Merged Greenland is part of NATO via Denmark

[Shadowy Man]

Has there been any news reporting of anyone in the military refusing an order yet? I know in DoJ some lawyers have either quit or risked firing by refusing to investigate or indict but any news from DoD?

Ignoring orders isn't particularly common. However, invading Greenland would also be particularly uncommon.

Apparently so is firing upon shipwrecked people. In fact, I am told this is the literal textbook example of an illegal order. Did anyone refuse that order?

We are on uncharted waters right now. I have no idea how that would unfold. I'm not hopeful or unhopeful. I would presume the Chiefs of Staff, if anyone, would step in the way. If this has to trickle down to the soldier, we are probably done as a Representative Republic.

We will see I guess.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Has there been any news reporting of anyone in the military refusing an order yet? I know in DoJ some lawyers have either quit or risked firing by refusing to investigate or indict but any news from DoD?

Ignoring orders isn't particularly common. However, invading Greenland would also be particularly uncommon.

Apparently so is firing upon shipwrecked people. In fact, I am told this is the literal textbook example of an illegal order. Did anyone refuse that order?

One can justify the shipwrecked people by dehumanizing them as drug runners. They are just finishing the job. Also, there is the "if we're caught" aspect. There is no clandestine takeover of Greenland that the world doesn't take notice of.

Greenland is NATO protected territory. We aren't hearing the Russian cries of Nazis in Ukraine with Greenland. We aren't at war with the people in Greenland. We don't hate the people in Greenland. We have no qualms with the people in Greenland. Up to January 20, 2025, we had no idea we'd be thinking of ever invading Greenland. I'm sure the military has plans drawn up for such an event, likely in response to an aggressive move by others, however, it is likely in the cabinet labeled "Academic Exercises only".

We are on uncharted waters right now. I have no idea how that would unfold. I'm not hopeful or unhopeful. I would presume the Chiefs of Staff, if anyone, would step in the way. If this has to trickle down to the soldier, we are probably done as a Representative Republic.

We will see I guess.

I hope not. I don't want to see. I (and I presume we all) want this ridiculous nonsense to end!

 

[Shadowy Man]

Do you suppose any military will reject orders to invade Minnesota?

 

[Shadowy Man]

We will see I guess.

I hope not. I don't want to see. I (and I presume we all) want this ridiculous nonsense to end!

It’s possible that the only way to really learn the lesson of electing Trump is to fully suffer all of its consequences. Unfortunately.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Has there been any news reporting of anyone in the military refusing an order yet? I know in DoJ some lawyers have either quit or risked firing by refusing to investigate or indict but any news from DoD?

Ignoring orders isn't particularly common. However, invading Greenland would also be particularly uncommon.

Apparently so is firing upon shipwrecked people. In fact, I am told this is the literal textbook example of an illegal order. Did anyone refuse that order?

We are on uncharted waters right now. I have no idea how that would unfold. I'm not hopeful or unhopeful. I would presume the Chiefs of Staff, if anyone, would step in the way. If this has to trickle down to the soldier, we are probably done as a Representative Republic.

We will see I guess.

Military legal officers, JAG will advise commanding officers on the validity of an order. If they tell the CO he’s good to go, it gets increasingly difficult for anyone down chain to refuse.

 

[DrZoidberg]

US must be well informed about EU critters phone conversations among themselves. So EU will not go against US.
Some people in Deep State are behind all of this, not just the Orange.
But I wish Denmark does all of that.

One need not eaves drop on telephone conversations to understand treaties and the text of alliance agreements. If Trump attacks Greenland then Nato's Article 5 kicks in.

Of course I wouldn't expect YOU to understand the concept of a country being expected to uphold their signed written agreements.

I think Trump is testing whether or not NATO has any resolve. It's clear that Trump has no respect for the EU or NATO. And there's nothing the European navies have that can stop USA. Trump knows it and Denmark knows it. If there's a fight it'll be the kind of fight Putin hoped Russia would have in Ukraine, but didn't. The biggest price will be that USA will be a pariah state and joins the Axis of Evil countries. But Trump may not care about that.

If there's a land war on European soil the European countries will most likely win against USA. But in the arctic... nope. Not a chance.

Land war in Europe? The US military isn't set up for a land war in Europe. It'd take a while to even mobilize the fight. And last time we did, the coastal areas were on the same side.

The US easily can take Greenland. But I imagine it'll be a scorched Earth maneuver. It'd be costly, deploying troops to occupy a small area isn't cheap, even if there is no violence. Losing health care will make the locals angry, something would happen. And in Congress, there would be a need to authorize spending for the occupation. That won't happen in the Senate. It'll be filibustered to the ground.

Trade relations will evaporate, Europe will turn to China. It'll isolate the US, which is exactly what Russia would love. Of course, if Europe turns to China, that isn't exactly in Russia's favor either, but unlike China, Russia doesn't have much of a forward focus. It is the only nation that looks to the future in the past.

Finally, just because the US military takes Greenland doesn't mean the US has Greenland. International law would get really weird if the part of the Government doesn't recognize the US owns Greenland.

I think it'll change things more radically than that. The rule of law and respecting international treaties would go away. The world would decend into world war again. It'll be a time machine back to the extremely unstable early 20'th century.

When the wars are over we'll see a new world order. Its anyones guess how that will look. But I think Europe has more fight in it than we're now given credit for. Its going to be a long and hard fight

I think it becomes so volatile, it'd actually be impossible to predict. Economic impacts would likely have unanticipated consequences, leading to strange bed fellows.

But it goes much more internal before we reach those points. The US military would have to invade Greenland first, as Greenland isn't trading health care for one time stipend. In order for the world order to collapse, the US's internal order needs to collapse. I'm uncertain about what the rule of law is and whether being ordered to aggressively occupy friendly territory being considered illegal. Does the military refuse to carry out the order? The US already has an agreement with Denmark to put bases ANYWHERE on the island, as long as it is done diplomatically. Do the higher ups say no, this isn't needed, this isn't legal. We could get exactly what we want without landing a single pair of feet on the island.

I have no idea how that goes down, if the military thinks twice at all or Trump ends up resigning because the GOP can't risk it anymore after he fires the entire Chiefs of Staff and Hegseth tries to run it all himself, of the myriad of possibilites.

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland? Why wasn't all US bases in Europe closed and the troops shipped home? You can't go around and threaten allies willy nilly. I understand that Europe wants US troops in Europe in case Russia attacks. But Trump has already communicated that he can't be trusted in this regard.

Europe/NATO needs to signal that USA can't behave like this diplomatically. Trumps statements on Greenland are completely unacceptable. I think.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Has there been any news reporting of anyone in the military refusing an order yet? I know in DoJ some lawyers have either quit or risked firing by refusing to investigate or indict but any news from DoD?

Ignoring orders isn't particularly common. However, invading Greenland would also be particularly uncommon.

We are on uncharted waters right now. I have no idea how that would unfold. I'm not hopeful or unhopeful. I would presume the Chiefs of Staff, if anyone, would step in the way. If this has to trickle down to the soldier, we are probably done as a Representative Republic.

There's famous stories of commanders creatively disobeying, so that those higher ups can save face. There's a funny story where Nelson, at the battle of Copenhagen gets told by flags to retreat. In order to see the flags better he puts his spyglass up to his blind eye and proclaims "What a shame I can't see the flags". What Nelson knew that his admiral didn't was that the Danish fleet was falling apart right in front of him. So that ended well for Nelson.

There's another one with Nelson where he orders captain Pellow to retreat at S:t Vincent, where Pellew's ship is being shot to shit. Pellow ignores it because he's seen an opening in the Spanish line, and they wipe the floor with the Spanish.

In both of these cases the captains got promoted precisely for disobeying orders. In the second case Nelson afterwards told Pellow he was hoping Pellow would disobey. He only gave him the order to retreat because it was official navy policy after a ship had taken such heavy losses. Because Nelson too could see the opening in the Spanish line.

 

[ZiprHead]

US must be well informed about EU critters phone conversations among themselves. So EU will not go against US.
Some people in Deep State are behind all of this, not just the Orange.
But I wish Denmark does all of that.

One need not eaves drop on telephone conversations to understand treaties and the text of alliance agreements. If Trump attacks Greenland then Nato's Article 5 kicks in.

Of course I wouldn't expect YOU to understand the concept of a country being expected to uphold their signed written agreements.

I think Trump is testing whether or not NATO has any resolve. It's clear that Trump has no respect for the EU or NATO. And there's nothing the European navies have that can stop USA. Trump knows it and Denmark knows it. If there's a fight it'll be the kind of fight Putin hoped Russia would have in Ukraine, but didn't. The biggest price will be that USA will be a pariah state and joins the Axis of Evil countries. But Trump may not care about that.

If there's a land war on European soil the European countries will most likely win against USA. But in the arctic... nope. Not a chance.

Land war in Europe? The US military isn't set up for a land war in Europe. It'd take a while to even mobilize the fight. And last time we did, the coastal areas were on the same side.

The US easily can take Greenland. But I imagine it'll be a scorched Earth maneuver. It'd be costly, deploying troops to occupy a small area isn't cheap, even if there is no violence. Losing health care will make the locals angry, something would happen. And in Congress, there would be a need to authorize spending for the occupation. That won't happen in the Senate. It'll be filibustered to the ground.

Trade relations will evaporate, Europe will turn to China. It'll isolate the US, which is exactly what Russia would love. Of course, if Europe turns to China, that isn't exactly in Russia's favor either, but unlike China, Russia doesn't have much of a forward focus. It is the only nation that looks to the future in the past.

Finally, just because the US military takes Greenland doesn't mean the US has Greenland. International law would get really weird if the part of the Government doesn't recognize the US owns Greenland.

I think it'll change things more radically than that. The rule of law and respecting international treaties would go away. The world would decend into world war again. It'll be a time machine back to the extremely unstable early 20'th century.

When the wars are over we'll see a new world order. Its anyones guess how that will look. But I think Europe has more fight in it than we're now given credit for. Its going to be a long and hard fight

I think it becomes so volatile, it'd actually be impossible to predict. Economic impacts would likely have unanticipated consequences, leading to strange bed fellows.

But it goes much more internal before we reach those points. The US military would have to invade Greenland first, as Greenland isn't trading health care for one time stipend. In order for the world order to collapse, the US's internal order needs to collapse. I'm uncertain about what the rule of law is and whether being ordered to aggressively occupy friendly territory being considered illegal. Does the military refuse to carry out the order? The US already has an agreement with Denmark to put bases ANYWHERE on the island, as long as it is done diplomatically. Do the higher ups say no, this isn't needed, this isn't legal. We could get exactly what we want without landing a single pair of feet on the island.

I have no idea how that goes down, if the military thinks twice at all or Trump ends up resigning because the GOP can't risk it anymore after he fires the entire Chiefs of Staff and Hegseth tries to run it all himself, of the myriad of possibilites.

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland? Why wasn't all US bases in Europe closed and the troops shipped home? You can't go around and threaten allies willy nilly. I understand that Europe wants US troops in Europe in case Russia attacks. But Trump has already communicated that he can't be trusted in this regard.

Europe/NATO needs to signal that USA can't behave like this diplomatically. Trumps statements on Greenland are completely unacceptable. I think.

They don't need boots on the ground to hurt the US. Just call in the bond debt. It would destroy our economy.

 

[Gospel]

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland? Why wasn't all US bases in Europe closed and the troops shipped home? You can't go around and threaten allies willy nilly. I understand that Europe wants US troops in Europe in case Russia attacks. But Trump has already communicated that he can't be trusted in this regard.

Europe/NATO needs to signal that USA can't behave like this diplomatically. Trumps statements on Greenland are completely unacceptable. I think.

This would be a strong opening post for a thread titled ‘How should NATO respond to a potential (or likely) U.S. invasion of Greenland?’”

 

[Elixir]

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland?

Really? What part of "THAT'S WHAT PUTIN ORDERED HIM TO DO, ON PENALTY OF RELEASING THE PEE TAPES" don't you understand?
Giving a visible excuse for gratuitous violence, The Felon will pounce on it. That's exactly his ideal scenario.
Trump knows this will destroy NATO, give Putin a green light to do whatever the fuck he wants in Ukraine, and cede Taiwan and the African continent to China, and put his fat little lover in N Korea at ease. The whole world will pay the price to protect President Tinyhands from his own scurrilous misdeeds.
Destroying NATO will keep him out of prison; the worst case scenario for doing this would be if he and Malaria are forced to hole up in Pootey's Black Sea palace, can't return to Mag-a-Lardo, and are forced to live a life of luxurious ease but away from the men, women, people, cameras and TVs that dominate his tiny brain. That's some painful shit for a psycho like him, BUT - The worst case if he DOESN'T do what Putin orders, is he rots away in federal prison. Not a hard choice.
Do you understand now?

 

[barbos]

Denmark wants F16s they gave to Ukraine ...... back

 

[thebeave]

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland?

Really? What part of "THAT'S WHAT PUTIN ORDERED HIM TO DO, ON PENALTY OF RELEASING THE PEE TAPES" don't you understand?
Giving a visible excuse for gratuitous violence, The Felon will pounce on it. That's exactly his ideal scenario.
Trump knows this will destroy NATO, give Putin a green light to do whatever the fuck he wants in Ukraine, and cede Taiwan and the African continent to China, and put his fat little lover in N Korea at ease. The whole world will pay the price to protect President Tinyhands from his own scurrilous misdeeds.
Destroying NATO will keep him out of prison; the worst case scenario for doing this would be if he and Malaria are forced to hole up in Pootey's Black Sea palace, can't return to Mag-a-Lardo, and are forced to live a life of luxurious ease but away from the men, women, people, cameras and TVs that dominate his tiny brain. That's some painful shit for a psycho like him, BUT - The worst case if he DOESN'T do what Putin orders, is he rots away in federal prison. Not a hard choice.
Do you understand now?

Pee tapes? Really? I'm not sure if this scenario is serious or you have been eating the psychodelic mushrooms growing on your property.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland?

Really? What part of "THAT'S WHAT PUTIN ORDERED HIM TO DO, ON PENALTY OF RELEASING THE PEE TAPES" don't you understand?
Giving a visible excuse for gratuitous violence, The Felon will pounce on it. That's exactly his ideal scenario.
Trump knows this will destroy NATO, give Putin a green light to do whatever the fuck he wants in Ukraine, and cede Taiwan and the African continent to China, and put his fat little lover in N Korea at ease. The whole world will pay the price to protect President Tinyhands from his own scurrilous misdeeds.
Destroying NATO will keep him out of prison; the worst case scenario for doing this would be if he and Malaria are forced to hole up in Pootey's Black Sea palace, can't return to Mag-a-Lardo, and are forced to live a life of luxurious ease but away from the men, women, people, cameras and TVs that dominate his tiny brain. That's some painful shit for a psycho like him, BUT - The worst case if he DOESN'T do what Putin orders, is he rots away in federal prison. Not a hard choice.
Do you understand now?

Pee tapes? Really? I'm not sure if this scenario is serious or you have been eating the psychodelic mushrooms growing on your property.

The idea of Trump fucking over NATO because he is compromised with Russia (economic or whatever else) verses he just does wants to end NATO because he's stupid... neither seems particularly good for the US.

Trump's actions, when involving Russia in some manner, have almost exclusively been to the benefit of Russia. Whether this is happenstance or something deeper, it really can't be denied as looking suspicious.

 

[barbos]

Meanwhile Merz wants to talk to ..... Putin. Macron folded before Merz, Meloni has never been hot on war with Russia.
Carny is meeting with Xi.
They are also.... ditching Trump.
Looks like EU decided to keep Greenland.

 

[barbos]

The idea of Trump fucking over NATO because he is compromised with Russia (economic or whatever else) verses he just does

For fuck's sake, let it go. Epstein could not compromise Trump and you want some mythical pee tape to compromise him?

 

[crazyfingers]

So the autopsy report is out. Good was alive for a period of time after she was shot. Denying her medical care is outrageous.

Gota link?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The idea of Trump fucking over NATO because he is compromised with Russia (economic or whatever else) verses he just does

For fuck's sake, let it go. Epstein could not compromise Trump and you want some mythical pee tape to compromise him?

I didn't bring that up. You did. As I said, Trump's actions relating to Russia has almost all benefited Russia, not the US.

 

[Elixir]

The idea of Trump fucking over NATO because he is compromised with Russia (economic or whatever else) verses he just does wants to end NATO because he's stupid... neither seems particularly good for the US.

The idea that Trump gives a flying fuck about the US is delusional. He cares about Donald Trump, and ONLY about Donald Trump.

Trump's actions, when involving Russia in some manner, have almost exclusively been to the benefit of Russia. Whether this is happenstance or something deeper, it really can't be denied as looking suspicious.

Happenstance? Happenstance that happens and happens and happens unremittingly is NOT “happenstance”. C’mon Jimmy, you’re a very bright and well reasoned person. Go ahead and step out a little.

 

[Elixir]

Pee tapes? Really?

Yes, really. Let “Pee tapes” be a metaphor for WHATEVER it is that makes Donald consistently and unwaveringly behave like he’s on Putin’s leash, if that eases your credulity.

 

[jonatha]

They don't need boots on the ground to hurt the US. Just call in the bond debt. It would destroy our economy

That's not how US bonds work...