California Doing California Things

[bilby]

Anyway, it is telling that the likes of Politesse and bilby have not offered any articles about this whose slant they like.

It could tell you that bilby really doesn't give a rats arse about this subject.

My interest begins and ends with the correction of your obvious errors of fact and of logic^TM as displayed on this discussion board. What the people of California do is up to them.

Of course, you can't let it go, because "all things race" is your beloved hobbyhorse. ^TM

 

[Elixir]

"all things race" is your beloved hobbyhorse.

That's pretty much the norm in much of the South. Overt racism elicits snickers, but dress it up in whatabouts and specious rationale, and it elicits knowing nods from the elders. 160 years is not nearly enough to get over the fear and loathing - not to mention Northern Aggression.

 

[bilby]

"all things race" is your beloved hobbyhorse.

That's pretty much the norm in much of the South. Overt racism elicits snickers, but dress it up in whatabouts and specious rationale, and it elicits knowing nods from the elders. 160 years is not nearly enough to get over the fear and loathing - not to mention Northern Aggression.

Well it looks pretty damned absurd from where I live, over here in the twenty first century.

 

[Elixir]

Well it looks pretty damned absurd from where I live, over here in the twenty first century.

Doesn't look good from the outside, period. But believe me, them's some good old boys at heart.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Would have been nice if they linked to the text of the actual bill so that we may read for ourselves instead of relying on their Interpretaion. You don’t have to be wrong to be biased. The first word other article is “woke” so I didn’t expect an unbiased article.

"Woke" is a good descriptor of this nonsense. And I do not think the article is biased just because it uses an adjective you dislike.

Nor is it unbiased because it used an adjective that you like. No adjective (especially one with so nebulous a definition) was needed there for unbiased reporting, which is in quite short supply these days.

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t understand starting any sort compensation program without the wherewithal to fund it.

IMO, “woke” is biased descriptor in news reporting.

 

[Politesse]

I don’t understand starting any sort compensation program without the wherewithal to fund it.

IMO, “woke” is biased descriptor in news reporting.

They created a fund that could be used for the purpose, outside of the civic budget. That way, should those involved somehow raise the funds for the project, the city can still claim credit for "sponsoring" the initiative, but they aren't on the hook for it if the program is never successful, because they never promised to fund anything, only to "support" it in a hand waving sort of way.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I don’t understand starting any sort compensation program without the wherewithal to fund it.

Brownie points.

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t understand starting any sort compensation program without the wherewithal to fund it.

IMO, “woke” is biased descriptor in news reporting.

They created a fund that could be used for the purpose, outside of the civic budget. That way, should those involved somehow raise the funds for the project, the city can still claim credit for "sponsoring" the initiative, but they aren't on the hook for it if the program is never successful, because they never promised to fund anything, only to "support" it in a hand waving sort of way.

Creating a fund in order to take credit in the improbable event it wii get funded is either incredibly gutless or incredibly inane, imho.

 

[Politesse]

I don’t understand starting any sort compensation program without the wherewithal to fund it.

IMO, “woke” is biased descriptor in news reporting.

They created a fund that could be used for the purpose, outside of the civic budget. That way, should those involved somehow raise the funds for the project, the city can still claim credit for "sponsoring" the initiative, but they aren't on the hook for it if the program is never successful, because they never promised to fund anything, only to "support" it in a hand waving sort of way.

Creating a fund in order to take credit in the improbable event it wii get funded is either incredibly gutless or incredibly inane, imho.

Welcome to American politics.

 

[thebeave]

Interesting how all conservative news sources either imply or outright falsely state that the bill is some sort of universal award for being Black, as opposed to having been victim to very specific, expensive, and notorious crimes perpetrated by the city.

One problem I have with this, is the so called "reparations" are being limited, apparently, to a specifc race, when many races have suffered at the hands of SF city policies and actions over the years. Most notably, the Chinese were treated horribly starting during the Gold Rush days and going well beyond. Arguably, more harm was perpetrated against them than Blacks in SF. IIRC, The Chinese did get an apology from the city a few years ago for past injustices, IIRC, but BFD. How are they even legally able to sign this into law, given it blatantly racially discriminates?

 

[Politesse]

Interesting how all conservative news sources either imply or outright falsely state that the bill is some sort of universal award for being Black, as opposed to having been victim to very specific, expensive, and notorious crimes perpetrated by the city.

One problem I have with this, is the so called "reparations" are being limited, apparently, to a specifc race, when many races have suffered at the hands of SF city policies and actions over the years. Most notably, the Chinese were treated horribly starting during the Gold Rush days and going well beyond. Arguably, more harm was perpetrated against them than Blacks in SF. IIRC, The Chinese did get an apology from the city a few years ago for past injustices, IIRC, but BFD. How are they even legally able to sign this into law, given it blatantly racially discriminates?

What are you recommending be done?

 

[Elixir]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

 

[Politesse]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

It bothers me when conservatives, hearing about the SF reparations proposal, launch with a misunderstanding that the reparations are for slavery, and then double down on their error by claiming that there was never slavery in the state, when there absolutely was. In many different forms applied to many different people over many diverse empires and centuries. If someone wants to launch a bill to repair the damage of those policies, I'm all for it, but if the recommendation is for complete inaction on all fronts, that I cannot get behind. If a government doesn't govern, what's the point of it?

 

[thebeave]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

So, SF is already $1 billion in the hole for the next couple of years in its latest budget. Do you think they should borrow money to pay repartations and put the city in an even bigger hole going forward, thereby screwing over else in the city?

 

[thebeave]

Interesting how all conservative news sources either imply or outright falsely state that the bill is some sort of universal award for being Black, as opposed to having been victim to very specific, expensive, and notorious crimes perpetrated by the city.

One problem I have with this, is the so called "reparations" are being limited, apparently, to a specifc race, when many races have suffered at the hands of SF city policies and actions over the years. Most notably, the Chinese were treated horribly starting during the Gold Rush days and going well beyond. Arguably, more harm was perpetrated against them than Blacks in SF. IIRC, The Chinese did get an apology from the city a few years ago for past injustices, IIRC, but BFD. How are they even legally able to sign this into law, given it blatantly racially discriminates?

What are you recommending be done?

I got nuthin'.

 

[thebeave]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

It bothers me when conservatives, hearing about the SF reparations proposal, launch with a misunderstanding that the reparations are for slavery, and then double down on their error by claiming that there was never slavery in the state, when there absolutely was. In many different forms applied to many different people over many diverse empires and centuries. If someone wants to launch a bill to repair the damage of those policies, I'm all for it, but if the recommendation is for complete inaction on all fronts, that I cannot get behind. If a government doesn't govern, what's the point of it?

Well, one of the criteria for reparations eligibility is showing you had ancestors who were slaves (most likely they weren't California based slaves). Maybe that's why some people think it might have something to do with slavery?

Maybe you can enlighten us all about all the slavery against Blacks in California. I know about your position on prison slave labor. Is there more?

 

[TV and credit cards]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

So, SF is already $1 billion in the hole for the next couple of years in its latest budget. Do you think they should borrow money to pay repartations and put the city in an even bigger hole going forward, thereby screwing over else in the city?

Acknowledgement, an apology, and laws that ensure an even playing field. And maybe a useless memorial. Veterans get lots of useless memorials in lieu of anything substantive. No reason everyone else shouldn't get one too.

 

[Politesse]

What are you recommending be done?

Apparently the only "just" remedy is to do nothing.
You can't offer black people reparations for centuries of enslavement if you're going to stiff the yellow people who suffered decades of dying in mines!
Spaniards wiped out entire cultures in central and South America - how could they possibly pay for THAT? (I assume they already spent the billions in gold they stole.)
Heinous things have been done by almost every population on the planet that has endured for multiple generations, and none of their progeny are going to step up and offer to make good for their ancestors' mischief.
It's noble and admirable that Americans (with the help of a lot of people they have abused) have attained a level of affluence that lets them ponder shit like "reparations", but let's face it:
AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

It bothers me when conservatives, hearing about the SF reparations proposal, launch with a misunderstanding that the reparations are for slavery, and then double down on their error by claiming that there was never slavery in the state, when there absolutely was. In many different forms applied to many different people over many diverse empires and centuries. If someone wants to launch a bill to repair the damage of those policies, I'm all for it, but if the recommendation is for complete inaction on all fronts, that I cannot get behind. If a government doesn't govern, what's the point of it?

Well, one of the criteria for reparations eligibility is showing you had ancestors who were slaves (most likely they weren't California based slaves). Maybe that's why some people think it might have something to do with slavery?

Maybe you can enlighten us all about all the slavery against Blacks in California. I know about your position on prison slave labor. Is there more?

The main targets of legal slavery in California were, in all eras, Native Californians. But it was legal to own a Black slave in California until 1865, you just couldn't buy or sell one. As in much of the country, even in the South. The 1850 Compromise ensured we would always be a Free State on paper, but there was a whole constellation of exceptions, and we were among the last states to close all the gaps.

And yes, we're a major node for the prison system, with more inmates than any other state aside from Texas, though outright forced free labor is not permitted here.

And then there's illegal slavery (aka "human trafficking" for those who demand we should be extra polite to slavers), which is a problem whose scope is somewhere between "rampant" and "endemic". It's not permitted, but it would be hard to make the case that we are doing enough to prevent it, when some of our legislators themselves pocket millions from illegal migrant labor worked by people who have little recourse if an employer refuses to pay them for the season or brings their family here under what are effectively terms of indenture, and most of our leaders apparently attend Manhattan sex slave parties with the president.

 

[Derec]

The main targets of legal slavery in California were, in all eras, Native Californians. But it was legal to own a Black slave in California until 1865, you just couldn't buy or sell one. As in much of the country, even in the South. The 1850 Compromise ensured we would always be a Free State on paper, but there was a whole constellation of exceptions, and we were among the last states to close all the gaps.

Even so, that was a long time ago (> 160 years) and I do not see why it should entitle descendants to riches like $5M payment plus all the other goodies the San Francisco Grifting Commission has demanded.

And yes, we're a major node for the prison system, with more inmates than any other state aside from Texas, though outright forced free labor is not permitted here.

California is also the state with more people than any other state aside from Texas, so duh! And do really you think criminals who serve, or are serving, or are descendants from those who had served time in prison get "reparations"? Or only the black ones?

And then there's illegal slavery (aka "human trafficking" for those who demand we should be extra polite to slavers),

Well, illegal slavery is illegal, and victims should get compensation - from the perps, not the government. And it certainly should not be based on race. And you also have to be careful about the definition. The sex work prohibitionists have coopted the term "human trafficking" to refer to consensual sex work as well.

which is a problem whose scope is somewhere between "rampant" and "endemic".

I would say "often exaggerated".

It's not permitted, but it would be hard to make the case that we are doing enough to prevent it, when some of our legislators themselves pocket millions from illegal migrant labor worked by people who have little recourse if an employer refuses to pay them for the season or brings their family here under what are effectively terms of indenture,

Illegals should not be here to begin with.

and most of our leaders apparently attend Manhattan sex slave parties with the president.

[citation needed]