Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Tammuz]

At which point does it become a grand conspiracy theory to assert that what all the media and the NGOs report from Gaza is not true, but a hoax perpetrated by Hamas?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All I noted was you conceded there is suffering in Gaza. That'd be reflecting on your statement.

What statement?
If anyone is unsure about or unaware of the suffering in Gaza, I can't imagine who.

The big disagreement is about why it's happening

Everyone knows why it is happening. It is Israel's response to the October 7th slaughter of Israeli civilians.

Simplistic answer. You're picking one level and pretending no others exist.

what to do about it. How to improve the future.

That is where the disagreement is.

Your answer is to let Hamas continue to torture the hostages and free to take more.

As long as so many people keep blaming Israel for defending themselves and handwaving the brutality of the violent Muslim supremacists things are not going to improve.

This stopped being about defending Israel for a while.

• Defending Israel
  • Coordinated attack on Hezbollah
  • Direct attacks on Hamas and tunnels
  • Whacking any Hamas leaders
  • Strategic attacks on Iranian nuclear weapons program
• Not defending Israel
  • Trying to displace the Gazans into Egypt
  • Siege Tactics

Siege is a normal tactic of war, typically done when an opponent either can not defeat a dug-in force, or chooses not to because of how many will die in the process.

I disagree with attempting to displace them into Egypt--but note that it isn't happening. And note what's happening: Israel wants to move them around so they can filter out the combatants mixed in with the civilians. Given Hamas perfidy that is a valid military approach.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Even if the UN stocks are physically inside Gaza, they arrived there only because Israel opened the crossings, vetted the convoys, and granted security clearances. When aid sits idle behind closed gates—or under military “coordination”—the state with control over borders and checkpoints bears responsibility for any holdup, not the NGOs grumbling about pay rates.

And once again we are back to throwing out irrelevancies. And repeating things I have already repeatedly shown false.

Control of Gaza’s humanitarian lifeline isn’t an “irrelevancy” — it’s the very mechanism of the siege. Every UN convoy still operates under Israeli‐issued permits, convoy schedules, and military escorts. You haven’t presented a single UN operations bulletin, convoy manifest, or ICRC statement saying those gates now open without Israeli approval. Simply insisting “they’re already inside” doesn’t negate the documented, day-to-day coordination requirements that Israel imposes. If you truly have evidence that aid trucks now move free of IDF checkpoints, show the crossing logs or the UN’s own clearance memos. Until then, denying Israel’s border control isn’t debunking the fact — it’s willful evasion of the single most critical fact in this crisis.

NHC

It most certainly is relevant as control of the aid is control of Gaza. That's why Hamas has been going on a killing spree of those picking up the aid.

And none of your requested information is remotely relevant as no attempt has been made to move it. It simply sits there so the people will starve.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Repeated accusations of genocide don't magically make it appear.

And I wouldn't really call it media bias. Antisemitic attacks are routine, not newsworthy. This is only notable from the fact that the cops forced everyone to prove they didn't have a recording of it. I brought it up because of the use of "Israeli" as equivalent to "Jewish". The vast majority of criticisms directed at "Israel" are really antisemitism.

Especially the ones coming from Israelis.

FFS Loren, almost all the posters at this board aren't anti-Semites. We actually have at least one, a couple others were banned. It is so grating to hear you repeat this false charge over and over. Questioning the policy and military decisions of Netanyahu are not "anti-Semitism". The use of the word genocide and anti-Semitism in this thread is embarrassing.

I am not addressing any particular usage, just the general pattern. Most of the time it's impossible to tell about any given case.

The thing is you question the decisions of the Israeli government and utterly ignore the other side of the equation--the decisions of Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All I noted was you conceded there is suffering in Gaza. That'd be reflecting on your statement.

What statement?
If anyone is unsure about or unaware of the suffering in Gaza, I can't imagine who.

The big disagreement is about why it's happening and what to do about it. How to improve the future.

As long as so many people keep blaming Israel for defending themselves and handwaving the brutality of the violent Muslim supremacists things are not going to improve.
Tom

And so long as people keep blaming Nazi Germany for defending themselves and handwaving the perfidy of the sinister Jews things are not going to improve.

The Allies were not seeking to exterminate the Germans. Hamas is.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your support for Hamas is despicable.

Good luck trying to twist reality into it being something else. I hope you one day find a way to live with your shame

Your false accusations that anyone here supports Hamas are despicable. You are despicable.

Let's clarify something: we are using different meanings of the word "support".

Does anyone on here think Hamas are the good guys? No.

Does anyone on here intend to aid Hamas? No.

But we are looking deeper.

Are people on here supporting positions that Hamas wants supported? Yes.

Hamas doesn't care if you hate them, Hamas cares if you do what they want you to do.

And look at how they have diverted attention from the hostages. All day every day it's about parading supposed suffering before the camera. The hostages get widely ignored.

As a reminder, they are still hostages despite Netanyahu's efforts at punishing Gaza en masse. These actions you have supported have failed to see to the release of the hostages.

Israel has recovered most of them. You haven't even suggested anything other than appeasement.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As a reminder, they are still hostages despite Netanyahu's efforts at punishing Gaza en masse. These actions you have supported have failed to see to the release of the hostages.

Israel has recovered most of them.

...before the siege tactics.

Repeated accusations of genocide don't magically make it appear.

And I wouldn't really call it media bias. Antisemitic attacks are routine, not newsworthy. This is only notable from the fact that the cops forced everyone to prove they didn't have a recording of it. I brought it up because of the use of "Israeli" as equivalent to "Jewish". The vast majority of criticisms directed at "Israel" are really antisemitism.

Especially the ones coming from Israelis.

FFS Loren, almost all the posters at this board aren't anti-Semites. We actually have at least one, a couple others were banned. It is so grating to hear you repeat this false charge over and over. Questioning the policy and military decisions of Netanyahu are not "anti-Semitism". The use of the word genocide and anti-Semitism in this thread is embarrassing.

I am not addressing any particular usage, just the general pattern. Most of the time it's impossible to tell about any given case.

The thing is you question the decisions of the Israeli government and utterly ignore the other side of the equation--the decisions of Hamas.

I'm questioning military policies that aren't working and appear to be COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO THE LONG-TERM SAFETY OF ISRAEL.

I did the same thing between 2002 and 2006. Was I anti-American then?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

All I noted was you conceded there is suffering in Gaza. That'd be reflecting on your statement.

What statement?
If anyone is unsure about or unaware of the suffering in Gaza, I can't imagine who.

The big disagreement is about why it's happening

Everyone knows why it is happening. It is Israel's response to the October 7th slaughter of Israeli civilians.

Simplistic answer. You're picking one level and pretending no others exist.

what to do about it. How to improve the future.

That is where the disagreement is.

Your answer is to let Hamas continue to torture the hostages and free to take more.

*drops an anvil on Loren Pechtel*

For a smart person, you seem utterly incapable of commenting on a person's position that isn't exactly stated in the immediate post.

 

[NoHolyCows]

At which point does it become a grand conspiracy theory to assert that what all the media and the NGOs report from Gaza is not true, but a hoax perpetrated by Ham

Even if the UN stocks are physically inside Gaza, they arrived there only because Israel opened the crossings, vetted the convoys, and granted security clearances. When aid sits idle behind closed gates—or under military “coordination”—the state with control over borders and checkpoints bears responsibility for any holdup, not the NGOs grumbling about pay rates.

And once again we are back to throwing out irrelevancies. And repeating things I have already repeatedly shown false.

Control of Gaza’s humanitarian lifeline isn’t an “irrelevancy” — it’s the very mechanism of the siege. Every UN convoy still operates under Israeli‐issued permits, convoy schedules, and military escorts. You haven’t presented a single UN operations bulletin, convoy manifest, or ICRC statement saying those gates now open without Israeli approval. Simply insisting “they’re already inside” doesn’t negate the documented, day-to-day coordination requirements that Israel imposes. If you truly have evidence that aid trucks now move free of IDF checkpoints, show the crossing logs or the UN’s own clearance memos. Until then, denying Israel’s border control isn’t debunking the fact — it’s willful evasion of the single most critical fact in this crisis.

NHC

It most certainly is relevant as control of the aid is control of Gaza. That's why Hamas has been going on a killing spree of those picking up the aid.

And none of your requested information is remotely relevant as no attempt has been made to move it. It simply sits there so the people will starve.

You’re right that Hamas’s terror is abhorrent—but it doesn’t absolve the power that sealed the supply lines in the first place. When every convoy must wait for Israeli permits, routes and escorts, civilians have no choice but to crowd those distribution points. Blaming Hamas’s attacks on desperate families without first demanding those crossings open is moral evasion. If securing aid truly mattered, you’d call for the gates to be swung wide and only then demand safe-passage guarantees—not congratulate a siege because it lets you shift the blame.

Dismissing every clearance log, convoy manifest and UN coordination memo as “irrelevant” won’t change the fact that Israel controls the border regime. The trucks don’t drive themselves; they require Israeli security approvals at every step. The reason aid “sits there” is because those approvals have been withheld. International humanitarian law doesn’t permit starving a population by indifference—its remedy is precisely to force open those routes. Claiming “no one tried” is a convenient fiction that lets the blockade remain unchallenged. If you believe innocents should live, demand the paperwork and permits appear now—because every day they don’t, children die by policy.

NHC

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And at that point you switch from your brain to your faith and "conclude" (no thinking involved) that it's because of Israel.

Man, you are starting to sound like barbos. I've already stated there is no place on Earth for Hamas after 10/7 (or 7/10 to appease bilby). But you need to keep making any criticism of the response 18 months after the attack about anti-Semitism. I want the hostages freed, Hamas gone, Hamas' leadership axed by Mossad. But you need to falsely label me as an anti-Semite because... I have no fucking clue why you need to say I'm anti-Semitic. That I don't defend military tactics that are punishing many people... and not achieving the goal of hostage release seems a pretty damn weak reason to call someone an anti-Semite.

Yeah, you want Hamas gone--by magic wand. While asking to give Hamas exactly what they're actually after.

And I'm not saying you are anti-semitic--I think it's that you have fallen for the Hamas brainwashing.

And you're not addressing my point here: the assumption that if something bad happened it must have been due to Israel.

We keep pointing out how Hamas is framing Israel. It's not a great hidden secret, it just requires paying a little bit of attention rather than baaing.

 

[ZiprHead]

To those of you who need a simple explanation for what's going on. Here's a lady explaining it in real simple terms



What she's not saying but is added context is that UNRWA is probably infiltrated by Hamas, which is why, they will only distribute aid in such a way that Hamas gets it and can use it to buy loyalty from Gazans. Or they're not infiltrated by Hamas and they're acting like evil villains for some other reason. Either way.. its fucking insane that the the UN is just sitting on tonnes of aid when people are starving. Its inexcusable to be this calous for political gain

So we should believe some unknown person on Instagram over humanitarian organizations that are actually there?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And at that point you switch from your brain to your faith and "conclude" (no thinking involved) that it's because of Israel.

Man, you are starting to sound like barbos. I've already stated there is no place on Earth for Hamas after 10/7 (or 7/10 to appease bilby). But you need to keep making any criticism of the response 18 months after the attack about anti-Semitism. I want the hostages freed, Hamas gone, Hamas' leadership axed by Mossad. But you need to falsely label me as an anti-Semite because... I have no fucking clue why you need to say I'm anti-Semitic. That I don't defend military tactics that are punishing many people... and not achieving the goal of hostage release seems a pretty damn weak reason to call someone an anti-Semite.

Yeah, you want Hamas gone--by magic wand. While asking to give Hamas exactly what they're actually after.

No, by foreign policy with Iran and Mossad, as I've stated before.

And I'm not saying you are anti-semitic--I think it's that you have fallen for the Hamas brainwashing.

Bullshit! You throw that word around so easily, and don't have the balls to hold to your baseless and inflammatory assertion. People who aren't anti-Semites aren't generally anti-Semitic and driven by anti-Semitism.

And you're not addressing my point here: the assumption that if something bad happened it must have been due to Israel.

I haven't said that. You are starting to just lump all posters into one massive amalgam.

 

[ZiprHead]

Considering the general level of retardation in the posts of this thread, I think I'm one of the few who actually know what they're talking about. It's entertaining to see that the most clueless posters seem to be among the most confident. A finer example of the Dunning-Kruger paradox in action is hard to find.

I don't think it's Dunning-Kruger, but a demonstration of how easy it is to brainwash people.

I agree. You and Dr Z are huge examples of it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To those of you who need a simple explanation for what's going on. Here's a lady explaining it in real simple terms



What she's not saying but is added context is that UNRWA is probably infiltrated by Hamas, which is why, they will only distribute aid in such a way that Hamas gets it and can use it to buy loyalty from Gazans. Or they're not infiltrated by Hamas and they're acting like evil villains for some other reason. Either way.. its fucking insane that the the UN is just sitting on tonnes of aid when people are starving. Its inexcusable to be this calous for political gain

So we should believe some unknown person on Instagram over humanitarian organizations that are actually there?

Scraping the bottom of the barrel there.

UN has issues, Hamas is nothing but an issue, Netanyahu's policies are an issue. There really isn't anyone in this with clean hands, just some with less dirt on them than others. Hamas and the gangs in Gaza are causing massive problems with aid distribution. It has become lawless in Gaza. Add in people who are desperate for aid, and it is a recipe for disaster... which makes this siege all the more harder to get anything done anymore.

 

[ZiprHead]

To minimize something it must exist. We don't see persecution, we see Hamas causing the suffering so you'll baa.

Yeah, Hamas did this.:

View attachment 51594

I see no persecution in those photos. Look at what they are actually showing--two tunnels got bombed. Just because you can't see the tunnels doesn't mean they aren't there.

And you baa.

WTAF??? Those used to be people's homes and there are probably hundreds buried in that rubble.

And how do YOU know there were tunnels there if they cannot be seen?

 

[ZiprHead]

There really isn't anyone in this with clean hands

I've said from the start there are no good guys in this fight.

 

[laughing dog]

No, I don’t. Its horrible. The suffering of Gazans is a tragedy.

But easing up on the pressure will give room to Hamas to survive. Better to get rid of them once and for all.

Allowing Hamas to survive is the worse tragedy. This is better. For both the Palestinians and Israelis. Long term.

So, you are for ethnic cleansing.

Hamas is not an ethnicity.

Quit playing stupid.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous.

 Ethnic_cleansing

Hamas is not ethnically, racially or religiously distinct from the population of Gaza.

The distinction between Hamas and Gazan is the former is a combatant.

Thank you Dr. Obvious. Do you have a point? Because the far right in Netanhyu's coalition is calling for the removal of Gazans. And the IDF is killling noncombatants on a daily basis. And until a short while ago. Israel blockaded food and medical supplies into Gaza in a vain attempt to get Hamas to agree to their ceasefire demands. All in all,. it looks more and more like ethnic cleansing.

Your hair-splitting semantic apologia only proves my point.

 

[Derec]

WTAF??? Those used to be people's homes and there are probably hundreds buried in that rubble.

Blame Hamas for using civilian areas.

And how do YOU know there were tunnels there if they cannot be seen?

You offered this before-and-after photo as some kind of evidence. How do YOU know that there was no legitimate military target there?
We do know that there is a tunnel network in Beit Hanoun.

Known tunnels would be among the first targets, so it makes sense that they would be bombed as early as October 2023.

 

[Derec]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

 

[Derec]

I think Hamas carries a lot of blame for being intransigent. I think Hamas still thinks they have enough leverage to effect the release of thousands of prisoners, including such bad seeds as Abdullah Barghouti.
Hardened terrorists that Hamas demands in exchange of hostages

I don't think Hamas is really being given a choice here.

The problem is that useful idiots like Starmer and Carney are pressuring Israel into acquiescing to Hamas demands in order to effect a ceasefire by September.
Starmer says UK will recognize Palestinian state unless Israel agrees ceasefire, ends Gaza suffering

Israel already freed a couple of thousand prisoners in the previous ceasefire, including 100s of lifers. Now Hamas is demanding the remaining terrorists serving life sentences, including high-profile terrorists like Abdullah Barghouti be freed for a ceasefire and release of the remaining few hostages.
Hamas Surprises Negotiators With Demand for 30 Palestinian Life Prisoners per Living Israeli Hostage, Diplomat Says

As of March, 288 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences were being held in Israeli prisons. Hamas' latest demand would require the release of all of them, including prisoners Israel has previously insisted on keeping incarcerated.

I do not think Israel should have agreed to releasing life-sentence prisoners in January either. It just sets expectations very high for the next time.