The Cold Blooded Murder Of Renee Good

[zorq]

I found one detail of this rather interesting. Good's partner was shocked that ICE used actual ammunition instead of rubber bullets.

Rubber bullets are used in riot control. Actual police actions use real bullets.

Riot control is a job for actual police.

DHS agents aren't even "actual police." They don't have any power to arrest people. They don't have any power to pull people over for suspected crimes. They don't have any power to demand anyone exit their vehicle unless they have a warrant or reason to believe the person is in the country illegally.

They certainly don't have a right to murder civilians.

 

[Patooka]

Actual police actions use real bullets.

Actual police weren't involved in any part of the incident so I'm not sure what your point is.

EDIT: zorq was far more eloquent than me.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Oh yes if they used real bullets then it must have been an actual, legitimate police situation. Wow. Great logic.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Actual police actions use real bullets.

Actual police weren't involved in any part of the incident so I'm not sure what your point is.

EDIT: zorq was far more eloquent than me.

"Actual police actions" was the phrase, not "actual police". Actual police do engage in crowd control actions with rubber bullets, and actual police do engage in actual police actions with real bullets.

If you're going to quote me, do so accurately.

And zorq made the same mistake, just more eloquently.

 

[Jarhyn]

I don’t have time to address each of your points at this moment but I will ask exactly how it is that you can be ignorant of the fact that a jury found that Trump raped E. Jean Carroll

I am not ignorant of that verdict. That's why I explicitly addressed it when I wrote "civil courts get it wrong a lot because the burden of proof is very low which does not minimize Type I errors."
I stand by my opinion that EJC's claims lack credibility or evidence.

or that it is known that Trump is heavily featured in the Epstein files and that multiple women have come forward to tell of the sexual abuse and assaults they suffered at Trump’s hands when they were still children—too young to get a learner’s permit, too young to have consented even if the sexual contact had been consensual and that in fact at least some of them were threatened with death for their families if they told?

I know there have been accusations, but there hasn't been anything concrete.

García Zárate was found innocent of charges against him by a jury.

Wrong. Courts do not find people "innocent" in the US. He was found "not guilty" on the murder charge by a jury. That was a miscarriage of justice, as there was no doubt that he did it.

This is how the legal system here works: if you are found not guilty, you are released.

Well, not in this case. He was not released after that trial, because he was also found guilty of being a felon in possession of a firearm.

If the Feds had wanted him, surely they knew where to find him. His trial and Aquitaine was well publicized.

Aquitaine? Your most epic misspelling yet!
In any case, you are seriously mixing up the timeline here.
The issue is not him being released after this trial. The issue is that he was released by SF instead of being given back to the Feds, after which he roamed the city and killed Kate Steinle. Her murder could have been prevented had SF not held fast to their "sanctuary" policy.

Who was POTUS at the time? Oh, yeah: Mr. Tough on Immigration himself: Trump.

Actually, it was Obama who was president in 2015 when the release and murder happened. I do not necessarily fault him for this, as it was SF officials who released him. However, I think it was kind of naïve of Obama's ICE officials to think that SF would act in good faith when they requested GZ for a local drug warrant.

Let me ask you point blank: do you support the behavior of SF here? Where a city requested that an illegal be placed in their custody for a local warrant, only to release him and not give him back to ICE?

Are you aware that entering the US without appropriate documentation is not a criminal offense but a civil offense?

Actually, it is a criminal offense:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b)Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1)at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2)twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

From here.

During the 2020 campaign, especially during the Summer 2019 primary debates, there were several Democrats who wanted to decriminalize illegal immigration. They have not prevailed though, but it shows how far left the Democratic Party had moved even since Obama.

Note that Kamala Harris had also raised her hand. She never should have been the 2024 nominee - Trump 2.0 would have been spared us had we had a better candidate.
Biden just looked confused by the question.

So is speeding or running a stop sign.

Depending on the jurisdiction, those may be misdemeanor crimes.

Local authorities are not empowered to deport someone.

No, but they can - and should - honor immigration detainers. Especially when the illegal alien is a felon. And even more especially when he or she was already in federal custody but was placed in your custody on your request.

Do you know why our immigration system is so dysfunctional? Because passing a good immigration reform bill would remove the scary bread and butter issue that makes xenophobes and racists tremble in their tiny little hearts and vote Rethuglican.

There is blame to go on both sides. While that reform bill was far from perfect, Republicans blocked it to have a campaign issue, yes.
At the same time, name-calling people, defaming them as "xenophobes" and "racists" just because they are opposed to illegal and otherwise mass migration is completely uncalled for, and I think that's another reason sufficient number of independents ended up voting for Trump again. After all, MAGA base is maybe 30% of the electorate. He could not have won without Dems alienating millions. After all, Trump got 49.8% of the vote against Kamala, and 46.1% against Hillary. Even when he lost against Biden, he still got 46.8% - far more than just his MAGA base.
Name calling people that disagree with you on an issue is a good way to lose friends and alienate them. You'd think Dems learned something from Hillary's "basket of deplorables" debacle.

I do understand why you don’t find E. Jean Carroll’s accusations credible. You’ve never likely been in that position. But a lot of women have been or similar enough that she sounded very credible. Given the time lapse, there would be little or no physical evidence but she did have the dress with semen and she did call a friend immediately after, who urged her NOT to call the police, given Trump’s wealth and fame. As awful as sexual assault is, the fear of not being believed or of being blamed is almost worse. You cannot imagine.

I will point out that you seem to have different standards for sexual assault depending upon who the victim is and who the accused perpetrator was. An observation.

Yes, my phone is sometimes absolutely evil and completely changes words. It’s already done so twice in this reply ( both correct word choices and spelled correctly). I don’t always catch the changes.

Did you know that one way that ICE can track someone is through an ankle bracelet? According to my sources ( law enforcement, attorneys) anyway. If ICE had wanted him, they could have found him.

There is no doubt that Garcia-Zarate was holding the weapon that killed Kate Steinle but he was found not guilty of murder Abd manslaughter by a jury, neither you nor o were in the courtroom so we cannot know exactly what evidence was presented or how the jury reached their decision. He was found guilty of weapons charges and faced deportation.

The thing that you and many other people fail to acknowledge is that aliens facing deportation still have legal rights in the aid, including to a hearing or trial to determine whether they are to be deported. Everyone on US soil has legal rights.

Crossing the border without legal documentation is not a criminal offense, whatever you may wish. It’s not. Full stop.

I definitely recognize that racists and xenophobes are almost always unwilling to admit to having even a whiff of racism. That does not change the fact that deciding in advance whether someone deserves the same rights as you do based upon their physical appearance/race or perceived race is indeed racism. Those I grew up around just thought they were being realistic. You’d have liked them, I think. Mostly I did as well —I loved and respected my father greatly but I knew he was wrong. Like many white people who grew up very poor, feeling superior to someone was a coping mechanism. You know the song: I Never Picked Cotton? Played on the radio a lot when I was a kid. Very popular in its day.

One thing I recall about living for a stint in Europe is that many racists and xenophobes and other sorts end up blithely ignorant or blind to the xenophobia and it's manifestations in their behavior.

You know, until recently it hadn't dawned on me, and by recently, I mean "yesterday days old", that there's just no perspective that what they are doing IS racism or xenophobia in general for many.

I recall a series from a show, I think it was Stranger Things where the kids told someone that his actions WERE bullying, exactly as they were and then that character changed entirely after that moment.

The thing is, I do think that many people have crossed over into an inability to feign ignorance to it any longer. I think many do not want to look, perhaps cannot bear to look right at the searing sadness of the truth that they have fucked up badly and that work is necessary to stop their fuckups from polluting the future as they do the past.

But I accept at least that people can be blinded as much desire to just not feel so bad, to leave feeling bad as a last rather than near-first resort.

It's just sad to see people defending literal Nazi actions taken by literal Nazis as if it's normal, and even sadder if they are too strategically harmed by misinformation to understand it.

And yes, I mean literally in the correct usage. There's footage of these fucker's Nazi tattoos, of the ICE in Minneapolis.

 

[Toni]

I don’t have time to address each of your points at this moment but I will ask exactly how it is that you can be ignorant of the fact that a jury found that Trump raped E. Jean Carroll

I am not ignorant of that verdict. That's why I explicitly addressed it when I wrote "civil courts get it wrong a lot because the burden of proof is very low which does not minimize Type I errors."
I stand by my opinion that EJC's claims lack credibility or evidence.

or that it is known that Trump is heavily featured in the Epstein files and that multiple women have come forward to tell of the sexual abuse and assaults they suffered at Trump’s hands when they were still children—too young to get a learner’s permit, too young to have consented even if the sexual contact had been consensual and that in fact at least some of them were threatened with death for their families if they told?

I know there have been accusations, but there hasn't been anything concrete.

García Zárate was found innocent of charges against him by a jury.

Wrong. Courts do not find people "innocent" in the US. He was found "not guilty" on the murder charge by a jury. That was a miscarriage of justice, as there was no doubt that he did it.

This is how the legal system here works: if you are found not guilty, you are released.

Well, not in this case. He was not released after that trial, because he was also found guilty of being a felon in possession of a firearm.

If the Feds had wanted him, surely they knew where to find him. His trial and Aquitaine was well publicized.

Aquitaine? Your most epic misspelling yet!
In any case, you are seriously mixing up the timeline here.
The issue is not him being released after this trial. The issue is that he was released by SF instead of being given back to the Feds, after which he roamed the city and killed Kate Steinle. Her murder could have been prevented had SF not held fast to their "sanctuary" policy.

Who was POTUS at the time? Oh, yeah: Mr. Tough on Immigration himself: Trump.

Actually, it was Obama who was president in 2015 when the release and murder happened. I do not necessarily fault him for this, as it was SF officials who released him. However, I think it was kind of naïve of Obama's ICE officials to think that SF would act in good faith when they requested GZ for a local drug warrant.

Let me ask you point blank: do you support the behavior of SF here? Where a city requested that an illegal be placed in their custody for a local warrant, only to release him and not give him back to ICE?

Are you aware that entering the US without appropriate documentation is not a criminal offense but a civil offense?

Actually, it is a criminal offense:

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien

(a)Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b)Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1)at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2)twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

From here.

During the 2020 campaign, especially during the Summer 2019 primary debates, there were several Democrats who wanted to decriminalize illegal immigration. They have not prevailed though, but it shows how far left the Democratic Party had moved even since Obama.

Note that Kamala Harris had also raised her hand. She never should have been the 2024 nominee - Trump 2.0 would have been spared us had we had a better candidate.
Biden just looked confused by the question.

So is speeding or running a stop sign.

Depending on the jurisdiction, those may be misdemeanor crimes.

Local authorities are not empowered to deport someone.

No, but they can - and should - honor immigration detainers. Especially when the illegal alien is a felon. And even more especially when he or she was already in federal custody but was placed in your custody on your request.

Do you know why our immigration system is so dysfunctional? Because passing a good immigration reform bill would remove the scary bread and butter issue that makes xenophobes and racists tremble in their tiny little hearts and vote Rethuglican.

There is blame to go on both sides. While that reform bill was far from perfect, Republicans blocked it to have a campaign issue, yes.
At the same time, name-calling people, defaming them as "xenophobes" and "racists" just because they are opposed to illegal and otherwise mass migration is completely uncalled for, and I think that's another reason sufficient number of independents ended up voting for Trump again. After all, MAGA base is maybe 30% of the electorate. He could not have won without Dems alienating millions. After all, Trump got 49.8% of the vote against Kamala, and 46.1% against Hillary. Even when he lost against Biden, he still got 46.8% - far more than just his MAGA base.
Name calling people that disagree with you on an issue is a good way to lose friends and alienate them. You'd think Dems learned something from Hillary's "basket of deplorables" debacle.

I do understand why you don’t find E. Jean Carroll’s accusations credible. You’ve never likely been in that position. But a lot of women have been or similar enough that she sounded very credible. Given the time lapse, there would be little or no physical evidence but she did have the dress with semen and she did call a friend immediately after, who urged her NOT to call the police, given Trump’s wealth and fame. As awful as sexual assault is, the fear of not being believed or of being blamed is almost worse. You cannot imagine.

I will point out that you seem to have different standards for sexual assault depending upon who the victim is and who the accused perpetrator was. An observation.

Yes, my phone is sometimes absolutely evil and completely changes words. It’s already done so twice in this reply ( both correct word choices and spelled correctly). I don’t always catch the changes.

Did you know that one way that ICE can track someone is through an ankle bracelet? According to my sources ( law enforcement, attorneys) anyway. If ICE had wanted him, they could have found him.

There is no doubt that Garcia-Zarate was holding the weapon that killed Kate Steinle but he was found not guilty of murder Abd manslaughter by a jury, neither you nor o were in the courtroom so we cannot know exactly what evidence was presented or how the jury reached their decision. He was found guilty of weapons charges and faced deportation.

The thing that you and many other people fail to acknowledge is that aliens facing deportation still have legal rights in the aid, including to a hearing or trial to determine whether they are to be deported. Everyone on US soil has legal rights.

Crossing the border without legal documentation is not a criminal offense, whatever you may wish. It’s not. Full stop.

I definitely recognize that racists and xenophobes are almost always unwilling to admit to having even a whiff of racism. That does not change the fact that deciding in advance whether someone deserves the same rights as you do based upon their physical appearance/race or perceived race is indeed racism. Those I grew up around just thought they were being realistic. You’d have liked them, I think. Mostly I did as well —I loved and respected my father greatly but I knew he was wrong. Like many white people who grew up very poor, feeling superior to someone was a coping mechanism. You know the song: I Never Picked Cotton? Played on the radio a lot when I was a kid. Very popular in its day.

One thing I recall about living for a stint in Europe is that many racists and xenophobes and other sorts end up blithely ignorant or blind to the xenophobia and it's manifestations in their behavior.

You know, until recently it hadn't dawned on me, and by recently, I mean "yesterday days old", that there's just no perspective that what they are doing IS racism or xenophobia in general for many.

I recall a series from a show, I think it was Stranger Things where the kids told someone that his actions WERE bullying, exactly as they were and then that character changed entirely after that moment.

The thing is, I do think that many people have crossed over into an inability to feign ignorance to it any longer. I think many do not want to look, perhaps cannot bear to look right at the searing sadness of the truth that they have fucked up badly and that work is necessary to stop their fuckups from polluting the future as they do the past.

But I accept at least that people can be blinded as much desire to just not feel so bad, to leave feeling bad as a last rather than near-first resort.

It's just sad to see people defending literal Nazi actions taken by literal Nazis as if it's normal, and even sadder if they are too strategically harmed by misinformation to understand it.

And yes, I mean literally in the correct usage. There's footage of these fucker's Nazi tattoos, of the ICE in Minneapolis.

Hegseth has Nazi tattoos.

One of the things I’ve read, in an attempt to explain why some are so attracted to Trump is that many have/had very authoritarian fathers. That tracks for many —but not all—of Trump supporters I know.

 

[Gospel]

Actual police actions use real bullets.

Actual police weren't involved in any part of the incident so I'm not sure what your point is.

EDIT: zorq was far more eloquent than me.

"Actual police actions" was the phrase, not "actual police". Actual police do engage in crowd control actions with rubber bullets, and actual police do engage in actual police actions with real bullets.

If you're going to quote me, do so accurately.

And zorq made the same mistake, just more eloquently.

Speaking of actual police.

Did you see the press conference where local law enforcement leaders from across the Twin Cities metro area raised concerns about interactions between federal agents and Minnesota police officers, stating that federal agents were engaging in actual police actions?




Crazy right?

Edit: To clarify, I didn’t mean verbatim wording when i said "stating". I meant that the actions he described are police actions in practice, such as conducting traffic stops.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

No, I did not see that press conference until now.

 

[Gospel]

The most alarming part to me is law enforcement saying there is almost no communication with them about where & what ICE is doing. Even when they reach out to ICE leadership, they are not directed to anyone specific and are instead told to visit a website and file a complaint. That is what local law enforcement is dealing with. That’s insane.

Edit: And the complaint process is effectively useless, since it requires identifying the ICE agent involved, but local law enforcement has no way of knowing who is who.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Has this been posted yet?



It's a good analysis.

 

[ZiprHead]

Kristi Noem loses temper as ICE agent Jonathan Ross is doxxed on live TV in nervous rant

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem lashed out at a CBS News anchor after naming the ICE agent who fatally shot Renee Good.

Good, a 37-year-old Minneapolis mother, was fatally shot by ICE officer Jonathan Ross, who was identified by The Star Tribune to the ire of DHS, in her vehicle while blocking the road during an immigration raid Jan. 7.

The White House has argued that the officer was acting in self-defense after accusing Good of being a domestic terrorist who weaponized her vehicle to impede law enforcement operations. It comes after an ICE agent made a chilling three-word order before shooting a woman 5 times.

So saying the name Jonathan Ross is now considered to be doxing. So warning. Do not say the name Jonathan Ross. You can get into trouble by saying the name Jonathan Ross.

 

[WAB]

First, he'll get off scot-free, as we know, and even if he's tried and convicted, his pardon is almost assured. Furthermore, he'll be feted as a national hero, and will most likely get a book deal in a couple years.

His Go Fund Me is currently at nearly $750,000. Goodness knows how much it will get to. He stands to retire early, and to live a very comfortable life, with honors, as a reward for shooting a woman in the face point blank because she was in the way.

 

[Elixir]

Kristi Noem loses temper as ICE agent Jonathan Ross is doxxed on live TV in nervous rant

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem lashed out at a CBS News anchor after naming the ICE agent who fatally shot Renee Good.

Good, a 37-year-old Minneapolis mother, was fatally shot by ICE officer Jonathan Ross, who was identified by The Star Tribune to the ire of DHS, in her vehicle while blocking the road during an immigration raid Jan. 7.

The White House has argued that the officer was acting in self-defense after accusing Good of being a domestic terrorist who weaponized her vehicle to impede law enforcement operations. It comes after an ICE agent made a chilling three-word order before shooting a woman 5 times.

So saying the name Jonathan Ross is now considered to be doxing. So warning. Do not say the name Jonathan Ross. You can get into trouble by saying the name Jonathan Ross.

Even worse to tell us where he lives!
(Where does he live?)

 

[bilby]

So saying the name Jonathan Ross is now considered to be doxing. So warning. Do not say the name Jonathan Ross. You can get into trouble by saying the name Jonathan Ross.

It's pronounced "Woss", btw.

 

[ZiprHead]

First, he'll get off scot-free, as we know, and even if he's tried and convicted, his pardon is almost assured. Furthermore, he'll be feted as a national hero, and will most likely get a book deal in a couple years.

Not if he is tried in state court.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

First, he'll get off scot-free, as we know, and even if he's tried and convicted, his pardon is almost assured. Furthermore, he'll be feted as a national hero, and will most likely get a book deal in a couple years.

Not if he is tried in state court.

In Australia we have proceeds of crime laws. Do these exist in USA? If so, and he is convicted and sentenced in a state court, then a strong case can be made that his GoFundMe income can be seized, as also any income from any upcoming book sales.

 

[ZiprHead]

Can't say I've ever heard of such a thing before so I have to say no.

 

[WAB]

First, he'll get off scot-free, as we know, and even if he's tried and convicted, his pardon is almost assured. Furthermore, he'll be feted as a national hero, and will most likely get a book deal in a couple years.

Not if he is tried in state court.

In Australia we have proceeds of crime laws. Do these exist in USA? If so, and he is convicted and sentenced in a state court, then a strong case can be made that his GoFundMe income can be seized, as also any income from any upcoming book sales.

I am only speculating out of anger...and anticipating the worst, because the worst seems to be happening.

And I doubt that any laws that exist have ever applied equally and fairly. "Some animals are more equal than others." - Orwell

 

[Toni]

First, he'll get off scot-free, as we know, and even if he's tried and convicted, his pardon is almost assured. Furthermore, he'll be feted as a national hero, and will most likely get a book deal in a couple years.

Not if he is tried in state court.

In Australia we have proceeds of crime laws. Do these exist in USA? If so, and he is convicted and sentenced in a state court, then a strong case can be made that his GoFundMe income can be seized, as also any income from any upcoming book sales.

If you are found not guilty then I think you can . Not a lawyer.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I am only speculating out of anger...and anticipating the worst, because the worst seems to be happening.

In your defense, I don't really think that's the worst case and I think it's based on some extrapolations of past events. It really isn't all that unreasonable so far as speculations. Now, on the other hand, if you had added that the he would also auction off the gun used in the killing as well as some bad artwork for some hefty sums of money, now that would be pushing the limit into speculation without evidence. I mean, we have absolutely no idea if that guy would be willing to try to produce a painting...