They get punished right along with the terrorists and you don't have a problem with that.

Its war. This is what happens. Every war

Sorry, no. If you refer back to my original "collective punishment" post directed at you, it referred back to when the Gazans were walled off into an open air prison because of the actions of a tiny minority of people. You support that.

So I will ask you again since you support the jailing of neighbors of criminals, would you be okay if your neighbor commits a crime and you were arrested and confined to prison because you're a neighbor?

Yes. If my neighbourhood had self rule. That's how countries and national autonomy works.

Its the system we have. If every country was a liberal democracy we can talk about having other rules. Until then, this is what we need to work with.

The government of Gaza financed suicide bombers. So called "pay for slay" regimes. Incentivising attacks. You could refrain that as a Gazan collective punishment on Israel for having the timidity not to grovel at the feet of Muslims

 

[laughing dog]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

 

[DrZoidberg]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

And they thought WW1 would be over by Christmas. What's your point?

 

[TomC]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

And they thought WW1 would be over by Christmas. What's your point?

Unrealistic expectations are the norm when it comes to war.

 

[DrZoidberg]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

And they thought WW1 would be over by Christmas. What's your point?

Unrealistic expectations are the norm when it comes to war.

Yes, which is a good reply to your original comment. I think this side discussion is settled then

 

[TomC]

Yes, which is a good reply to your original comment. I think this side discussion is settled then

There's another truism that I often find useful as a rule of thumb.
The first casualty of war is The Truth.
Tom

 

[TomC]

The tactics are working great if the goal isn't really obtaining the return of the hostages and ridding Gaza of Hamas.

I strongly suspect that is exactly the case.

The Israelis have given up on getting rid of Hamas. It wouldn't matter anyway since the GWM will just replace them with a similar group. And the surviving kidnap victims are not as important in the long run as all the other Israeli civilians who will be killed by Gazans.

I think Israel's goal now is the most complete destruction of Gazan military strike capabilities as possible. Israel will try to keep casualties down, but they cannot eliminate them in an environment where the GWM want to maximize them for publicity purposes.

Call me a cynical old curmudgeon if you want. It won't make me wrong.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

Anything that helps you cope.

 

[TomC]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

Anything that helps you cope.

I'm looking at the reality. Sorry about you.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

Anything that helps you cope.

I'm looking at the reality. Sorry about you.
Tom

Not with open eyes.

 

[laughing dog]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

No, you support collective punishment. No one here supports violent terrorists of any kind, including Netanyahu, whose violent terrorism you support.

Then why is it so important to you that Israel is prevented from removing them from power?

Israel has tried all sorts of military interventions, going as far as siege tactics. It has been 18 months since the massacre... and Hamas is still there.

We are saying the tactics AREN'T WORKING at releasing hostages and ending Hamas! Because there are still hostage and Hamas is still there.

You keep trying to turn a pragmatic and sober reflection of the conditions in the Israel/Gaza theater as anti-Semitism.

The better question is why are you supporting tactics that don't work at achieving the goals you allegedly support? It is almost like you want Hamas to perpetually remain in power.

Wars take time. I think you have unrealistic expectations for how fast this is

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

And they thought WW1 would be over by Christmas. What's your point?

Unrealistic expectations are the norm when it comes to war.

Yes, which is a good reply to your original comment. I think this side discussion is settled then

Condescending irony - nice combo.

 

[laughing dog]

The tactics are working great if the goal isn't really obtaining the return of the hostages and ridding Gaza of Hamas.

I strongly suspect that is exactly the case.

The Israelis have given up on getting rid of Hamas. It wouldn't matter anyway since the GWM will just replace them with a similar group. And the surviving kidnap victims are not as important in the long run as all the other Israeli civilians who will be killed by Gazans.

I think Israel's goal now is the most complete destruction of Gazan military strike capabilities as possible. Israel will try to keep casualties down, but they cannot eliminate them in an environment where the GWM want to maximize them for publicity purposes.

Call me a cynical old curmudgeon if you want. It won't make me wrong.
Tom

It also doesn’t make you right.

 

[TomC]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

Anything that helps you cope.

I'm looking at the reality. Sorry about you.
Tom

Not with open eyes.

Why do you keep saying dumb things like that?
Israel could definitely have shortened the conflict with more violence.
Of course, the GWM could have prevented the whole debacle, but...
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

Please make that make logical sense in some way.

Your opposition to Israel defending itself against it. You keep referring to it as "collective punishment", when it's self defense against violent Muslim terrorists prone to using their own people as human shields. That's very very different.
Tom

Where have I said I oppose Israel defending itself? Collective punishment is not defense.

I don't see collective punishment as a big problem for Gazans. The big problem is violent Muslim terrorists using Gazans as human shields. Which is easy to do because so many Gazans support the violent Muslim terrorists who run Gaza.
Tom

And the ones who don't support Hamas et al? They get punished right along with the terrorists and you don't have a problem with that.

Its war. This is what happens. Every war

Sorry, no. If you refer back to my original "collective punishment" post directed at you, it referred back to when the Gazans were walled off into an open air prison because of the actions of a tiny minority of people. You support that.

So I will ask you again since you support the jailing of neighbors of criminals, would you be okay if your neighbor commits a crime and you were arrested and confined to prison because you're a neighbor?

Yes. If my neighbourhood had self rule. That's how countries and national autonomy works.

Gaza did not have self rule when the Gaza imprisonment occurred nor did it have it for many years afterwards.

Its the system we have. If every country was a liberal democracy we can talk about having other rules. Until then, this is what we need to work with.

The government of Gaza financed suicide bombers. So called "pay for slay" regimes. Incentivising attacks. You could refrain that as a Gazan collective punishment on Israel for having the timidity not to grovel at the feet of Muslims

See above. There was no Gazan government when they were imprisoned.

 

[TomC]

Originally, the gov't of Israel thought this would be over in less than a year. That was in 2023

Were the Israelis less careful about minimizing civilian casualties it no doubt could have been. Might have been an order of magnitude more deaths, but GWM don't seem to care.
Tom

Anything that helps you cope.

I'm looking at the reality. Sorry about you.
Tom

Not with open eyes.

Why do you keep saying dumb things like that?
Israel could definitely have shortened the conflict with more violence.
Of course, the GWM could have prevented the whole debacle, but...

There was no Gazan government when they were imprisoned.

Gazans were not imprisoned. Sorry to break it to you, but Israel protecting itself is not imprisonment.
Tom