Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TomC]

Okay. How about incarceration? Imprisonment? Confinement? Detention? Retribution?

Why is "self protection" so difficult for you to say, when it's Israeli defense?

Why do it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Muslim terrorists?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Okay. How about incarceration? Imprisonment? Confinement? Detention? Retribution?

Why is "self protection" so difficult for you to say, when it's Israeli defense?

Why do it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Muslim terrorists?
Tom

It is easy to grasp why a bigoted defender of continual slaughtering of civiluan Gazans considers those who decry the level of destruction and misery as apologists for violent Muslim terrorists, even though no one as offered a defense of them. And it easy to grasp why you repeat your ignorant slander.

 

[ZiprHead]

Okay. How about incarceration? Imprisonment? Confinement? Detention? Retribution?

Why is "self protection" so difficult for you to say, when it's Israeli defense?

Why do it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Muslim terrorists?
Tom

Why is it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Jewish Israelis?

I've said from the start, both sides suck but only one side has created an open air prison for an entire minority group on their soil.

 

[TomC]

I've said from the start, both sides suck but only one side has created an open air prison for an entire minority group on their soil.

And the side that created that problem is the Muslim side. The side that kept sending suicide bombers until the victims built a wall to keep them out.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

I've said from the start, both sides suck but only one side has created an open air prison for an entire minority group on their soil.

And the side that created that problem is the Muslim side. The side that kept sending suicide bombers until the victims built a wall to keep them out.
Tom

Yes, collective punishment. You just admitted it.

 

[Arctish]

Murdering barefoot shirtless men who are attempting to surrender is not self defense.

Murdering a women holding the hand of a preschooler who is waving a white flag as they try to leave a dangerous area on foot is not self defense.

Murdering ambulance drivers and paramedics attempting to reach injured civilians is not self defense.

Kidnapping doctors and nurses from clinics and confining them in prisons that even the guards say routinely subject prisoners to torture is not self defense.

Grabbing a wounded man off the street, tying him to the front of your vehicle and driving around worsening his injuries and inflicting new ones, is not self defense.

War crimes are not self defense. But some folks try to use self defense as an excuse for them.

 

[DrZoidberg]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

Please make that make logical sense in some way.

Your opposition to Israel defending itself against it. You keep referring to it as "collective punishment", when it's self defense against violent Muslim terrorists prone to using their own people as human shields. That's very very different.
Tom

Where have I said I oppose Israel defending itself? Collective punishment is not defense.

I don't see collective punishment as a big problem for Gazans. The big problem is violent Muslim terrorists using Gazans as human shields. Which is easy to do because so many Gazans support the violent Muslim terrorists who run Gaza.
Tom

And the ones who don't support Hamas et al? They get punished right along with the terrorists and you don't have a problem with that.

Its war. This is what happens. Every war

Sorry, no. If you refer back to my original "collective punishment" post directed at you, it referred back to when the Gazans were walled off into an open air prison because of the actions of a tiny minority of people. You support that.

So I will ask you again since you support the jailing of neighbors of criminals, would you be okay if your neighbor commits a crime and you were arrested and confined to prison because you're a neighbor?

Yes. If my neighbourhood had self rule. That's how countries and national autonomy works.

Gaza did not have self rule when the Gaza imprisonment occurred nor did it have it for many years afterwards.

I thought what you were talking about was the wall was built. If it's not that, then what are you talking about?

Its the system we have. If every country was a liberal democracy we can talk about having other rules. Until then, this is what we need to work with.

The government of Gaza financed suicide bombers. So called "pay for slay" regimes. Incentivising attacks. You could refrain that as a Gazan collective punishment on Israel for having the timidity not to grovel at the feet of Muslims

See above. There was no Gazan government when they were imprisoned.

 

[DrZoidberg]

What another country does or does not do does not absolve the Israelis of the things they do to the people living in Israel.

The people in Israel are defending themselves against the violent Muslim terrorists, such as the ones who live in Gaza and Iran.
Tom

Again, it does not absolve them of their guilt for using collective punishment.

There's no collective punishment.
There are definitely Gazans suffering from the disaster caused by violent Muslim terrorists, but that is not the same thing by any stretch.
Tom

Subjecting someone to a punishment for an act done by someone else is by definition collective punishment.

Putting up a wall is not punishment. Its protection

Clearly it was necessary to check every Gazan entering Israel for bombs. Israelis do it whenever you enter a mall or any other crowded place. In Israel. Its not paranoia. It's necessary.

Everyone puts up with airline security. Because we are more ok with that than with accepting that planes randomly will go boom now and again.

Israelis are a very pragmatic people.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's a good one




It interesting how there's so many Palestinians expats angry about Israel. While zero expat Iranians.

Even though the Ayatollah right now rules both countries. Both countries heavily incentivise Islamism in the population.

It is interesting

 

[DrZoidberg]

BTW, guys. The Israeli-US aid deliveries are working now. There was some initial issues. But now all non-Hamas fighters in Gaza are being supplied with what they need.

Yet, there's still a lot of people and organisation talking about breaking the blockade. Why? To supply Hamas with food?

Its like no matter what Israel does, the rest of the world hates them

 

[DrZoidberg]

Okay. How about incarceration? Imprisonment? Confinement? Detention? Retribution?

Why is "self protection" so difficult for you to say, when it's Israeli defense?

Why do it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Muslim terrorists?
Tom

It is easy to grasp why a bigoted defender of continual slaughtering of civiluan Gazans considers those who decry the level of destruction and misery as apologists for violent Muslim terrorists, even though no one as offered a defense of them. And it easy to grasp why you repeat your ignorant slander.

Trying to defend yourself isn't slaughter and isn't bigoted. Being bigoted and when you have opinions on others not based in facts. Good luck explaining away the 7/10 attacks, or the fact that Hamas tried making Gaza into one huge military installation.

Yes, why haven't you come up with a defence for Hamas? Quit this roundabout way of doing it. If you support Hamas, then just fucking say it. Instead of this nonsense.

You're desperately trying to frame Israels defensive war as some sort of genocide on civilians. It's pretty pathetic. Just stop.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Here's a good one




It interesting how there's so many Palestinians expats angry about Israel. While zero expat Iranians.

Even though the Ayatollah right now rules both countries. Both countries heavily incentivise Islamism in the population.

It is interesting

I'm not sure how many could support Iran. They are a brutal regime. They arm Russia. They have been at war against Israel for many years; and then they are in shock when Israel hits them back.

 

[pood]

Really? So Gazans can just walk through unimpeded by the IDF? No.

Sure.
What is stopping Gazans from crossing the border with Egypt?
Egypt and Hamas and Iran, that's who. Not IDF.
Tom

Being a little tricky there with the context, I see.

I'll respond again when you decide to be honest and serious. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.

In other words,
Gazans could leave if the Muslims would let them do it.
Muslims will not. Therefore Israeli defense is evil.
That's kinda tricky on your part, but I have been watching the pro-Hamas ideologists for a while. This is not new.
Tom

Why should Gazans want to leave their homeland that Israel began stealing from the Palestinians as a whole in 1948? Of course they may be FORCED to leave it by Israel’s ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

[pood]

Really? So Gazans can just walk through unimpeded by the IDF? No.

Sure.
What is stopping Gazans from crossing the border with Egypt?
Egypt and Hamas and Iran, that's who. Not IDF.
Tom

Being a little tricky there with the context, I see.

I'll respond again when you decide to be honest and serious. Otherwise it's just a waste of time.

In other words,
Gazans could leave if the Muslims would let them do it.
Muslims will not. Therefore Israeli defense is evil.
That's kinda tricky on your part, but I have been watching the pro-Hamas ideologists for a while. This is not new.
Tom

Calling anyone here a “pro-Hama apologist” is of course a baseless and contemptible slur.

 

[scombrid]

Tom writes:

Sure.
What is stopping Gazans from crossing the border with Egypt?
Egypt and Hamas and Iran, that's who. Not IDF.
Tom

Hmm. Leave or die. What word should I used for such an ultimatum?

 

[laughing dog]

Okay. How about incarceration? Imprisonment? Confinement? Detention? Retribution?

Why is "self protection" so difficult for you to say, when it's Israeli defense?

Why do it impossible for you to grasp why I consider you, and the many people like you, apologists for violent Muslim terrorists?
Tom

It is easy to grasp why a bigoted defender of continual slaughtering of civiluan Gazans considers those who decry the level of destruction and misery as apologists for violent Muslim terrorists, even though no one as offered a defense of them. And it easy to grasp why you repeat your ignorant slander.

Trying to defend yourself isn't slaughter and isn't bigoted. Being bigoted and when you have opinions on others not based in facts. Good luck explaining away the 7/10 attacks, or the fact that Hamas tried making Gaza into one huge military installation.

Yes, why haven't you come up with a defence for Hamas? Quit this roundabout way of doing it. If you support Hamas, then just fucking say it. Instead of this nonsense.

You're desperately trying to frame Israels defensive war as some sort of genocide on civilians. It's pretty pathetic. Just stop.

No I’m not. And there is no defence for terrorism of any kind from anyone for any reason.

The inability to distinguish between calls for moderation in Israel’s prosecution of its war on Hamas and apologia for Hamas or antisemitism is what is truly pathetic. I’d ask that it stop, but to paraphrase King Crimson
“I talk to the wind. My words are all carried away, The wind does not hear, the wind cannot hear”.

 

[laughing dog]

Tom writes:

Sure.
What is stopping Gazans from crossing the border with Egypt?
Egypt and Hamas and Iran, that's who. Not IDF.
Tom

Hmm. Leave or die. What word should I used for such an ultimatum?

Ethnic cleansing?

 

[barbos]

Here's a good one




It interesting how there's so many Palestinians expats angry about Israel. While zero expat Iranians.

Even though the Ayatollah right now rules both countries. Both countries heavily incentivise Islamism in the population.

It is interesting

I'm not sure how many could support Iran. They are a brutal regime. They arm Russia. They have been at war against Israel for many years; and then they are in shock when Israel hits them back.

You are worse than Iran then, cause you arm nazis and ISIS.
And Iran does not arm Russia. Russia buys some ammo from North Korea though.

 

[ZiprHead]

From your response it appears that you support collective punishment.

From your response it appears that you support violent Muslim terrorists.
Tom

Please make that make logical sense in some way.

Your opposition to Israel defending itself against it. You keep referring to it as "collective punishment", when it's self defense against violent Muslim terrorists prone to using their own people as human shields. That's very very different.
Tom

Where have I said I oppose Israel defending itself? Collective punishment is not defense.

I don't see collective punishment as a big problem for Gazans. The big problem is violent Muslim terrorists using Gazans as human shields. Which is easy to do because so many Gazans support the violent Muslim terrorists who run Gaza.
Tom

And the ones who don't support Hamas et al? They get punished right along with the terrorists and you don't have a problem with that.

Its war. This is what happens. Every war

Sorry, no. If you refer back to my original "collective punishment" post directed at you, it referred back to when the Gazans were walled off into an open air prison because of the actions of a tiny minority of people. You support that.

So I will ask you again since you support the jailing of neighbors of criminals, would you be okay if your neighbor commits a crime and you were arrested and confined to prison because you're a neighbor?

Yes. If my neighbourhood had self rule. That's how countries and national autonomy works.

Gaza did not have self rule when the Gaza imprisonment occurred nor did it have it for many years afterwards.

I thought what you were talking about was the wall was built. If it's not that, then what are you talking about?

Its the system we have. If every country was a liberal democracy we can talk about having other rules. Until then, this is what we need to work with.

The government of Gaza financed suicide bombers. So called "pay for slay" regimes. Incentivising attacks. You could refrain that as a Gazan collective punishment on Israel for having the timidity not to grovel at the feet of Muslims

See above. There was no Gazan government when they were imprisoned.

I didn't bring the wall into it at all. I believe that was Tom.

 

[TomC]

Tom writes:

Sure.
What is stopping Gazans from crossing the border with Egypt?
Egypt and Hamas and Iran, that's who. Not IDF.
Tom

Hmm. Leave or die. What word should I used for such an ultimatum?

Ethnic cleansing?

Gazans have at least a couple of choices.
Move a few miles south to Egypt (at least temporarily). Or remain human shields for the GWM.

That's the "leave or die" options you are referring to, only put into the context with a dose of reality.
Tom