Oklahoma fraternity being persecuted by PC Police

[Sarpedon]

If it were right, they wouldn't be ashamed to do it in public.

 

[laughing dog]

Probably a large factor in these actions by OU is to limit the damage in the real arena that counts: recruiting for division I big money sports.

 

[NobleSavage]

Just a question: if a video leaked where a black fraternity was changing "kill whitey... murder all the devils", would that be ok? Someone is gonna get smart and go to a "Step Party" and get some footage of the most vile and racist shit you have ever seen.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Just a question: if a video leaked where a black fraternity was changing "kill whitey... murder all the devils", would that be ok?

what makes you ask the question? When has there ever been some group labeled Angry Black People who spend way too much time whining about why they can't say hateful things about white people? Be careful how you answer.

Someone is gonna get smart and go to a "Step Party" and get some footage of the most vile and racist shit you have ever seen.

You mean a Step Show? You may find this amazing, but black Greeks really don't spends alot of time making up or handing down generation after generation anti-white people chants. And steps shows are about putting other black frats in the dozens, not white people.

IOW, to whom it may concern, it ain't all about y'all.

 

[NobleSavage]

what makes you ask the question? When has there ever been some group labeled Angry Black People who spend way too much time whining about why they can't say hateful things about white people? Be careful how you answer.

Someone is gonna get smart and go to a "Step Party" and get some footage of the most vile and racist shit you have ever seen.

You mean a Step Show? You may find this amazing, but black Greeks really don't spends alot of time making up or handing down generation after generation anti-white people chants. And steps shows are about putting other black frats in the dozens, not white people.

IOW, to whom it may concern, it ain't all about y'all.

Well, the black frats normally don't own their own houses. They would reserve a large room in the student union. The interesting thing is, I worked at the student union and had a front row seat to all of their parties. I've never heard so much "murder", "kill", "rape", and vile shit in my life. "Step Show" and "Step Party" were kinda interchangeable.



It was illegal to have alcohol on university property -- the black frats got a pass on this as well. You may find this amazing, but white Greeks really don't spends a lot of time making up or handing down generation after generation anti-black people chants. Our primary concern was beer and girls.

And steps shows are about putting other black frats in the dozens, not white people.

What?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This chant was not done in public, so it was not done to harass or create a hostile environment.

Neither would a klan meeting behind closed doors.

 

[Sarpedon]

Now I've been to college, got two degrees, and never heard of anything like this. Can anyone corroborate what NobleSavage is saying?

And what does it mean to put someone in the dozens?

 

[NobleSavage]

Now I've been to college, got two degrees, and never heard of anything like this. Can anyone corroborate what NobleSavage is saying?

And what does it mean to put someone in the dozens?

Your are not going to find or be able to get a good statistical sample. Every school is a little different. Every local chapter of a national frat is different. Every point in time is a little different. The thing is racism wasn't socially acceptable when I was in school. Twenty years later, I'm sure it's still not acceptable. So the way you handle something like the SAEs and Univ of OK is to 1) socially shun them. 2) ignore them. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is usually an effective strategy. Same with sexism and homophobia. Keep in mind the sororities are equal players in the drunken orgies. They didn't want the party at their house, but they sure would fund the party at our house. And there is all kinds of gay sex going on in the frats. If you google step show you will find a bunch of public performances. That is different that what goes on in private parties. Clinton came to our Campus and one of the black frats put on a step show. It was awesome.

I'm big on the first amendment. The black frats can say anything they want. More power to them. The thing is, I want the same standard applied to everyone.

 

[NobleSavage]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

--Voltaire

The SAEs in OK were definitely in the wrong. However, The lynch mob mentality that is going after them now scares me. CNN is saying there is death threats....

 

[untermensche]

Probably a large factor in these actions by OU is to limit the damage in the real arena that counts: recruiting for division I big money sports.

Every University with a big time sports program relies on that program for revenue.

This is a far bigger issue than a few drunk frat boys.

That is where many blacks (and all races) are actually being harmed. Generating millions and risking their health and future mobility to do it.

Yet no health insurance to deal with lifetime injuries like CTE or pensions.

 

[NobleSavage]

Probably a large factor in these actions by OU is to limit the damage in the real arena that counts: recruiting for division I big money sports.

Every University with a big time sports program relies on that program for revenue.

This is a far bigger issue than a few drunk frat boys.

That is where many blacks (and all races) are actually being harmed. Generating millions and risking their health and future mobility to do it.

Yet no health insurance to deal with lifetime injuries like CTE or pensions.

Yeah, seriously. My GF has a boy who is a football prodigy in HS. Everyone is trying to steer him into a college program. I'm the only one saying that is a real stupid idea. He has the intelligence to get a real degree and make something of his life, other than football.

 

[RavenSky]

I am also saying it could easily exist.

If the courts protected this kind of speech from the whims of Universities then it would exist. And they could justify it by the first Amendment. The first Amendment recognizes the freedom of speech. The Amendment highlights that by saying the government does not have the right to infringe upon speech. Once a right is recognized the government can protect it from any infringement.

Right now the courts protect the rights of Universities to expel over speech that merely offends.

I don't think they should give Universities that right.

- - - Updated - - -

So you say.

I say the University should not have the right to punish speech of this kind.

You don't defend or condemn their right.

You merely say they have it.

Yes, they have it.

They shouldn't. And it wouldn't take a Constitutional Amendment to deny them that right.

and if the fraternity and members of that fraternity contracted to limit that speech and conduct in exchange for recognition, housing, representation in student government, ECT.? What then?

I say contracts that remove Constitutional rights should not be recognized as valid by the courts.

So you are suggesting that in your version of a perfect world that someone could come into my shop using abusive, vile, racist, hurtful language - thereby causing me emotional distress and driving away my paying customers - yet I can't make that person leave my premises?

 

[RavenSky]

The university is a state university, so a case could be made that the gov't is restricting their freedom of speech. If this were a private institution, they'd have every right because the principle of the freedom of speech is not unlimited in reality. Nor does the principle of the freedom of speech protect one from every possible consequence of one's speech.

Given the bolded line in the chant, you don't think the University had the right and responsibility to expel the students?

"There will never be a n***** in SAE.
There will never be a n***** in SAE.
You can hang him from a tree, but he can never sign with me
There will never be a n***** in SAE."

While I would hope the boys were not advocating for actual lynchings, this does go a bit beyond just racist language.

 

[RavenSky]

what makes you ask the question? When has there ever been some group labeled Angry Black People who spend way too much time whining about why they can't say hateful things about white people? Be careful how you answer.

Someone is gonna get smart and go to a "Step Party" and get some footage of the most vile and racist shit you have ever seen.

You mean a Step Show? You may find this amazing, but black Greeks really don't spends alot of time making up or handing down generation after generation anti-white people chants. And steps shows are about putting other black frats in the dozens, not white people. .

This is really interesting. Love watching this style of dance, but never knew the origins and always called it "STOMP" - which apparently came from this:  The first nationally syndicated stepping contest, S.T.O.M.P., aired in 1992 was created by Frank Mercardo Valdes, produced by the World African Network and Vic Bulluck and choreographed by Vernon Jackson and Jimmy Hamilton of Alpha phi Alpha fraternity.

What does "putting other black frats in the dozens" mean?

 

[NobleSavage]

The ACLU seems to agree with untermensche here, and thinks that the University may not in fact have the right to expel these students. I'm a bit in the middle on this matter - if it were a private college, I would say they have the right. Being a publicly funded university, I'm not so sure:



http://acluok.org/2015/03/aclu-of-o...mas-announcement-of-vp-of-diversity-position/

I'm thinking that this may have been a better alternative:

Don’t Expel Members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon for Racism

Educate them. Show them what their words mean.

...

As far as the University of Oklahoma is concerned, I should say I’m not thrilled with the punishment. Disbanding the fraternity might be justified, but expelling students for hate speech is an extreme response that runs afoul of free-speech norms, if not the First Amendment.

Education would be better. The University of Oklahoma is two hours away from Tulsa, which in 1921 was the site of one of the worst anti-black race riots in American history. More than a thousand whites stormed the black district of Tulsa and razed it to the ground, killing hundreds and leaving thousands homeless and destitute. Black Tulsa never recovered, but memories of the attack live on among descendants of the victims.

Don’t expel the boys. Bring them to Tulsa. Have them see the memorials and talk to the children of survivors. Give them a chance to see what their words actually mean, and whether they want to be the kinds of people who sing about lynching for fun.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...tudents_and_disbands_sigma_alpha_epsilon.html

Your idea of education is on the right track. I don't think the way to do it is by government force. Someone respected in the little SAE world at U of OK need to take the boys on a field trip.

We have a little racist that works on our crew. He is 18 and has never been out of bumble fuck Midwest, USA. When we get done with him he won't be a racist. No reason to fire him. We just tease the shit out of him. He wants someone to take him to a strip club, we put qualification on that like going to an all black strip club. I told him he needs to travel. He likes to fish -- I'm trying to think up a place where black people like to fish.

 

[untermensche]

So you are suggesting that in your version of a perfect world that someone could come into my shop using abusive, vile, racist, hurtful language - thereby causing me emotional distress and driving away my paying customers - yet I can't make that person leave my premises?

That's a good question; Should property rights trump the freedom of speech?

I don't think they should.

 

[Axulus]

Probably a large factor in these actions by OU is to limit the damage in the real arena that counts: recruiting for division I big money sports.

Every University with a big time sports program relies on that program for revenue.

This is a far bigger issue than a few drunk frat boys.

That is where many blacks (and all races) are actually being harmed. Generating millions and risking their health and future mobility to do it.

Yet no health insurance to deal with lifetime injuries like CTE or pensions.

That situation is created by a cartel (NCAA), in collusion with the NFL. If the schools weren't allowed to collude, they would have to compensate these athletes and provide them generous health insurance and disability benefits to attract their talent for their school. Why the anti-trust laws are powerless to stop it is the question everyone should be asking.

 

[RavenSky]

So you are suggesting that in your version of a perfect world that someone could come into my shop using abusive, vile, racist, hurtful language - thereby causing me emotional distress and driving away my paying customers - yet I can't make that person leave my premises?

That's a good question; Should property rights trump the freedom of speech?

I don't think they should.

I'm not really talking about property rights - I'm talking about my right to earn a living and therefore survive. I'm talking about my right not to be verbally abused while on my own property. Do you think one person's "free speech" supersedes every other right of every other person?

 

[NobleSavage]

So you are suggesting that in your version of a perfect world that someone could come into my shop using abusive, vile, racist, hurtful language - thereby causing me emotional distress and driving away my paying customers - yet I can't make that person leave my premises?

That's a good question; Should property rights trump the freedom of speech?

I don't think they should.

You need to put some qualifications on that.

 

[untermensche]

That's a good question; Should property rights trump the freedom of speech?

I don't think they should.

I'm not really talking about property rights - I'm talking about my right to earn a living and therefore survive. I'm talking about my right not to be verbally abused while on my own property. Do you think one person's "free speech" supersedes every other right of every other person?

This is a terrible scenario because it involves some person doing something nobody does or at least nobody without schizophrenia does.

But would you restrict the right of people to picket in front of businesses and try to persuade people not to use those businesses?