Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[steve_bank]

Putting aside the issue of l;and seizure, Palestinians do not have the ability for stable self rule.

Hamas and Fatah fought a civil war having nothing to do with Israel.

Before the Intifada and Israel closing the border Palestinians crossed to work in Israel. Israel was gateway for Palestinian exports.

Hamas has always suppressed political opposition.

Fatah–Hamas conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Fatah–Hamas conflict (Arabic: النزاع بين فتح وحماس, romanized: an-Nizāʿ bayna Fataḥ wa-Ḥamās) is an ongoing political and strategic conflict between Fatah and Hamas, the two main Palestinian political parties in the Palestinian territories, leading to the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in June 2007. The reconciliation process and unification of Hamas and Fatah administrations remains unfinalized and the situation is deemed a frozen conflict.

The Palestinian Independent Commission for Citizens' Rights has found that over 600 Palestinians were killed in the fighting from January 2006 to May 2007.[26] Dozens more were killed or executed in the following years as part of the conflict.

Battle of Gaza (2007) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Battle of Gaza, also known as the Gaza civil war, was a brief civil war between Fatah and Hamas that took place in the Gaza Strip from 10 to 15 June 2007. It was a prominent event in the Fatah–Hamas conflict, centered on the struggle for power after the fall of the National Unity Government between Hamas and Fatah, which was dissolved shortly afterwards.[3] This led to the de facto division of the Palestinian territories into two entities: the West Bank governed by the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), and the Gaza Strip governed by Hamas. Hamas fighters took control of the Gaza Strip, while Fatah officials were either taken as prisoners, executed, or expelled.[3][4] The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights reported that at least 161 people were killed and more than 700 were wounded during the fighting.[1]

Peace will require an international militray presence and oversight to maintain order.

When Yassar Arafat, remember him?, left college it was like he went to a job fair and chose terrorism as an occupation. First he went to Jordan causing trouble, then to Gaza and the West Bank

He was corrupt. When he died his wife ended up in France with a lot of money.

A lot of aid money from the USA, Europe, and Arabs went into Gaza and the West Bank.

Th region is tribal. On the plus side Israel is an island of stability ina sea of chaos.

 

[Gospel]

Oh, goody. Internal fighting in Gaza. The jihadi maffia family Doughmush is attacking Hamas.

We don't want them to win. A clan, in every way, more ruthless than Hamas. It would suck if Hamas successors are more extreme than Hamas

What do you mean by “we”? Netanyahu himself said Israel armed certain Gaza clans opposed to Hamas, why assume the Dughmush couldn’t have been among them?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Oh, goody. Internal fighting in Gaza. The jihadi maffia family Doughmush is attacking Hamas.

We don't want them to win. A clan, in every way, more ruthless than Hamas. It would suck if Hamas successors are more extreme than Hamas

What do you mean by “we”? Netanyahu himself said Israel armed certain Gaza clans opposed to Hamas, why assume the Dughmush couldn’t have been among them?

Doughmush certainly are opposed to Hamas. Its just that they hate Jews even more. If they win it'll get worse. Doughmush think Hamas is soft on Jews

 

[DrZoidberg]

Its a good day. The last hostages that are still alive have been returned.

That's something to celebrate

 

[Gospel]

Yeah, I'm glad to see a ceasefire. Innocent people on both sides deserve peace and stability. It won’t last while Hamas still holds power, but for now, I hope civilians can breathe.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Its a good day. The last hostages that are still alive have been returned.

That's something to celebrate

To be grateful for. Celebrate... seems a little callous of the losses of those who were hostages (and their families) for over two years.

 

[TomC]

Its a good day. The last hostages that are still alive have been returned.

That's something to celebrate

To be grateful for. Celebrate... seems a little callous of the losses of those who were hostages (and their families) for over two years.

You do have a good point.
Also, the kidnapping victims who came back in bits and pieces.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, I'm glad to see a ceasefire. Innocent people on both sides deserve peace and stability. It won’t last while Hamas still holds power, but for now, I hope civilians can breathe.

Actually, I think that is going to be another thing in a couple years, all of the caustic dust that has been inhaled, but many of the Gazans are homeless, so I think actions for that problem exists to deal with poorly first, and then we can ignore the cancer and other lung related maladies that will be coming up.

Trump is proclaiming peace already, much like how he proclaimed the end of the tensions on the Korean peninsula. All he has in his hand is a prologue, at best.

 

[bilby]

Palestinians do not have the ability for stable self rule.

That is one of the most vile statements of casual and thoughtless racism it has ever been my misfortune to see.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Its a good day. The last hostages that are still alive have been returned.

That's something to celebrate

To be grateful for. Celebrate... seems a little callous of the losses of those who were hostages (and their families) for over two years.

Why? Why would celebrating the survivors coming home be callous? I can't follow your logic.

 

[steve_bank]

The region is a shithole. There is no other way to put it.

Arabs are aginst each oter, and Arabs are against Parisians. Iran cosiderrs Saudi ASrabia ilgetmate Islam and wnats to topple the monarchy. There were assassination attempts in the ast.

WE got rid of Hussein and factions fought each other.

We got rid of Qaddafi and Libya is fractured.

Lebanon was once a vacation detonation, until a factional civil war having nothing to do with Israel Now it is a shithole occupied with militants armed by Iran. The government is not in control.

In the midst of all that tiny Israel built itself up into a modern state. Whatever issues I have with Israel that is a kind of a miracle.

As I said, I try and look at both sides,

They have had elections but Hamas and Fatah will not allow themselves to be a minority.

Elections in Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Arabs, Iran Jordan are anachronisms. It is a medieval kind of culture in modern times.

Simple observation of current events and the last 50 years.

A key problem is Iran maintaining a policy of the destruction of Israel. They fund the militant sarnies,

Israelis not going away. Jordan and Israel made peace. Normalization was stating with Arabs before the war.

The only thing tat works in the region is force. Iran has to be deterred for lasting peace.

 

[Gospel]

“Shithole.”

Meanwhile, urban centers, written law, astronomy, mathematics, trade networks, and libraries all originated in that same stretch of land. But sure, centuries of colonial borders, coups, and foreign interference have nothing to do with it.

Oh and, while the “modern state” you’re praising (really just a synonym for Western-style civilization) was stumbling through its Dark Ages, it was Arab and Persian scholars who preserved and expanded the works of Greece and Rome. Surely something happened over time with these same people to get us here, and it can’t only be about them.

EDIT: And by “these same people,” I include the Jewish communities that were part of that same civilizational fabric. Their early laws, ethics, and scholarship shaped the region too.

 

[TSwizzle]

“Shithole.”

Yeah, it is a shithole.

Meanwhile, urban centers, written law, astronomy, mathematics, trade networks, and libraries all originated in that same stretch of land. But sure, centuries of colonial borders, coups, and foreign interference have nothing to do with it.

Oh and, while the “modern state” you’re praising (really just a synonym for Western-style civilization) was stumbling through its Dark Ages, it was Arab and Persian scholars who preserved and expanded the works of Greece and Rome. Surely something happened over time with these same people to get us here, and it can’t only be about them.

Islam happened.

 

[Gospel]

Islam happened.

The 19th–20th-century European imperial policies are what turned a historically advanced, interconnected region into the fragmented map you see today, and your grand historical takeaway is just “Islam happened.” Brilliant. Funny how no one mentions that what we now call “radical Islam” largely took shape after European colonization, coups, and proxy wars tore apart the same societies that once led the world in science and philosophy.

Colonize people, erase their history, sell them weapons, then act shocked when “Islam happens.” I guess "Islam happens" is just a creative way of naming the harvest of an empire’s planting.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“Shithole.”

Yeah, it is a shithole.

Meanwhile, urban centers, written law, astronomy, mathematics, trade networks, and libraries all originated in that same stretch of land. But sure, centuries of colonial borders, coups, and foreign interference have nothing to do with it.

Oh and, while the “modern state” you’re praising (really just a synonym for Western-style civilization) was stumbling through its Dark Ages, it was Arab and Persian scholars who preserved and expanded the works of Greece and Rome. Surely something happened over time with these same people to get us here, and it can’t only be about them.

Islam happened.

Actually in areas like Baghdad, where diversity was a thing, math, science flourished. Meanwhile, not much happening in Europe. It'd take the fall of Constantinople for kick start thinking again in Christian Europe.

 

[TSwizzle]

Islam happened.

The 19th–20th-century European imperial policies are what turned a historically advanced, interconnected region into the fragmented map you see today, and your grand historical takeaway is just “Islam happened.” Brilliant. Funny how no one mentions that what we now call “radical Islam”

There is no such thing as “radical islam” it’s just islam.

largely took shape after European colonization, coups, and proxy wars tore apart the same societies that once led the world in science and philosophy.

Colonize people, erase their history, sell them weapons, then act shocked when “Islam happens.” I guess "Islam happens" is just a creative way of naming the harvest of an empire’s planting.

Sure, Jan.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Its a good day. The last hostages that are still alive have been returned.

That's something to celebrate

To be grateful for. Celebrate... seems a little callous of the losses of those who were hostages (and their families) for over two years.

Why? Why would celebrating the survivors coming home be callous? I can't follow your logic.

Because the happiness of those in Israel, particularly of the families, is tainted with the bitter reality that the former hostages were subjected to an unfathomable amount of psychological harm. They were only released, their healing is going to take the rest of their lives. Some may never heal.

 

[TSwizzle]

“Shithole.”

Yeah, it is a shithole.

Meanwhile, urban centers, written law, astronomy, mathematics, trade networks, and libraries all originated in that same stretch of land. But sure, centuries of colonial borders, coups, and foreign interference have nothing to do with it.

Oh and, while the “modern state” you’re praising (really just a synonym for Western-style civilization) was stumbling through its Dark Ages, it was Arab and Persian scholars who preserved and expanded the works of Greece and Rome. Surely something happened over time with these same people to get us here, and it can’t only be about them.

Islam happened.

Actually in areas like Baghdad, where diversity was a thing, math, science flourished.

Despite islam, not because of islam.

 

[steve_bank]

I am well aware of the history of science and math. Before the rise of Europe Persia and Arabia were the places to be for science.

Newton used Persian astronomical data.

That is not the issue. The issue is how things are right now. Cultural sensitivity and political correctness is not going to solve the problems.

The policy of Iran is the destruction of Israel. Lebanon is effectively under militray occupation funded by Iran.

Iran has long been working to topple the Saudi monarchy, funding the chaos and violence in Yemen. All a centuries old religious and racial conflict.

Yemen, Sudan, Ethiopian factions do not want to compromise.,

In the 90s I took a night class from an immigrant Iranian. In a conversation I inadvertently refereed to him as Arab. He briefly got angry telling me he was Persian not Arab.

If you want peace Iran has to be forced to stop funding Hamas ad others. That could threaten the Iranian theocracy. The Republican Guard doe not appear to be under government control, anther problem for peace.

If the Iranian government falls who knows what will happen. That is why Israel is so paranoid of Iran going nuclear.

Back sways Jordan annexed the West Bank leading to a civil war with Palestinians for control of Jordan,. I think that is where Yasar Arafat made his entrance.

The region is a mess. Israel is only one part of it.

 

[Politesse]

The region is a shithole. There is no other way to put it.

Arabs are aginst each oter, and Arabs are against Parisians. Iran cosiderrs Saudi ASrabia ilgetmate Islam and wnats to topple the monarchy. There were assassination attempts in the ast.

WE got rid of Hussein and factions fought each other.

We got rid of Qaddafi and Libya is fractured.

Lebanon was once a vacation detonation, until a factional civil war having nothing to do with Israel Now it is a shithole occupied with militants armed by Iran. The government is not in control.

In the midst of all that tiny Israel built itself up into a modern state. Whatever issues I have with Israel that is a kind of a miracle.

As I said, I try and look at both sides,

They have had elections but Hamas and Fatah will not allow themselves to be a minority.

Elections in Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Arabs, Iran Jordan are anachronisms. It is a medieval kind of culture in modern times.

Simple observation of current events and the last 50 years.

A key problem is Iran maintaining a policy of the destruction of Israel. They fund the militant sarnies,

Israelis not going away. Jordan and Israel made peace. Normalization was stating with Arabs before the war.

The only thing tat works in the region is force. Iran has to be deterred for lasting peace.

"That region is a shithole", says man whose own country routinely starts shit in that region just to flex their power and turn a buck.