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The Manhood Trap

I have skills in everything from machinistry to agriculture, software engineering, soldering, woodworking, welding, illustration, marketing, product design, 3d modeling, some HVAC stuff, and so on... I even targeted really weird and abstract skills, like forming a theory of ethics/morality and free will.
I can fully appreciate having skills such as the above but without a sheepskin in those skill the job market will be sparse.
 
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Please elaborate on the meaning of “the woman mantra”,
Are you capable of actually parsing English?
Yes. Are you capable of writing in English?
Loren Pechtel said:
The proper grouping is "believe the woman".
Thank you. Given your explanation, I’m sorry I asked.
 
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
 
And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
That sounds like a good reason to get to know her better, before having sex.

If you want to choose not to do that, then its a risk you elected to take, and any consequences are entirely foreseeable, and are on you.
 
I'm a bit professionally appalled at the seeming implication that this should be considered a primary purpose of college campuses. We exist to support and educate students for their future as professional workers and citizens of this country. Not to help them hook up, or avoid the serious consequences of doing so for that matter. And I don't believe, again, that this is actually an issue young men are themselves upset about to the point of disenrolling from or flunking out of college. It sounds more like something the right-wing media have cooked up, one of those things that only makes sense if you live inside the distorted reality they create. There are huge barriers to success, for all students, and young men I talk to have plenty of issues with how the colleges are run, whether they are capable of surviving it, and how a degree is supposed to fit in their lives. But not once has a male student told me, at least, that sexual unavailability of females is a barrier to academic success.

The scholarship thing is another matter. That, I hear complaints about constantly.
 
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
AFAIK, no one is being expelled because one person accused another person of rape.

If you have such evidence, you should present it.

The fact is that students are being heavily discouraged from reporting the actual crime to actual police. Students are discouraged from reporting it to anyone in an official capacity.

For the most part, students do not report sexual assault especially if it occurs on campus and especially if drugs or alcohol were involved. Drugs and alcohol are not allowed must campuses ( even though there is a lot of drugs and alcohol on most campuses) and by going to school officials with a claim of rape while intoxicated, the victim is admitting to violating policy which can have serious consequences for the student. Even though a disinterested person would say that the rape was far more serious a violation of the student code of conduct, we’re still talking about kids who, fir the most part, are in their own further first time and are trying hard to meet the responsibility while being to independent and mature to be a baby about things like your roommate having loud sex in the room where you are trying to sleep on a nightly basis. It is not at all difficult to imagine a rape victim being expelled from their dormitory for using alcohol or drugs and the person who assaulted them facing zero consequences. After all, you have one student confessing to violating the student code of conduct while the other is saying Who me? with big innocent eyes.

Keep in mind that while most college students are legally adults, most are still kids with very imperfect judgement and risk assessment skills and most honestly want to be good or at least not upset their parents.

It is definitely true that consent can be messy and awkward and where drugs and alcohol are involved can and often does become very messy and unclear. Doubtless mistakes are made with no intention of causing harm. But just as certain, sometimes there is a deliberate choice to get someone very drunk or to take advantage of someone who is very drunk.

And there are individuals who very much do not take no for an answer, who use drugs and/or alcohol to diminish the ability of the other person to resist advances —and some few who frankly get off on hurting other people: it’s a feature, not a bug. I’ve had occasion to witness all of this myself. My POV is an informed one, and not by the happiest of circumstances.
 
And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
That sounds like a good reason to get to know her better, before having sex.

If you want to choose not to do that, then its a risk you elected to take, and any consequences are entirely foreseeable, and are on you.
Would that be good? Yes. Should the government introduce artificial hazards to make it more dangerous? No.
 
And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
That sounds like a good reason to get to know her better, before having sex.

If you want to choose not to do that, then its a risk you elected to take, and any consequences are entirely foreseeable, and are on you.
Would that be good? Yes. Should the government introduce artificial hazards to make it more dangerous? No.
That implies age of consent laws are “artificial hazards” and therefore not exist.
 
I misread the thread title as the Mahmoud Trap, assumed it was started by Derec to complain about Muslims, and decided to skip it.

Guess I need to get my eyes checked.
 
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
AFAIK, no one is being expelled because one person accused another person of rape.

If you have such evidence, you should present it.
Didn't take long at all.




And an explanation of what's happening:


The fact is that students are being heavily discouraged from reporting the actual crime to actual police. Students are discouraged from reporting it to anyone in an official capacity.
And that's supposed to be a reason to not care about justice?

How about this "rape" that I found in the above search?

 
O
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
AFAIK, no one is being expelled because one person accused another person of rape.

If you have such evidence, you should present it.
Didn't take long at all.




And an explanation of what's happening:


The fact is that students are being heavily discouraged from reporting the actual crime to actual police. Students are discouraged from reporting it to anyone in an official capacity.
And that's supposed to be a reason to not care about justice?

How about this "rape" that I found in the above search?

So you dug up years old allegations of false allegations at 1) a high school and 2) with facts as presented by the defense attorneys of the accused. Not unbiased at all.

Discouraging university students from reporting rape to the police indeed is contrary to seeking justice —and maintaining a safe environment for all students.

BTW, I read the attorney’s version of events which are obviously skewed to support his clients’ innocence, not an unbiased account of events.

I definitely know and understand that when talking about individuals who are 18-22 ( typical college age), assessing ones’ level of intoxication and one’s level of competence is not particularly accurate. Indeed, one of the hallmarks of being intoxicated is impaired judgement.

It can be even more difficult to assess the level of intoxication of someone else—even more so if you are intoxicated yourself. Or if you are biased: you really want to have sex with the intoxicated person and so your hormones tell you that they are not that drunk.

FWIW, knowing you should charge your phone is not a decent measure of level of intoxication. I’ve known very drunk people to be hyper vigilant ( to the extent possible) who absolutely educated on some minor responsible thing to do but who absolutely were unsafe to drive or even to walk to the bathroom unaided.
 
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O
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
AFAIK, no one is being expelled because one person accused another person of rape.

If you have such evidence, you should present it.
Didn't take long at all.




And an explanation of what's happening:


The fact is that students are being heavily discouraged from reporting the actual crime to actual police. Students are discouraged from reporting it to anyone in an official capacity.
And that's supposed to be a reason to not care about justice?

How about this "rape" that I found in the above search?

So you dug up years old allegations of false allegations at 1) a high school and 2) with facts as presented by the defense attorneys of the accused. Not unbiased at all.

Discouraging university students from reporting rape to the police indeed is contrary to seeking justice —and maintaining a safe environment for all students.

BTW, I read the attorney’s version of events which are obviously skewed to support his clients’ innocence, not an unbiased account of events.

I definitely know and understand that when talking about individuals who are 18-22 ( typical college age), assessing ones’ level of intoxication and one’s level of competence is not particularly accurate. Indeed, one of the hallmarks of being intoxicated is impaired judgement.

It can be even more difficult to assess the level of intoxication of someone else—even more so if you are intoxicated yourself. Or if you are biased: you really want to have sex with the intoxicated person and so your hormones tell you that they are not that drunk.

FWIW, knowing you should charge your phone is not a decent measure of level of intoxication. I’ve known very drunk people to be hyper vigilant ( to the extent possible) who absolutely educated on some minor responsible thing to do but who absolutely were unsafe to drive or even to walk to the bathroom unaided.
The question was whether it existed. Clearly it does. I didn't do a detailed search. And of course they're old--people don't discuss active cases. The issue is expulsion (or pseudo-expulsion: keeping him out of any classes they share effectively expels them if they're in the same year and same degree--that is, classmates) based on accusation. That's going to be a major blow (good luck getting into another school when they found out why) with no recourse.
 
O
I do not believe that it is useful to talk about what someone shouldn't be doing, unless one has an alternative suggestion. As far as I know, the radical morons running the Democratic Party are not in fact opposed to heterosexuality in any way, so what is it you want them to do exactly?
The always believe the woman mantra. Especially how universities were expected to handle rape allegations on campus. That made casual heterosexual sex dangerous.
Dangerous? Wasn't aware expulsions were so common.
You don’t get it: Casual heterosexual sex having negative consequences for MEN is a problem. Casual heterosexual sex that carries a significant risk of unwanted pregnancy for women? Who cares?

And god forbid men be expected to ensure that their sex partners are fully consenting and capable of consent. I mean, don’t we all accept that men are just overgrown 2 year olds who are incapable of delaying gratification or considering another human beings feelings and needs?

It’s almost as though blue balls is a myth and not a serious health concern for men…
The problem is the establishing guilt part is being omitted. Straight from accusation to punishment. And in a casual situation you can't really know the person isn't a crazy that might make a false accusation.
AFAIK, no one is being expelled because one person accused another person of rape.

If you have such evidence, you should present it.
Didn't take long at all.




And an explanation of what's happening:


The fact is that students are being heavily discouraged from reporting the actual crime to actual police. Students are discouraged from reporting it to anyone in an official capacity.
And that's supposed to be a reason to not care about justice?

How about this "rape" that I found in the above search?

So you dug up years old allegations of false allegations at 1) a high school and 2) with facts as presented by the defense attorneys of the accused. Not unbiased at all.

Discouraging university students from reporting rape to the police indeed is contrary to seeking justice —and maintaining a safe environment for all students.

BTW, I read the attorney’s version of events which are obviously skewed to support his clients’ innocence, not an unbiased account of events.

I definitely know and understand that when talking about individuals who are 18-22 ( typical college age), assessing ones’ level of intoxication and one’s level of competence is not particularly accurate. Indeed, one of the hallmarks of being intoxicated is impaired judgement.

It can be even more difficult to assess the level of intoxication of someone else—even more so if you are intoxicated yourself. Or if you are biased: you really want to have sex with the intoxicated person and so your hormones tell you that they are not that drunk.

FWIW, knowing you should charge your phone is not a decent measure of level of intoxication. I’ve known very drunk people to be hyper vigilant ( to the extent possible) who absolutely educated on some minor responsible thing to do but who absolutely were unsafe to drive or even to walk to the bathroom unaided.
The question was whether it existed. Clearly it does. I didn't do a detailed search. And of course they're old--people don't discuss active cases. The issue is expulsion (or pseudo-expulsion: keeping him out of any classes they share effectively expels them if they're in the same year and same degree--that is, classmates) based on accusation. That's going to be a major blow (good luck getting into another school when they found out why) with no recourse.
Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
 
Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
The lower level courses, yes. But every high level course I took was offered only once per semester. And we used the same labs.

And what happens to the guy thrown out of school by a false allegation?
 
Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
The lower level courses, yes. But every high level course I took was offered only once per semester. And we used the same labs.

And what happens to the guy thrown out of school by a false allegation?
He can enroll in a different school.

Define false allegation.

I strongly suspect that you believe that such 'false allegations' are because someone has drunk sex with someone that they regret after. What you probably will continue to fail to understand is that most people who are raped have a great many regrets, including over things they had no control over or had no reasonable foreknowledge of. So, a young person goes to a party and someone slips something in their drink or gives her a drink much stronger than expected and they find themselves in a room, not knowing how they got there and not really knowing who that person on top of them is and is unable to form an effective defense or even protest. Yeah, there are a LOT of regrets but it's still rape.
 
Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
The lower level courses, yes. But every high level course I took was offered only once per semester. And we used the same labs.

And what happens to the guy thrown out of school by a false allegation?
He can enroll in a different school.
No, because no school will take him. Lifelong punishment without any trial.
Define false allegation.

I strongly suspect that you believe that such 'false allegations' are because someone has drunk sex with someone that they regret after. What you probably will continue to fail to understand is that most people who are raped have a great many regrets, including over things they had no control over or had no reasonable foreknowledge of. So, a young person goes to a party and someone slips something in their drink or gives her a drink much stronger than expected and they find themselves in a room, not knowing how they got there and not really knowing who that person on top of them is and is unable to form an effective defense or even protest. Yeah, there are a LOT of regrets but it's still rape.
Just because some women are roofied doesn't mean that all drunk sex is rape.
 
Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
The lower level courses, yes. But every high level course I took was offered only once per semester. And we used the same labs.

And what happens to the guy thrown out of school by a false allegation?
He can enroll in a different school.
No, because no school will take him. Lifelong punishment without any trial.
Define false allegation.

I strongly suspect that you believe that such 'false allegations' are because someone has drunk sex with someone that they regret after. What you probably will continue to fail to understand is that most people who are raped have a great many regrets, including over things they had no control over or had no reasonable foreknowledge of. So, a young person goes to a party and someone slips something in their drink or gives her a drink much stronger than expected and they find themselves in a room, not knowing how they got there and not really knowing who that person on top of them is and is unable to form an effective defense or even protest. Yeah, there are a LOT of regrets but it's still rape.
Just because some women are roofied doesn't mean that all drunk sex is rape.
One does not have to be roofied to be raped while drunk. One dies not have to be drunk to be raped. Of course some guys prefer that their victim be drunk or roofied it unconscious.

I do not understand exactly where you are getting the impression that there are women who regret having sex and so they accuse the guy of raping them.

Lots of people face sex that they regret after —or during.

Regret is not what makes something rape. Not giving consent DOES make it rape.

Most rape victims very much have a lot of regrets after they’ve been raped. The regrets are not what make it rape. Lack of consent makes it rape.

Lack of consent of course is a very mild version of coercion—force

Again, for those of you who are hard of hearing: Lack of consent is rape.


Yes, a student accused of rape may find it difficult to be admitted to another university but that’s not impossible. Other reasons a student might find it daunting fictitious to be admitted to another university would include academic dishonesty or theft, assault and serious property damage or other serious crimes. Of course academic dishonesty is not a criminal offense.

My opinion is that universities should suspend a student credibly accused of rape pending the outcome of their trial. Because those accused of rape should be investigated and charged, if warranted abd brought to trial.
 
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Depends on the size of school. I mostly attended large universities with multiple sections of courses. Not hard to avoid someone.

What do you think it does to a rape victim to have to continue to live in the same dormitory or be in the same classes with your rapist?
The lower level courses, yes. But every high level course I took was offered only once per semester. And we used the same labs.

And what happens to the guy thrown out of school by a false allegation?
He can enroll in a different school.
No, because no school will take him. Lifelong punishment without any trial.
Define false allegation.

I strongly suspect that you believe that such 'false allegations' are because someone has drunk sex with someone that they regret after. What you probably will continue to fail to understand is that most people who are raped have a great many regrets, including over things they had no control over or had no reasonable foreknowledge of. So, a young person goes to a party and someone slips something in their drink or gives her a drink much stronger than expected and they find themselves in a room, not knowing how they got there and not really knowing who that person on top of them is and is unable to form an effective defense or even protest. Yeah, there are a LOT of regrets but it's still rape.
Just because some women are roofied doesn't mean that all drunk sex is rape.
You did not define false allegation.
 
The question was whether it existed. Clearly it does. I didn't do a detailed search. And of course they're old--people don't discuss active cases. The issue is expulsion (or pseudo-expulsion: keeping him out of any classes they share effectively expels them if they're in the same year and same degree--that is, classmates) based on accusation. That's going to be a major blow (good luck getting into another school when they found out why) with no recourse.
He was removed due to accusations of sexual harassment. With male predators being held account these days, schools likely need to adapt to being able to manage some level of judicial review. The best option would be for the state legal board to create an outline for guidance. Of course, a school is a school, not a court. We rarely ever have a person accused of assault admit to it. So there will usually be some level of doubt as there are two sides. Being able to manage it evenly and fairly is important.

Of course, the number of people being expelled because of this seems awfully small.
 
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