Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Jimmy Higgins]

only even more at risk of being held accountable should be lose his iron grip on power. His grip on power depends on Israelis being terrorized enough to tolerate him.

Jesus christ... what loony insanity tin foil hat news are you getting?

Israel is a modern and very healthy democracy

The guy in charge was trying to consolidate power and take over Israel as a dictator. It's democracy is in danger, not healthy. Sure, compared to Syria it is healthy, but that is a low bar.

He's not in power because Israelis are terrorised by him. He's in power for the same reason Trump is in power in USA. Namely that the left has lost the plot and now only focuses on complete bullshit issues, which have alienated their voter base.

He is more in power because he took advantage of the 10/7 massacre to get control of the Government, a Government that was extremely fractured due to multiple elections leading to very poor mandates. He rules now like he won in a landslide.

Before 7/10 most Israelis thought he was paranoid for hammering on about Irans plan to attack Israel. He was proven correct.

Oddly enough, while PM, didn't apparently give a fuck about the red flags that were waving around prior to the massacre. Much like W, he was rewarded for his incompetence.

Israeli voters know this now. Which will be excellent for him next election.

You aren't paying much attention to the on-goings in Israel, are you.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Netanyahu also doesn't have an "iron grip" on Israel. He's heading a weak coalition. He has to compromise all the time. If he would have had his way he'd be way more forceful. He absolutely would not have done any hostage/prisoner exchange with Hamas.

Netanyahu doesn't have the grip on power you think he does.

Enough in the ruling coalition understand what a foe they are up against and are making sound strategic choices. Netanyahu isn't an American president. He can't just order around the army. His cabinet has a lot of power to stop him. They don't because they, so far, agree with what he's done

 

[steve_bank]

Netanyahu's collation has always been a balancing act. He original made a bargain with religious conservatives.

Benjamin Netanyahu has been in power as Prime Minister of Israel for over 15 years across multiple terms, including his first term (1996–1999), a long second tenure (2009–2021), and his current term which began in December 2022. He is the longest-serving prime minister in Israel's history

Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party forms coalitions with various right-wing and religious parties to govern, representing conservative and religious voters, particularly those focused on security and national identity, though the specific composition of his coalitions has changed over time. His government's policies, such as judicial reform, have been met with both support from his coalition's base and widespread opposition from other segments of Israeli society. a

Netanyahu tried to eliminate judicial review of the legislature. Before the war he was facing legal issues and loss of power, the war keeps him in power stoking Jewish nationalism. But it s starting to fail. The word genocide is being used in Israel and some in the military is seeing no point and no end to the war. Think VN War.

Machiavellian, the first of business when in power is s to stay in power. Ends justify the means.

 

[robnisch]

Have they reached eye for an eye yet?

 

[Arctish]

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

1) Fences were up, not walls.

2) So what if they did? A country is free to put any barrier it wants on it's borders, there is nothing wrongful in doing so.

Israel is only free to put up fences, walls, barriers, etc. on land that belongs to it. It has some limited authority to put up barriers on land under military occupation but no authority to annex that land or to pretend it now belongs to Israel.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://genevacouncil.com/hamas-and-the-un-aid-in-gaza-facts-perspectives-and-humanitarian-impact/

Revisiting Israeli Military Claims on Hamas and UN Aid​

In a significant policy and intelligence shift, senior Israeli military officials have publicly disclosed a remarkable finding that contradicts previous rhetoric:

“There is no evidence that Hamas routinely stole United Nations aid,”

according to two senior Israeli military officials and two other Israelis intimately involved with Gaza aid operations. These officials have conveyed that Israeli intelligence and assessments found no substantiation for the allegations of systematic theft of UN aid supplies by Hamas.

This admission implicitly challenges the Israeli government’s prior justifications for imposing strict aid restrictions and rerouting shipments, which were premised substantially on the argument that humanitarian supplies were being exploited by Hamas militias to control Gaza’s population.

While a military statement released concurrently still maintains that acts of looting by Hamas have been documented in some contexts, this statement does not contradict the military’s acknowledgment of the UN’s aid delivery system’s robustness and the absence of evidence for regular, systematic looting of UN-controlled aid. This nuanced position highlights the complexity of aid management in a highly militarized and politically volatile environment.

 

[Elixir]

Palestinians are both complicit to the crimes of Hamas as well as being its victim. At the same time

Despite all the evidence to the contrary.

My bad. I guess all the hostages were just Israelis out on a bender in Gaza and got lost? I sure hope they get in touch when they sober up, and we can sort this whole thing out

Israel locked Gazans into a prison with Hamas, not Hamas. Gazans are not allowed to have weapons so the only weapons in Gaza are those smuggled in by Hamas, for Hamas. Hamas is just as brutal to Gazans that resist as they are to Israelis.

Your statement is utterly ridiculous.

And you're a tin foil hat loony.

Are you going to accuse the Jews of eating Christian babies next?

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

I'm sorry. I must have missed when she expressed this fantasy. If only I could back in time to see that.

Gaza–Israel barrier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When they switched from a flimsy fence to an actual wall is when the suicide bombings stopped.

I'd call Toni a left wing extremist. And why left wing extremists have chosen to get in bed by Islamofacist terrorists.. I don't know. It's a mystery. Because Islamofascist hates the left wing. But it's what they have done. I don't get it.

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

We have a sharp rise in antisemitic hate right now. People on the left, do not seem to care what's happening in Gaza. They just make up absurd bullshit stories, just so they can hate Jews. It doesn't matter how outlandish stories are spread. People just love hating Jews. Similar to how things went down in the 1930'ies. Enough people didn't speak up then. So I'm doing it now. You might think it's just Jews and nobody cares about Jews. But I don't like any minority being targetted like this. So I'm going to continue to call out bigots and racists on this forum.

The main bigot and racist on this forum is you.

Ha ha. I'm sure Hitler also felt misunderstood

Well, if it’s any consolation, Trump certainly feels that way. Can’t understand why everybody doesn’t love a pedophilic fraudster rapist liar.

 

[Elixir]

That's not what I said.

It is exactly what you wrote. If it’s not what you meant, an edit or clarification is due.

 

[Elixir]

His cabinet has a lot of power to stop him. They don't because they, so far, agree with what he's done

Yah, very much as Congress has total power to stop The Felon. In both cases, the coalition would go down with the corrupt leader.
The overriding consideration is simply staying in power. Bibi will be in court and probably in jail as soon as he is deposed - if he ever is.

 

[Elixir]

Have they reached eye for an eye yet?

I think it’s at “an eye for an eye yi yi yi” now.

 

[TomC]

That's not what I said.

It is exactly what you wrote. If it’s not what you meant, an edit or clarification is due.

What Zoid said was quite clear,

UN is using Hamas (it's civilian arm of the government) to distribute all its aid. It doesn't have to divert shit. It controls all of it, and always did since taking power in Gaza. In alignment with official UN policy

The UN is using a civilian arm of Hamas to distribute all of the UN aid. That was obvious.

Unless, of course, you insist that every horror suffered by Gazans must be Israel's fault. That's a common theme amongst the apologists for Muslim supremacists who post in this thread.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have a sharp rise in antisemitic hate right now. People on the left, do not seem to care what's happening in Gaza. They just make up absurd bullshit stories, just so they can hate Jews. It doesn't matter how outlandish stories are spread. People just love hating Jews. Similar to how things went down in the 1930'ies. Enough people didn't speak up then. So I'm doing it now. You might think it's just Jews and nobody cares about Jews. But I don't like any minority being targetted like this. So I'm going to continue to call out bigots and racists on this forum.

I still think you're seeing malice in a situation where there are other explanations.

It's the standard technique: present a horrible situation, present the "only" "solution". An awful lot of people will grasp at straws to avoid the horrible situation.

And it's basically a matter of faith to the left that there is a good solution and a failure to find it is the fault of the side with the most power. Therefore Israel must be wrong. And as tends to happen things which are blasphemous to a faith tend to be misunderstood by the faithful. Ideas are filtered before they are understood. (This is no way limited to the left. The right goes just as wrong about faith, just in different situations.)

It sure waddles and quacks like antisemitism but I think it's really just falling for the Hamas propaganda.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why in the heck would you suggest I think that the hostages should forever remain hostages? Are you that certain of your own infalible brain, that any other thoughts have to be wickedpy wrong?

The hostages will remain hostages until something is done to deal with the situation.

Israel has tried releasing terrorists, it got them 10/7 and this time around Hamas simply quit going along. There is no other path to free them but force.

ETA, one important thing to remember is that just because one side has a viable grievance, doesn't automatically make their response to the grievance constructive and/or moral.

Which is not presenting any other viable approach.

I remember writing right after the 9/11 attack that the hope was in that when all was said and done, that 9/11 remained the outstanding moral atrocity, not our response to it.

We didn't really have a choice. We had to clobber Afghanistan for reasons of deterrence.

A country that doesn't mount a major response to things like 9/11 or 10/7 becomes the target of every bully around.

Your faith is wrong, sometimes there are only horrible choices.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We have aid workers coming back saying this is not being done by "snipers" who work from the shadows so they cannot be identified but by Israelis soldiers doing so out in the open.

And you don't see the double standard?

The shooters work from the shadows and can't be identified. Thus it's Israel, why???

Did your train of thought derail before you got to the second half of the last sentence???

And your faith is blinding you.

Your "evidence" is shots from unidentified people. Unidentified is unidentified, I'm questioning why you assume it's Israel. The outcome of such shots is highly negative for Israel, highly positive for Hamas. Shouldn't that put Hamas on the suspect list?

I'm reminded of the old joke about the car with black people sitting at a stop sign, rear ended by a car with white people and the cop asking the white guy how fast the black car was going when it had backed into them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

1) Fences were up, not walls.

2) So what if they did? A country is free to put any barrier it wants on it's borders, there is nothing wrongful in doing so.

Gaza is now another country?

Yes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Most of what you consider to be BS is not. You just refuse to believe it. Then you unjustifiably call people names.

If it's not BS why does your side never even try to defend it?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Inspired, yes, but it's a worldwide problem. By merging it in here it's gotten totally buried. Aid basically enslaves the population while letting us pretend we are doing good.

Please explain how Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and heads of other large corporations and the corporations themselves are slaves? Does their enslavement make them think that it is ok to enrich CEOs while not paying their fair share of taxes? While paying their workers a sub living wage? Are they racing to see who can become the first trillionaire in order to assuage the wounds their slavery due to all of the corporate welfare they’re forced to accept?

Loren, you make zero sense.

I make no sense? I'm trying to figure out how your response is remotely related to what I said.

The study that nobody is willing to address showed how across the world humanitarian aid is nearly totally diverted to the oppressors. This has no relationship to billionaires.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Granted that the Palestinian civilians can be considered innocent. But it was Hamas responsibility to ensure their safety and get them out of harms way when hostilities broke out. Normally the government ensures that civilians can evacuate and be moved somewhere safe. This was and is not Israels responsibility.

They shouldn't have started hostilities without a plan for how to move the civilians out of the way. The fact that they hadn't done that, but on purpose used civilians as human shields means Hamas has 100% of responsibility for every Palestinian killed. Civilian or otherwise.

And anyone who wants to blame Israel for the Palestinian civilians killed will just have to get used to be called racist and bigoted

Those civilians are by far Hamas' biggest weapon. Of course no provisions would be made to get them out of there.

Nor could they realistically do so--Gaza has exactly two borders, both of which know that refugees will be weaponized and thus will not tolerate them whatsoever.

 

[Elixir]

Bibi is corrupt, undemocratic and reliant upon terror for his political life.
If it’s not true why don’t genocide supporters argue it?

 

[steve_bank]

As much as it might make you feel uncomfortable, Jews have a right to defend themselves. You can’t send hundreds of suicide bombers over a border and then start crying when they put a wall up

Toni has already proven that the walls were put up before the suicide bombing campaign began. You do understand the concept of time, right?

The rest of your post is just the same insulting drivel you always post.

1) Fences were up, not walls.

2) So what if they did? A country is free to put any barrier it wants on it's borders, there is nothing wrongful in doing so.

Israel is only free to put up fences, walls, barriers, etc. on land that belongs to it. It has some limited authority to put up barriers on land under military occupation but no authority to annex that land or to pretend it now belongs to Israel.

Therein lie the rub. Jew seized Arab land and with no compensation. The borders of Israel by agreement after the war were supposed to be settled, but Israel has never abide bay any agreements.

The border of Israel is wherever Israel can get away with setting it. When Israel seized Palestinian farms on the border Netanyahu when questioned said 'it is just a small piece of land'.