Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[DrZoidberg]

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread.

It would be nice if you could point it out, before calling it out. Because I am not seeing it.

Nobody here has posted anything antisemitic or racist; Mere opposition to Bibi, or his policies, is neither.

Extreme double standards against Jews as well as only trusting absurd and obvious anti-Israeli propaganda is another tell tale sign.

OK; So quote someone here displaying that "sign".

I'm not going to play that game. Nice try.

You're in good company.

I am not in any company. I'm just me, expressing my opinions, while you baselessly insult me.

If you want a free pass to be racist and bigoted without being called out on it... sorry not sorry.

I also don't think it's an insult. It's a description of a behaviour.

Leftist media in general (which today is most of the mainstream media) are fully leading with the pro-Hamas propaganda line.

I don't care. I am not responsible for media, leftist or otherwise.

We learned in the Nürenberg trials that "I was just following orders" is not a valid defence in human rights cases. Tough luck for you.

What they do does not justify you insulting me.

I never insulted you. I just called you out on your behaviour (if I did call you a racist).

No doubt because it's a juicier story. It's a simpler and more emotionally impactful narrative. Sleepy people don't like nuance to read in the morning before the coffee has kicked in. It's not that they're lying. But you need to pay attention to the actual text in the articles. Not just which value laden words they lead with.

You need to pay attention to what I say. And to what I asked of you. Do you, or do you not, have an example of "antisemitism and racism im [sic] this thread"?

Stop pretending to be stupid. You're smarter than this.

The PLO figured out how to manipulate western press, by maximising Palestinian civilian suffering, and Hamas are just following that tradition.

Probably. Not my fault.

It is important context. Something most people here seem to lack. That's why I'm helping out.

Yassir Arafat didn't live in Gaza.

So? What have I even said in this thread about Arafat, or his choice of dwelling place?

Again... important context.

He lived on the French riviera in a life of luxury. Paid for by foreign aid to Gaza.

I have no reason to doubt it.

The leadership of Hamas live in Qatar, in lives of oppulence and luxury.

If you say so.

Paid for by foreign aid and Iran.

OK.

The people you think you are supporting

...wait, what ??

Do you have any idea who I am supporting? Or what I think? Because it seems not.

You jumped in this conversation claiming that you haven't been able to see the racism and antisemitism in this thread. The antisemitism here has been laid on pretty thick. And I explained it every time I called it out. So I'm not sure what your point is? I'm guessing willful ignorance?

are parasites living off the manufactured suffering of the Palestinian people. And Israel is the only viable option right now to stop them.

Perhaps. But Bibi isn't Israel, and 'bombing people into not hating you' is never a viable option.

That's not what Netanyahu is doing. Whether or not we approve or disaprove of his actions, he's fighting for the survival of Israel. Today and in the future. If Isreal shows weakness, they are fucked. All sensible Israelis know it.

Winning hearts and minds is way way down the line. If ever possible. First they need to establish basic safety. And, at the moment, that can only be gained by defanging the most critical threats to Israel. Israel is not a big bully picking on the weak. They're showing muscle to deter, the many enemies Israel is surrounded by, to attack. Whether or not you agree with Netanyahu's methods is beside the point. What is relevant is correctly identifying what he's attempting to do.

Yet you are criticising them for doing what needs to be done.

In your opinion. But you have not demonstrated that it needs to be done; You are just assuming it to be true, and hiding behind shreiks of "antisemite!" and "racist!", when asked to support your assumption.

It depends on if I feel it's a good faith conversation. There's very little of that here. It's mostly the parroting of Hamas propaganda. That's not a meaningful conversation.

How is that not antisemitism?

How the FUCK is it antisemitism? Criticising a violent person for falsely believing that violence will solve their problems, and blaming them for the suffering that directly results, is a completely secular stance. And one I have consistently adhered to in this thread.

Your selective reading, conflation of all opinions that oppose you as representative of a monolithic opponent, whose parts you consider completely interchangeable, and your utterly absurd declaration that any failure to agree with your every utterence is "antisemitism" and "racism", makes it physically repellant to me to see your posts appear in this thread.

But I don't accuse you of antisemitism, and I would thank you to avoid making such a vile slur against me, too. Or to at least supply a shred of evidence to support your poisonous accusation when repeating it.

Why are you commenting on a conflict, you clearly, don't know anything about? Perhaps you said the racist thing (if I ever called you a racist) by mistake. No matter if it's a mistake or not... it might still be deserved.

 

[DrZoidberg]

@DrZoidberg today I reported six or seven of your posts for slander, insults and rules violations.

Lol. I'm sorry the truth hurts your feelings. If you don't like being called out for the horrible things you are saying, perhaps try not saying them?

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread. I think the world needs it more than ever.

I find it extremely distutbing how quickly the world turned on Jews, the moment they again needed the world's support.

If any of my posts get removed... that'd be another sad statistic in this propaganda war.

I'm not going to stop . If any mods find any of my posts unwelcome. Please save as all the trouble and just ban me.

Dr Zoidberg, you conflate "Jewish" and "Israeli".

No I don't.

Worse, you conflate "Jewish" and "the Israeli government".

I also do not do that. When I say that Israel does stuff, it's the govornment. Everyone understands that. At no point have I said what "the Jews do".

There are Jewish people where I live who are horrified at the actions of the Israeli government and there are Israelis, Jewish and otherwise, within Israel who feel similarly about the actions of their government.

Yeah, Jews are like most people everywhere. Who would have thought? Amazing.

I defy you to cite any instance of antisemitic rhetoric here, other than disapproval of government actions which you have redirected to Jews in your own mind.

Go back to my posts where I call out antisemitism. That'll answer you question.

We have had a lot of reportage of people at aid stations gunned down by members of the IDF. How do you justify that?

Hamas fighters are disguised as civilians. So this is bound to happen. Hamas is on purpose baiting the IDF to shoot civilians by mistake.

I applaud the IDF for not backing down. Hamas is responsible for each and every one of these deaths. Not IDF. As far as I can tell, the IDF is fighting a clean and just war. Against an oponent that cannot sink any lower in moral depravity.

The Israeli government is doing a terrible thing to innocent civilians in support of their territorial ambitions. Not just direct deaths and physical harms (wounds and starvation) but destruction of homes and livelihoods. You seem to be advocating that the world not intervene because of our collective guilt over another terrible thing which happened in the past.

Nope. That's not why I am supporting Israel. Hamas puts military bases under hospitals and start crying when they get bombed. Wtf did they think was going to happen? I can tell you... exactly that. There's military tunnels all over Gaza. No shit all of Gaza gets bombed to the stone age.

What happened in WW2 has nothing to do with it. Speaking of which. When fighting Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, the west didn't take shit and just got on with it. Which is why the west won. The same needs to be done now in Gaza.

These things don't cancel each other out, it's just another 62,700 people dead in support of another predator's territorial rapacity.

It's for saying stuff like this that makes me call you an antisemite. Each of those dead can be blamed on Hamas. Not the IDF IMHO.

This isn't a war for Israeli territorial expansion. That might end up being the result. But that's not why this war was fought. Gaza and the west bank wasn't occupied because of Israeli imperial ambitious. They were taken in Israeli defensive wars. Like this one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Which elections in Gaza has Hamas boycotted since 2007?

All of municipal ones.

Last time I looked there has been no elections in Gaza since Hamas 'won' in 2007.

Are you so desperate to "score points" that you are willing to split a split hair rather than be involved in a conversation?

 

[laughing dog]

Which elections in Gaza has Hamas boycotted since 2007?

All of municipal ones.

Last time I looked there has been no elections in Gaza since Hamas 'won' in 2007.
If you have link to any other elections held in Gaza since then I would be happy to look at it.

Hamas refuses to run elections in Gaza.

Here is a link to Hamas boycotting an election
Hamas rejects Palestinian Authority’s call for municipal elections

To be clear, none of this could be rationally seen as an endorsement of Hamas or its methods. If Hamas was confident of its support, then they would hold or run candidates in elections. The fact they refuse to do so strongly suggests they are not confident of support.

 

[laughing dog]

It's for saying stuff like this that makes me call you an antisemite. Each of those dead can be blamed on Hamas. Not the IDF IMHO.

Anyone can fling "blame" on anyone for any reason. For example, each of those deaths can be blamed on Charlie Brown or you.

But the actual physical reality is that when anyone drops a bomb that kills people, the bomb is the immediate cause of their deaths. Since bombs are not made, sent and dropped only by natural, impersonal forces, but are the result of conscious choices made by people, those who choose to drop bombs are responsible for their choices, no matter how justified anyone feels those choices are.

bilby, spikepipsqueak, Arctish, zorg, Gospel Ziprhead, pood and others are recognizing that reality - that does not make them racists nor antisemites. Your adherence and persistence in your irrational slurs ,while bolstering your ego, undermine your credability as a knowledgable discussant. Frankly, your willingness to fling such slurs provides a new application to the saying "Every accusation is an admission".

 

[ZiprHead]

Hundreds of ex-Israeli security officials urge Trump to help end war in Gaza

Open letter calls on US president to pressure Israel to end conflict as Netanyahu mulls expanding offensive

www.theguardian.com

More anti semites, eh, Dr Z.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's an historic event. All other Arab nations are now sick of Hama's/Iran's bullshit. None of them are blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza. Fancy that. The people most biased against Israel has somehow failed to notice what the western tin foil hats are so convinced of. Must be all the sand in their eyes.

France and Saudis vow to keep up momentum for 'two-state solution' to Israel-Palestinian conflict

After decades of inaction and frozen negotiations, the issue of an independent Palestinian state living in peace with Israel was back in the spotlight at a high-level U.N. conference — and France and Saudi Arabia who spearheaded the effort are determined to keep up the momentum.

apnews.com

 

[laughing dog]

Here's an historic event. All other Arab nations are now sick of Hama's/Iran's bullshit. None of them are blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza. Fancy that. The people most biased against Israel has somehow failed to notice what the western tin foil hats are so convinced of. Must be all the sand in their eyes.

France and Saudis vow to keep up momentum for 'two-state solution' to Israel-Palestinian conflict

After decades of inaction and frozen negotiations, the issue of an independent Palestinian state living in peace with Israel was back in the spotlight at a high-level U.N. conference — and France and Saudi Arabia who spearheaded the effort are determined to keep up the momentum.

apnews.com

Fascinating take on a report about a push for a two state solution that Netanahyu has consistently rejected at a conference Israel boycotted. And no mention of blaming anyone.

I would guess all the Arab nationsare sick of everyone’s bullshit - Hamas’s, Fatah’s, Iran’s and Israel’s.

 

[bilby]

Fascinating take on a report about a push for a two state solution that Netanahyu has consistently rejected.

...by all the Arab nations: Saudi Arabia, AND (checks notes) France.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's an historic event. All other Arab nations are now sick of Hama's/Iran's bullshit. None of them are blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza. Fancy that. The people most biased against Israel has somehow failed to notice what the western tin foil hats are so convinced of. Must be all the sand in their eyes.

France and Saudis vow to keep up momentum for 'two-state solution' to Israel-Palestinian conflict

After decades of inaction and frozen negotiations, the issue of an independent Palestinian state living in peace with Israel was back in the spotlight at a high-level U.N. conference — and France and Saudi Arabia who spearheaded the effort are determined to keep up the momentum.

apnews.com

Fascinating take on a report about a push for a two state solution that Netanahyu has consistently rejected at a conference Israel boycotted. And no mention of blaming anyone.

I would guess all the Arab nationsare sick of everyone’s bullshit - Hamas’s, Fatah’s, Iran’s and Israel’s.

What a surprise that the Arab nations have a different agenda than Israel. That's not the point. The point is that Muslims have managed to get over their retarded anti-Israel tribalism and are trying to work towards a realistic solution.

Its an improvement over the old idea, ie "kill all Jews".

 

[laughing dog]

Here's an historic event. All other Arab nations are now sick of Hama's/Iran's bullshit. None of them are blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza. Fancy that. The people most biased against Israel has somehow failed to notice what the western tin foil hats are so convinced of. Must be all the sand in their eyes.

France and Saudis vow to keep up momentum for 'two-state solution' to Israel-Palestinian conflict

After decades of inaction and frozen negotiations, the issue of an independent Palestinian state living in peace with Israel was back in the spotlight at a high-level U.N. conference — and France and Saudi Arabia who spearheaded the effort are determined to keep up the momentum.

apnews.com

Fascinating take on a report about a push for a two state solution that Netanahyu has consistently rejected at a conference Israel boycotted. And no mention of blaming anyone.

I would guess all the Arab nationsare sick of everyone’s bullshit - Hamas’s, Fatah’s, Iran’s and Israel’s.

What a surprise that the Arab nations have a different agenda than Israel. That's not the point. The point is that Muslims have managed to get over their retarded anti-Israel tribalism and are trying to work towards a realistic solution.

Its an improvement over the old idea, ie "kill all Jews".

It is. Once Israel eliminates it retarded only-Israel tribalism, a realistic peaceful solution may be in sight.

 

[Arctish]

What a surprise that the Arab nations have a different agenda than Israel. That's not the point. The point is that Muslims have managed to get over their retarded anti-Israel tribalism and are trying to work towards a realistic solution.

Its an improvement over the old idea, ie "kill all Jews".

When was "kill all Jews" the idea of Muslim states?

The Nazis were Christians and Nazi Germany was European.

The Palestinians weren't interested in killing all Jews. Neither were the Jordanians, the Lebanese, the Saudis, the Egyptians, or the others in the area, except for a few random haters here and there that some posters like to pretend were "all Muslims".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Here's an historic event. All other Arab nations are now sick of Hama's/Iran's bullshit. None of them are blaming Israel for the situation in Gaza. Fancy that. The people most biased against Israel has somehow failed to notice what the western tin foil hats are so convinced of. Must be all the sand in their eyes.

France and Saudis vow to keep up momentum for 'two-state solution' to Israel-Palestinian conflict

After decades of inaction and frozen negotiations, the issue of an independent Palestinian state living in peace with Israel was back in the spotlight at a high-level U.N. conference — and France and Saudi Arabia who spearheaded the effort are determined to keep up the momentum.

apnews.com

Fascinating take on a report about a push for a two state solution that Netanahyu has consistently rejected at a conference Israel boycotted. And no mention of blaming anyone.

I would guess all the Arab nationsare sick of everyone’s bullshit - Hamas’s, Fatah’s, Iran’s and Israel’s.

What a surprise that the Arab nations have a different agenda than Israel. That's not the point. The point is that Muslims have managed to get over their retarded anti-Israel tribalism and are trying to work towards a realistic solution.

Its an improvement over the old idea, ie "kill all Jews".

Realistic solution? Who is paying to rebuid Gaza so Hamas can commit another atrocity and the IDF flattens the improvements?

 

[spikepipsqueak]

@DrZoidberg today I reported six or seven of your posts for slander, insults and rules violations.

Lol. I'm sorry the truth hurts your feelings. If you don't like being called out for the horrible things you are saying, perhaps try not saying them?

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread. I think the world needs it more than ever.

I find it extremely distutbing how quickly the world turned on Jews, the moment they again needed the world's support.

If any of my posts get removed... that'd be another sad statistic in this propaganda war.

I'm not going to stop . If any mods find any of my posts unwelcome. Please save as all the trouble and just ban me.

Dr Zoidberg, you conflate "Jewish" and "Israeli".

No I don't.

Worse, you conflate "Jewish" and "the Israeli government".

I also do not do that. When I say that Israel does stuff, it's the govornment. Everyone understands that. At no point have I said what "the Jews do".

Every time you wilfully misinterpret any criticism of Israeli government actions as anti-semitism you conflate the 2.

Your last sentence above makes no sense at all, in the context of this discussion.

 

[DrZoidberg]

@DrZoidberg today I reported six or seven of your posts for slander, insults and rules violations.

Lol. I'm sorry the truth hurts your feelings. If you don't like being called out for the horrible things you are saying, perhaps try not saying them?

I'm not going to stop calling out the antisemitism and racism im this thread. I think the world needs it more than ever.

I find it extremely distutbing how quickly the world turned on Jews, the moment they again needed the world's support.

If any of my posts get removed... that'd be another sad statistic in this propaganda war.

I'm not going to stop . If any mods find any of my posts unwelcome. Please save as all the trouble and just ban me.

Dr Zoidberg, you conflate "Jewish" and "Israeli".

No I don't.

Worse, you conflate "Jewish" and "the Israeli government".

I also do not do that. When I say that Israel does stuff, it's the govornment. Everyone understands that. At no point have I said what "the Jews do".

Every time you wilfully misinterpret any criticism of Israeli government actions as anti-semitism you conflate the 2.

No I don't. I separate the two. The problem isn't keeping them separate. The IDF have made sensible and restrained strategic choices in this war, (considering the opponent they're up against).

For example: When Hamas booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah, the IDF just levelled Rafah from above. That’s the sound strategic choice. That destruction should be blamed on Hamas. Those houses would likely have needed to come down anyway in the process of removing the booby traps. Its near impossible to do it safely without detonating them.

Instead it has widely been described as genocide, Israeli expansion, forced displacement and god knows what else.

When the double standards are this extreme, I think antisemitism is a valid conclusion

 

[Arctish]

DrZoidberg has me on Ignore so I am unable to ask him, but I do wonder how the IDF knew Hamas had booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah.

I also wonder how the civilians avoided the booby traps. And why, if it was possible for civilians to avoid them, it wasn't feasible for the IDF to avoid them as well.

 

[Tigers!]

Which elections in Gaza has Hamas boycotted since 2007?

All of municipal ones.

Last time I looked there has been no elections in Gaza since Hamas 'won' in 2007.

Are you so desperate to "score points" that you are willing to split a split hair rather than be involved in a conversation?

Boycotting elections is not the same as not allowing elections. Accuracy is important.

I try to be as accurate as possible (not always though). Accuracy enables us to have better conversations.

 

[Tigers!]

Which elections in Gaza has Hamas boycotted since 2007?

All of municipal ones.

Last time I looked there has been no elections in Gaza since Hamas 'won' in 2007.
If you have link to any other elections held in Gaza since then I would be happy to look at it.

Hamas refuses to run elections in Gaza.

Here is a link to Hamas boycotting an election
Hamas rejects Palestinian Authority’s call for municipal elections

To be clear, none of this could be rationally seen as an endorsement of Hamas or its methods. If Hamas was confident of its support, then they would hold or run candidates in elections. The fact they refuse to do so strongly suggests they are not confident of support.

No disagreement with your last paragraph.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Blockading food and medicine is not defending oneself from attack. Hamas cannot hoard what is not there.

90% got intercepted in Gaza. That's what Hamas hoarded.

How does blockaded food - food that is not in Gaza (that’s what blockade means) - get intercepted in Gaza?

You are continuing to assume "facts" clearly contrary to reality.

You claim blockade.

Israel claimed blockade

Can you pay a little attention? The issue is the UN just admitted that 90% of the stuff that had entered Gaza did not reach the UN distribution sites. Already entered, blockade isn't relevant.

>Read the thread. I linked to the UN page with the data
.

How about a post number? I’m not searching through your posts.

I don't recall the post number. Here's the horse's mouth again:

UN2720 Monitoring & Tracking Dashboard

Live humanitarian access tracking through UN2720.

app.un2720.org

I'm saying the words are being taken out of context by those who wish to continue to blame Israel.

The facts are simple:
90% got diverted after crossing the border.
Nobody can actually prove who did the diversion.

Thus a reporter asked a loaded question that produced the answer you are quoting.

You’ve refused to provide any evidence that contradicts the Israeli military officers. You rely on an alleged unsourced (at this writing), undefined and self-constructed statistic and supposition to rebut the Israeli military officer's conclusions.

The problem is that you are misinterpreting the statement. Two issues: "was aid diverted" and "did it go to Hamas". The second part of this remains unproven. Thus the statement was true (there is no proof it was taken by Hamas), but does not mean what you pretend (that it wasn't diverted.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I've emphasized the question in bold to manage the "vagueness" of my explicit question.

But wait... TomC didn't say that... at least not yet. So, the question is, to TomC what level of Israeli retaliation would supercede the moral authority created by Hamas' massacre on October 7?

The problem here is that you think there should be an exchange rate in the first place. That is horrifying and sets up more slaughter down to road because Iran is happy to pay in Gazan lives.

The reality is Hamas still holds hostages. Israel is free to keep going after them, period. Pay attention to how careful they are in shooting, but don't tell them to quit while there are hostages unrescued.