Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[TomC]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

Nor does it mean that the Allies who bombed the crap out Germany were to blame for it.
The Germans who suffered were the victims of the Nazis, in other words their own leadership.
The Nazis attacked. They got their asses kicked by the people that they attacked. Millions of other Germans suffered. It's similar to the situation in Gaza. Violent Muslim supremacists launched a war against Israel and now the little people are suffering horribly.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Israel already freed a couple of thousand prisoners in the previous ceasefire, including 100s of lifers. Now Hamas is demanding the remaining terrorists serving life sentences, including high-profile terrorists like Abdullah Barghouti be freed for a ceasefire and release of the remaining few hostages.

Personally, I think that the Israelis should be releasing the folks on Hamas' list.
By pushing them out of helicopters, skimming just above rifle range, over Gaza.
Tom

 

[Derec]

Relying on curated snapshots misses the point that Gaza’s crisis isn’t built on a few images but on territory-wide, systematically gathered data. UN agencies have declared Gaza a humanitarian catastrophe, with tens of thousands malnourished and hunger-related deaths soaring.

As I said, it is Hamas propaganda that is relying on "curated snapshots" that they feed to western news outlets like NY Times.
By the way, their offices were vandalized because they dared issue a correction that questioned this Hamas propaganda.
Vandals spray paint NYT building, write 'NYT Lies, Gaza dies'

Visuals can highlight individual suffering, but clinical reality depends on systematic measurements—anthropometry, blood tests, hospital admissions—all of which consistently show severe acute malnutrition across Gaza, not just isolated snapshots.

I agree that there is some malnutrition in Gaza.
It is difficult to organize efficient delivery of food and other aid in the middle of a warzone. In most conflicts, civilians flee the active fighting areas to refugee camps. But in the case of Gaza, Egypt would not allow refugees to cross the border and be temporarily housed in the Sinai. That would have made things much easier, even if the Sinai refugee camp included, say, only minors under 14 years of age and one adult female per family as a caretaker. That would have removed hundreds of thousands out of the warzone, ensuring their safety, and it would be easier to supply those who remained in Gaza as well.
Gaza is small enough that no place is far from fighting. Even so, here was an attempt by Israel to have a humanitarian zone for civilians at Al Mawasi, but Hamas quickly started operating from there.

This is footage of one of Hamas top commanders, Mohammed Deif, being targeted in Al Mawasi in July 2024. Note the secondary explosion indicative of weapons/explosives being stored on site.
So, yet again, Hamas should be blamed for putting civilians in harm's way.

All that said, there is less malnutrition in Gaza than in many other conflicts that receive a small fraction of the attention - no Jews, no news.
 Famine in Sudan (2024–present)

Nutrition surveillance in Gaza is multi-actor: the local Health Ministry shares raw data that WHO and UNICEF validate; UNRWA’s surveys follow WHO protocols and are audited independently to ensure accuracy and impartiality.

Again, UN is a quite biased against Israel. I would not trust their data without independent corroboration.

Under international maritime law, every shipmaster must assist persons in distress and deliver them to a place of safety. That duty is legally binding and wholly distinct from smuggling.

It is smuggling when the whole thing is planned. The smugglers in Libya or Tunisia load illegal migrants onto dinghies, give them a satellite phone and tell them to call for "rescue" as soon as they are out of reach of the local coast guard. The "rescue" ships operated by MSF ans simimar pro-illegal-migration groups wait for those calls, pick up the migrants and sail them all the way to Europe.
This is not maritime rescue, it is carefully orchestrated smuggling. All this is quite off-topic here, so I won't belabor it more, except to say that I lost all respect for MSF because of their complicity with migrant smuggling.

 

[Derec]

The 1983-1985 famine in Ethiopia was awful, but only killed between 0.75% to 3% of the population. Some in here are apparently not happy that people aren't hungry enough.

Official numbers (by the Hamas health ministry) are still <200 dead from malnutrition. That is <0.01% of the population.

 

[NoHolyCows]

Relying on curated snapshots misses the point that Gaza’s crisis isn’t built on a few images but on territory-wide, systematically gathered data. UN agencies have declared Gaza a humanitarian catastrophe, with tens of thousands malnourished and hunger-related deaths soaring.

As I said, it is Hamas propaganda that is relying on "curated snapshots" that they feed to western news outlets like NY Times.
By the way, their offices were vandalized because they dared issue a correction that questioned this Hamas propaganda.
Vandals spray paint NYT building, write 'NYT Lies, Gaza dies'

Visuals can highlight individual suffering, but clinical reality depends on systematic measurements—anthropometry, blood tests, hospital admissions—all of which consistently show severe acute malnutrition across Gaza, not just isolated snapshots.

I agree that there is some malnutrition in Gaza.
It is difficult to organize efficient delivery of food and other aid in the middle of a warzone. In most conflicts, civilians flee the active fighting areas to refugee camps. But in the case of Gaza, Egypt would not allow refugees to cross the border and be temporarily housed in the Sinai. That would have made things much easier, even if the Sinai refugee camp included, say, only minors under 14 years of age and one adult female per family as a caretaker. That would have removed hundreds of thousands out of the warzone, ensuring their safety, and it would be easier to supply those who remained in Gaza as well.
Gaza is small enough that no place is far from fighting. Even so, here was an attempt by Israel to have a humanitarian zone for civilians at Al Mawasi, but Hamas quickly started operating from there.

This is footage of one of Hamas top commanders, Mohammed Deif, being targeted in Al Mawasi in July 2024. Note the secondary explosion indicative of weapons/explosives being stored on site.
So, yet again, Hamas should be blamed for putting civilians in harm's way.

All that said, there is less malnutrition in Gaza than in many other conflicts that receive a small fraction of the attention - no Jews, no news.
 Famine in Sudan (2024–present)

Nutrition surveillance in Gaza is multi-actor: the local Health Ministry shares raw data that WHO and UNICEF validate; UNRWA’s surveys follow WHO protocols and are audited independently to ensure accuracy and impartiality.

Again, UN is a quite biased against Israel. I would not trust their data without independent corroboration.

Under international maritime law, every shipmaster must assist persons in distress and deliver them to a place of safety. That duty is legally binding and wholly distinct from smuggling.

It is smuggling when the whole thing is planned. The smugglers in Libya or Tunisia load illegal migrants onto dinghies, give them a satellite phone and tell them to call for "rescue" as soon as they are out of reach of the local coast guard. The "rescue" ships operated by MSF ans simimar pro-illegal-migration groups wait for those calls, pick up the migrants and sail them all the way to Europe.
This is not maritime rescue, it is carefully orchestrated smuggling. All this is quite off-topic here, so I won't belabor it more, except to say that I lost all respect for MSF because of their complicity with migrant smuggling.

Labeling any correction as “propaganda” and responding with vandalism against a free press illustrates the very campaign to intimidate outlets into silence. Vandals spray-painted the New York Times building with “NYT Lies, Gaza Dies” immediately after the paper amended its story on Gaza starvation—an attack on journalistic integrity, not a vindication of your claim

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-862776.

Egypt’s refusal to open Rafah to refugees is a sovereign policy choice—rooted in political and security concerns—not a justification for allowing Gaza’s population to remain under siege.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention.

And under the Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 59 and Additional Protocol I Article 70, an Occupying Power must “agree to relief schemes” and “guarantee their protection,” even if third parties impede safe passage; setting up “humanitarian zones” carries no carve-out for failures of armed groups.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-70.

Storing munitions in civilian areas flagrantly violates the obligation under Additional Protocol I Article 58 to take “all feasible precautions” to remove military objectives from populated zones and protect non-combatants.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-58.

That breach by Hamas compounds, rather than erases, Israel’s duty as occupier to safeguard civilians and ensure humanitarian relief.

Absolute figures from massive crises like Sudan’s don’t mitigate Gaza’s plight. The IPC warns famine is “playing out” in the Gaza Strip, with regions already exceeding famine thresholds.

IPC ALERT: Worst-case scenario of Famine unfolding in the Gaza Strip

The worst-case scenario of Famine is currently playing out in the Gaza Strip. Conflict and displacement have intensified, and access to food and other essential items and services has plummeted to unprecedented levels.

www.ipcinfo.org

By contrast, Sudan’s famine affects 25.6 million people—with 756,000 in catastrophic hunger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024–present) —but Gaza’s per-capita rates under siege and blockade rival the world’s worst, and occupation law imposes unique responsibilities on Israel.

UNRWA’s malnutrition surveys adhere to WHO and UNICEF protocols, are audited by both, and show one in ten children under five screened in 2025 clinics is malnourished, with severe cases rising month after month.

https://www.unrwa.org/resources/reports/unrwa-situation-report-181-situation-gaza-strip-and-west-bank-including-east-jerusalem.

Dismissing this without pointing to specific errors undermines transparent humanitarian oversight.

Under UNCLOS Article 98 and the SOLAS and SAR Conventions, every shipmaster must render assistance to persons in distress at sea, regardless of how they arrived there. MSF’s search-and-rescue operations save lives as a legal duty—mischaracterizing them as smuggling endangers mariners and those in peril.

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

NHC

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

Nor does it mean that the Allies who bombed the crap out Germany were to blame for it.

It was a war crime. We formed the UN to make certain WWII didn't ever happen again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

FFS. Nazi Germany at one point occupied a good deal of Europe. Gaza occupies only Gaza. Let's stop with the metaphors and stick with what is actually happening now.

I was just glad to see people accepting that there is suffering in Gaza.

 

[TomC]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

Nor does it mean that the Allies who bombed the crap out Germany were to blame for it.

It was a war crime.

What was a war crime?
Bombing London or getting bombed by the Allies?
You do realize that Muslim supremacists, like the Nazis, started the war that resulted in massive suffering of civilians. Don't you?

Frankly, as an American,
I kinda see this episode in terms of American history.
Muslims dominate the region, like WASP's did here. Zionists are a small minority, like black people were here. Hamas resembles the KKK, the violent supporters of the supremacists. A white racist didn't have to be a member to be a supporter. And I see the Oct 7, 2023 attack as like the Tulsa Massacre. It didn't get rid of those darned people, but it was a valiant effort to show them who's boss (and has God on their side).
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

So there is suffering in Gaza.

There was suffering in Germany in 1945 too. Doesn't make it "genocide".

Nor does it mean that the Allies who bombed the crap out Germany were to blame for it.

It was a war crime.

What was a war crime?
Bombing London or getting bombed by the Allies?
You do realize that Muslim supremacists, like the Nazis, started the war that resulted in massive suffering of civilians. Don't you?

Irrelevant in the determination of a war crime.

You seem to think that it is acceptable to do anything to the “bad guys”. That is not how law is supposed to work.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And at that point you switch from your brain to your faith and "conclude" (no thinking involved) that it's because of Israel.

Man, you are starting to sound like barbos. I've already stated there is no place on Earth for Hamas after 10/7 (or 7/10 to appease bilby). But you need to keep making any criticism of the response 18 months after the attack about anti-Semitism. I want the hostages freed, Hamas gone, Hamas' leadership axed by Mossad. But you need to falsely label me as an anti-Semite because... I have no fucking clue why you need to say I'm anti-Semitic. That I don't defend military tactics that are punishing many people... and not achieving the goal of hostage release seems a pretty damn weak reason to call someone an anti-Semite.

Yeah, you want Hamas gone--by magic wand. While asking to give Hamas exactly what they're actually after.

No, by foreign policy with Iran and Mossad, as I've stated before.

By magic wand.

And you're not addressing my point here: the assumption that if something bad happened it must have been due to Israel.

I haven't said that. You are starting to just lump all posters into one massive amalgam.

Just look at all the cases that keep being presented. Dead body, must have been Israel despite absolutely zero evidence of the identity of the shooter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To minimize something it must exist. We don't see persecution, we see Hamas causing the suffering so you'll baa.

Yeah, Hamas did this.:

View attachment 51594

I see no persecution in those photos. Look at what they are actually showing--two tunnels got bombed. Just because you can't see the tunnels doesn't mean they aren't there.

And you baa.

WTAF??? Those used to be people's homes and there are probably hundreds buried in that rubble.

I see you have been listening to NHC. During that phase of the war the average death toll by Hamas numbers was less than one per bomb. Those buildings were evacuated.

And how do YOU know there were tunnels there if they cannot be seen?

Look. Two lines of damage. Israel collapsed hundreds of miles of tunnels. Why in the world should we not think we are seeing buildings that collapsed when the tunnel collapse took out their foundation? Normal concrete is extremely vulnerable to that failure mode.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The 1983-1985 famine in Ethiopia was awful, but only killed between 0.75% to 3% of the population. Some in here are apparently not happy that people aren't hungry enough.

Official numbers (by the Hamas health ministry) are still <200 dead from malnutrition. That is <0.01% of the population.

As of not very long ago the official number was 66.

 

[DrZoidberg]

No, I don’t. Its horrible. The suffering of Gazans is a tragedy.

But easing up on the pressure will give room to Hamas to survive. Better to get rid of them once and for all.

Allowing Hamas to survive is the worse tragedy. This is better. For both the Palestinians and Israelis. Long term.

So, you are for ethnic cleansing.

Hamas is not an ethnicity.

Quit playing stupid.

Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous.

 Ethnic_cleansing

Hamas is not ethnically, racially or religiously distinct from the population of Gaza.

The distinction between Hamas and Gazan is the former is a combatant.

Thank you Dr. Obvious. Do you have a point? Because the far right in Netanhyu's coalition is calling for the removal of Gazans. And the IDF is killling noncombatants on a daily basis. And until a short while ago. Israel blockaded food and medical supplies into Gaza in a vain attempt to get Hamas to agree to their ceasefire demands. All in all,. it looks more and more like ethnic cleansing.

Your hair-splitting semantic apologia only proves my point.

If it looks like ethnic cleansing to you then my conclusion is that you are antisemitic.

Of course IDF is going to accidentally shoot non-combatants. Anybody dressed as a civilian might be a Hamas fighter. They mix with the crowd to surprise IDF fighters. The result is very predictable.

I aplaud Israel for not allowing themselves to be manipulated by Hamas.

I condemn Hamas for every Palestinian civilian casualty. And only Hamas. I think every Palestinian casualty is a tragedy. I can't speak for Israelis. But the policy of Israel and the IDF is to avoid civilian casualties if possible. But the priority is to win the war against Hamas.

FYI, if Israel didn’t go out of their way to protect Palestinian civilians, this war would have been over a long time ago. Its just sad you can't see that.

 

[DrZoidberg]

As of March, 288 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences were being held in Israeli prisons. Hamas' latest demand would require the release of all of them, including prisoners Israel has previously insisted on keeping incarcerated.

I do not think Israel should have agreed to releasing life-sentence prisoners in January either. It just sets expectations very high for the next time.

Of course it was idiotic to do a prisoner exchange for Israel. But they were under a lot of pressure both internally and externaly to do it. Netanyahu couldn't really say no.

Negotiating with kidnappers is how you get more kidnappers.

The ratios were bizarre thousands of Palestinian prisoners in exchange for one Israeli innocent hostage. Granted that Israel is holding Palestinian prisoners on legaly dodgy grounds. But all of them might be guilty of what they are held for. All of the held Israelis are innocent

To quote Nancy Reagan, "just say no" when negotiating with kidnappers

 

[ZiprHead]

To minimize something it must exist. We don't see persecution, we see Hamas causing the suffering so you'll baa.

Yeah, Hamas did this.:

View attachment 51594

I see no persecution in those photos. Look at what they are actually showing--two tunnels got bombed. Just because you can't see the tunnels doesn't mean they aren't there.

And you baa.

WTAF??? Those used to be people's homes and there are probably hundreds buried in that rubble.

I see you have been listening to NHC. During that phase of the war the average death toll by Hamas numbers was less than one per bomb. Those buildings were evacuated.

If the area was evacuated then the IDF could gone in and just mined the tunnels instead of destroying hundreds of families homes.

And how do YOU know there were tunnels there if they cannot be seen?

Look. Two lines of damage. Israel collapsed hundreds of miles of tunnels. Why in the world should we not think we are seeing buildings that collapsed when the tunnel collapse took out their foundation? Normal concrete is extremely vulnerable to that failure mode.

Then we should also have seen collapse of the ground outside the homes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The 1983-1985 famine in Ethiopia was awful, but only killed between 0.75% to 3% of the population. Some in here are apparently not happy that people aren't hungry enough.

Official numbers (by the Hamas health ministry) are still <200 dead from malnutrition. That is <0.01% of the population.

Like I said, some in here don't think Gaza is hungry enough.

 

[Tigers!]

Storing munitions in civilian areas flagrantly violates the obligation under Additional Protocol I Article 58 to take “all feasible precautions” to remove military objectives from populated zones and protect non-combatants.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/api-1977/article-58.

That breach by Hamas compounds, rather than erases, Israel’s duty as occupier to safeguard civilians and ensure humanitarian relief.

I am pleased you managed to squeeze a very muted criticism of Hamas in here.
Let me see if I understand you correctly.
Is it's Israel's duty to ensure that it does not denote muntions that Hamas has stored in the safe zones? How does Israel do that? Hamas is not going to put up a sign that says "Muntions stored here. Please do not bomb."
What clairvoyance can Isreal use to know where Hamas' muntions are stored?
What about Hamas not storing muntions there in the first place? What about Hamas not stationing themselves on the safe zones?
We all know that Hamas will use the safe zones as they care not a whit about the locals.

 

[pood]

Green Beret blows whistle on Israeli death traps at food distribution sites.

A retired U.S. Army officer who worked as a subcontractor for the shadowy Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is sounding the alarm over the atrocities he said he saw Israeli soldiers and American mercenaries carry out against starving Palestinians trying to access aid.



Lt. Col. Anthony Aguilar, who served 25 years in the U.S. Army Special Forces as a Green Beret, was hired as an independent subcontractor by UG Solutions to serve as armed security for the private, U.S.-funded GHF, which launched its so-called aid delivery sites in May.
“When I first went into this, I was excited. I felt it was a noble cause,” he told Democracy Now! on Tuesday. “Within hours of being in Israel and seeing how this was going to unfold, I immediately had dire concerns as to the intentions, as to the execution, and what was going to happen when this fails.”

Aguilar said he ended his contract on June 14 after witnessing his fellow security officers and soldiers with the Israeli Defense Forces repeatedly open fire on Palestinian civilians who had trekked to GHF’s four aid hubs. Armed officers often celebrated hitting civilians at the sites, where the United Nations says more than a thousand Palestinians have been killed.

 

[laughing dog]

So you're a committed wife beater then?

I’ve often wondered if those that employ such a despicable slander are simply projecting.

I produced a rationale for my observation. Flinging unsupported allegations is a form of evasion. If you have a rational supported by the content of my posts, you should provide it to avoid looking like an asshat.

Quit playing stupid, you know what "wife beater" means in this context and it has nothing to do with domestic violence.

Of course it has something to do with domestic violence - hence the accusation of wife beater.

It is used because it is an passive aggressive awful insult that gets people's attention. Of course, one can make the point about assuming the outcome without such an accusation.

Yet here you are, whiteknighting the use from an avowed bigot and supporter of the ethnic cleansing of the Gazans. Hmmm.

And now you double down on playing stupid.

You perfectly well know it has nothing to do with domestic violence, nor is it an insult in this usage. It's a reference to the trick question of "have you stopped beating your wife?"--the standard example of asking a question based on an unsupported claim.

When person A tells person B that some phrase they said is insulting, and person B repeats the phrase, it is meant as an insult.

Put hey, you keep doing you and white knight supporters of ethnic cleansing and insults if domestic violence.

 

[laughing dog]

[

If it looks like ethnic cleansing to you then my conclusion is that you are antisemitic.

Since that is your conclusion about anyone who disagrees with you, it means nothing.

FYI, if Israel didn’t go out of their way to protect Palestinian civilians, this war would have been over a long time ago. Its just sad you can't see that.

I can see that genocide would have ended this faster. And genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing. Thanks for confirming my conclusion that you are a sociopath.