Merged Greenland is part of NATO via Denmark

[Axulus]

UK and EU need to impose retaliatory tariffs, boot US from all bases in Europe, and open dialogue for a security alliance with China.

 

[TSwizzle]

UK and EU need to impose retaliatory tariffs, boot US from all bases in Europe, and open dialogue for a security alliance with China.

wtf?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Has there been any news reporting of anyone in the military refusing an order yet?

Would the adverage soljer recognize an illeagle order? The secretary of defense war doesen't know

My understanding from following the news after the strike on the shipwreck is that soldiers are trained in this stuff and that shooting at shipwrecked survivors is LITERALLY the example used in their manuals for an illegal order.

 

[unapologetic]

Me expressing a bunch of hypotheses (which may contradict eachother) is hardly me talking both sides of my mouth.

If you are trying to take all sides, you and I have nothing more to talk about.

 

[Axulus]

US must be well informed about EU critters phone conversations among themselves. So EU will not go against US.
Some people in Deep State are behind all of this, not just the Orange.
But I wish Denmark does all of that.

One need not eaves drop on telephone conversations to understand treaties and the text of alliance agreements. If Trump attacks Greenland then Nato's Article 5 kicks in.

Of course I wouldn't expect YOU to understand the concept of a country being expected to uphold their signed written agreements.

I think Trump is testing whether or not NATO has any resolve. It's clear that Trump has no respect for the EU or NATO. And there's nothing the European navies have that can stop USA. Trump knows it and Denmark knows it. If there's a fight it'll be the kind of fight Putin hoped Russia would have in Ukraine, but didn't. The biggest price will be that USA will be a pariah state and joins the Axis of Evil countries. But Trump may not care about that.

If there's a land war on European soil the European countries will most likely win against USA. But in the arctic... nope. Not a chance.

Land war in Europe? The US military isn't set up for a land war in Europe. It'd take a while to even mobilize the fight. And last time we did, the coastal areas were on the same side.

The US easily can take Greenland. But I imagine it'll be a scorched Earth maneuver. It'd be costly, deploying troops to occupy a small area isn't cheap, even if there is no violence. Losing health care will make the locals angry, something would happen. And in Congress, there would be a need to authorize spending for the occupation. That won't happen in the Senate. It'll be filibustered to the ground.

Trade relations will evaporate, Europe will turn to China. It'll isolate the US, which is exactly what Russia would love. Of course, if Europe turns to China, that isn't exactly in Russia's favor either, but unlike China, Russia doesn't have much of a forward focus. It is the only nation that looks to the future in the past.

Finally, just because the US military takes Greenland doesn't mean the US has Greenland. International law would get really weird if the part of the Government doesn't recognize the US owns Greenland.

I think it'll change things more radically than that. The rule of law and respecting international treaties would go away. The world would decend into world war again. It'll be a time machine back to the extremely unstable early 20'th century.

When the wars are over we'll see a new world order. Its anyones guess how that will look. But I think Europe has more fight in it than we're now given credit for. Its going to be a long and hard fight

I think it becomes so volatile, it'd actually be impossible to predict. Economic impacts would likely have unanticipated consequences, leading to strange bed fellows.

But it goes much more internal before we reach those points. The US military would have to invade Greenland first, as Greenland isn't trading health care for one time stipend. In order for the world order to collapse, the US's internal order needs to collapse. I'm uncertain about what the rule of law is and whether being ordered to aggressively occupy friendly territory being considered illegal. Does the military refuse to carry out the order? The US already has an agreement with Denmark to put bases ANYWHERE on the island, as long as it is done diplomatically. Do the higher ups say no, this isn't needed, this isn't legal. We could get exactly what we want without landing a single pair of feet on the island.

I have no idea how that goes down, if the military thinks twice at all or Trump ends up resigning because the GOP can't risk it anymore after he fires the entire Chiefs of Staff and Hegseth tries to run it all himself, of the myriad of possibilites.

What I don't understand is the moment Trump threatened Denmark militarily, why wasn't USA kicked out of Greenland? Why wasn't all US bases in Europe closed and the troops shipped home? You can't go around and threaten allies willy nilly. I understand that Europe wants US troops in Europe in case Russia attacks. But Trump has already communicated that he can't be trusted in this regard.

Europe/NATO needs to signal that USA can't behave like this diplomatically. Trumps statements on Greenland are completely unacceptable. I think.

I think I figured it out. The US troops in Europe are there to protect Europe from Russia. Its free soldiers. It'd just be dumb to kick them out. Especially now when there's an ongoing war in Europe

They are there to obey the orders of the commander in chief (Trump), which must be followed unless clearly illegal. Protecting Europe is not a given, and is in fact contradictory to recent evidence.

 

[TSwizzle]

I think I figured it out. The US troops in Europe are there to protect Europe from Russia. Its free soldiers. It'd just be dumb to kick them out. Especially now when there's an ongoing war in Europe

I think post WWII, US troops were there as a deterrent to USSR getting any ideas about steam rolling further into Europe. I’m not sure Russia has the capability to mount a serious military operation on Europe just now but as an aging and decrepit Europe increasingly weakens, it’s on the cards something will happen.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I think Greenland should just play the same game.

Tell Americans they will pay everyone in America with free healthcare if we join the United States of Greenland.

 

[barbos]

Does Greenland alone have a right to sell itself?

 

[barbos]

I think Greenland should just play the same game.

Tell Americans they will pay everyone in America with free healthcare if we join the United States of Greenland.

If I was running US I would agree to that arrangement. in the end I would end up running occupying both Greenland and Denmark.

But seriously, Europe should do nothing and wait 3 years, maybe less.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think I figured it out. The US troops in Europe are there to protect Europe from Russia. Its free soldiers. It'd just be dumb to kick them out. Especially now when there's an ongoing war in Europe

I think post WWII, US troops were there as a deterrent to USSR getting any ideas about steam rolling further into Europe. I’m not sure Russia has the capability to mount a serious military operation on Europe just now but as an aging and decrepit Europe increasingly weakens, it’s on the cards something will happen.

Well. Things change fast in international politics. This is what France said about Germany in 1938 and downsized their army significantly.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think Greenland should just play the same game.

Tell Americans they will pay everyone in America with free healthcare if we join the United States of Greenland.

They can pay for it with the assets seized from Donald Trump

 

[DrZoidberg]

There is a silver lining. Europe has never before in its blood soaked history, been as unified as this. This latest upswell of European patriotism is making Victor Orban less secure, as the Hungarians want to be a part of this new family

Trump tariff threat over Greenland 'unacceptable', European leaders say

The US president says several European allies opposed to his plans to buy Greenland will face 10% tariffs from February.

www.bbc.com

 

[aupmanyav]

Oh, the spine-less European governments!
Trade with China, they can pay flat USD 200,000 to every Greenlander. That will cost them some USD 11 billion. They can afford it.
Trade with India, we will give flat USD 300,000 to every Greenlander. That will cost us some USD 17 billion. We can afford it.
We have recently made a 6 submarine deal with Germany for USD 8 billion and 114 Rafale deal with France for for USD 39 billion.

Trump's officials have reportedly discussed sending payments to Greenlanders ranging from $10,000 to $100,000 per person.
What US is offering to Greenlanders is pittance, US wants to cheat Greenlanders, but that is what Trump is.

 

[TV and credit cards]

There is a silver lining. Europe has never before in its blood soaked history, been as unified as this. This latest upswell of European patriotism is making Victor Orban less secure, as the Hungarians want to be a part of this new family

Trump tariff threat over Greenland 'unacceptable', European leaders say

The US president says several European allies opposed to his plans to buy Greenland will face 10% tariffs from February.

www.bbc.com

This is readily apparent. No one man has done more to unify Europe since Vladimir Putin. But at what cost? European unity will be defined by military unity and build up. Where will this money come from, the more generous social programs of some European nations? Let's see how this upswell holds up then. Real patriotism starts when there is skin in the game.
I can see Trump's point. Denmark says, sure go ahead and put all the US forces on Greenland you want. Trump is saying, this isn't happening gratis anymore.

 

[barbos]

This is readily apparent. No one man has done more to unify Europe since Vladimir Putin.

Bullshit on both counts. Putin has shown that Europe is not united at all, and Trump did the same, so far at least.

 

[barbos]

United Europe would have Steven Miller kidnapped tried and executed already.
Instead we have Rutte avoiding saying anything.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Will the idiot scumbag step back from starting a war with NATO? I'm not sure he will.

WHY SHOULD HE?
If anything in America returns to “normal” he goes to jail and/ or is put to death.
Attacking a NATO country, obligating the rest of NATO to fight against us and putting us on the side of Putin (a fellow perv), invoking the insurrection act and canceling the midterms, is OBVIOUSLY the way to stay out of jail.
He will make however big a shitstorm it takes, for people to say “Jeffrey WHO?” and forget about elections and incarcerating the fraudster, because there will be more urgent emergency conditions that he is currently fabricating.

A real insurrection, or a low level civil war, both possible, given his incitement, both that he is sure to win, would save his sorry ass for the rest of his life.

Yes, and…?
Doesn’t matter. If every protester dug a hole and hid in it and nobody ever engaged the ICE thugs, he would declare THAT to be a “NATIONAL EMERGENCY!!!” and declare martial law. Baby steps of course. First, the insurrection act. Whether or not the ensuing abuse provoked a reaction, martial law will follow in time to prevent the elections this fall.
Predictable as gravity.
Maybe Iran will save us.

I don't get why people keep ignoring Vance. Trump going away isn't going to get rid of Vance, especially if Trump is able to cancel elections, but dies in some way, we'll be still stuck with Vance. And even if you get rid of Vance, there's another Republican in the line of succession who'll carry on the regime. Yes, Vance doesn't have the same charisma. Irrelevant if democracy will be gone.

 

[Elixir]

we'll be still stuck with Vance.

Great. Just as obviously a corrupt fuck, but with all the charisma of trash can.
The MAGA base would rather worship a picture of The Felon than follow that guy.

 

[ZiprHead]

in the end I would end up running occupying both Greenland and Denmark.

Is there anywhere you wouldn't occupy? Doesn't seem like it.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

we'll be still stuck with Vance.

Great. Just as obviously a corrupt fuck, but with all the charisma of trash can.
The MAGA base would rather worship a picture of The Felon than follow that guy.

Already addressed that. If democracy is gone, his charisma doesn't matter whatsoever. He'll just be forced through.