California Doing California Things

[bilby]

Neighborhoods with higher crime rates get policed more heavily in general.

As a result, more crimes are detected in those neighbourhoods.

This increases the crime rate. Thereby justifying increased policing.

It's neatly circular, and only needs a pinch of racism to prime the pump, after which the system carries on producing racist outcomes without racists having to act on their racism at all, other than to occasionally defend the system as being non-racist because it is based only on "crime rates", which clearly have no racial component whatsoever and just happen to expose the fundamental fact that niggers are a bunch of criminals some neighbourhoods are more prone to crime than others.

 

[thebeave]

When public safety takes the back seat to political correctness and the bankrupt ideology of "disparate impact", everybody ends up worse off. That is also related to this idea from the article above that police should not pull people over because too many driving infractions are committed by "black and brown" people.

This philosophy seems to be catching on in the general public, not just police. Fortunately the woman in the article below eventually saw the errors of her ways, but it was a little too late for the old man:

Stranger assaulted by maniac weeks before he pushed retired NYC teacher to death recounts frightening attack: ‘Why is he following us?’

The horrified victim told The Post she and a friend were on a subway in Manhattan on April 2 when Rhamell Burke approached them and began a conversation they quickly shut down before frantically trying to switch cars to get away from him.

She said the crazed suspect stalked them closely and allegedly yanked her by the back of her head in an attempt to slam her to the ground and booted her friend in the back.

“He comes up and he kicks my friend in the back, and basically pushes him through the transition of the cars,” the woman said in a phone interview Friday night.

“My friend freaks out, runs away, and then he grabs me by the head and pushes my head down, trying to like maybe throw me on the ground or something. But I didn’t, I resisted as much as I could. I didn’t fall, and then I immediately opened up the car and then ran towards my friend.”

“We started running a little bit, but then thank God the cops were right there because, I mean, we kept thinking about, imagine that there were no cops, we would have had to literally run for our lives. They immediately arrested him. It was shut down really fast by the cops and we respected that.”

She said the attack left her and her friend “in shock,” but they ultimately chose not to cooperate with prosecutors — a decision she now regrets after Burke was charged with murder on Friday for allegedly hurling 76-year-old stranger Ross Falzone to his death at a Chelsea subway station Thursday night.

Police had taken the violent brute to Bellevue Hospital for “acting erratically” Thursday afternoon before he was released about an hour later and allegedly launched the deadly unprovoked attack later that night.

“I regret it 100% and I actually feel really bad that a man lost his life,” the woman said.

“Maybe a part of me was just like, I don’t want to put another black man in jail, but, you know, at some point, if you are a criminal, you’re a criminal, and he was scary, he was a scary guy.”

Burke was hit with an assault charge for the April attack and granted supervised release at arraignment.

 

[thebeave]

The absolute truth is that areas with greater minority populations are policed more heavily

Neighborhoods with higher crime rates get policed more heavily in general.
In regard to Politesse's jaywalking example, a city neighborhood with a grid layout and heavier through traffic will see more traffic enforcement than a quiet suburban neighborhood with no significant through traffic because many streats end in cul-de-sacs. But Politesse wants to make it about race and ethnicity instead of traffic.

and minority people are arrested or ticketed at much higher rates than their white counterparts engaging in the same behavior in a whiter part of town.

Groups that commit more infractions/crimes per capita will be ticketed/arrested at higher rates. For example, blacks commit 5-6x more homicides per capita than whites. Why should you expect arrest rates to be the same?

My BIL has long been a substance abuser and back in the day, when police pulled him over for a DUI, they’d see a nice looking white kid with the address of my in-laws in a very nice very white neighborhood ..and let him go.

And you attribute these anecdotes to him (and you) being white? In any case, traffic laws, including DUIs, should be enforced, and the LA city council is wrong for making it harder for LAPD to enforce the law. This will hurt public safety for all Angelinos, but they only have themselves to blame for electing such idiots.
I snipped the rest of the anecdotes since they veered into accents and academia and had little to do with the question of why LA city council things that it is wrong for police to enforce traffic laws.

I found this interesting:

On the Robustness of Black Americans’ Support for the Police: Evidence From a National Experiment

Highlights:​

• Most Black Americans want to maintain or increase police patrols.
• Most Black Americans want to maintain or increase police spending.
• Even if crime declines, most Black Americans want police patrols and spending.
• Even absent new reforms, most Black Americans want police patrols and spending.
• Black Americans’ policing preferences may be firmer than those of other groups.

Abstract:​

Recent polls reveal a complex picture of policing attitudes in Black America. Although most Black Americans are afraid of the police, most also prefer to maintain (or increase) local police presence and spending. Are these paradoxical policy preferences artifacts of the questions used in Gallup and Pew polls—questions that fail to disentangle assumptions about trends in crime and police reform? We tested this experimentally using a nationwide survey (N = 1,100) with comparable numbers of Black (N = 511) and non-Black (N = 589) respondents. We found that Black Americans’ policing preferences were robust—if anything, they were more robust than those of non-Black Americans. Most Black Americans said that even if crime was declining and new police reforms were not enacted, they would still prefer to maintain (or increase) police patrols and spending. Both fear of police and perceived procedural justice predicted policy preferences, regardless of respondents’ race.

 

[Toni]

The absolute truth is that areas with greater minority populations are policed more heavily

Neighborhoods with higher crime rates get policed more heavily in general.
In regard to Politesse's jaywalking example, a city neighborhood with a grid layout and heavier through traffic will see more traffic enforcement than a quiet suburban neighborhood with no significant through traffic because many streats end in cul-de-sacs. But Politesse wants to make it about race and ethnicity instead of traffic.

and minority people are arrested or ticketed at much higher rates than their white counterparts engaging in the same behavior in a whiter part of town.

Groups that commit more infractions/crimes per capita will be ticketed/arrested at higher rates. For example, blacks commit 5-6x more homicides per capita than whites. Why should you expect arrest rates to be the same?

My BIL has long been a substance abuser and back in the day, when police pulled him over for a DUI, they’d see a nice looking white kid with the address of my in-laws in a very nice very white neighborhood ..and let him go.

And you attribute these anecdotes to him (and you) being white? In any case, traffic laws, including DUIs, should be enforced, and the LA city council is wrong for making it harder for LAPD to enforce the law. This will hurt public safety for all Angelinos, but they only have themselves to blame for electing such idiots.
I snipped the rest of the anecdotes since they veered into accents and academia and had little to do with the question of why LA city council things that it is wrong for police to enforce traffic laws.

You find more crimes/infractions when you look for them. It is well documented that children of color face more and harsher discipline than their white classmates starting in preschool.

Surely you have been in school and noticed that some kids were always in trouble while other kids got away with stuff? I certainly did and we were all 100% white. My older sibling was an excellent student, earning perfect scores and always perfectly behaved. Because it was known that I was their sister, it was assumed that I would be as intelligent and well behaved. I got credit for being better behaved than I was —except for one year when the teacher disliked me and blatantly favored some other kids I was a good student t, actually and as was the custom ofthe day, his students were often assigned to help students who were ‘struggling’ I was asked to help a boy named Mike who was frequently in trouble with this teacher and who the teacher regarded as being a trouble maker ( she disliked me for pointing out he could not have broken something on Friday because he wasn’t at school on Friday). Turns out, he did not need any help—he knew his stuff backwards and forwards. And it was arithmetic so not a lot of room for interpretation. I saw time and again that some kids were always in trouble for things other kids were not. And that I could have gotten by with murder—because the teachers saw me as a smart good girl.

If teachers are told a student or group of students are extremely intelligent, they treat them that way. Abd if they ar e told that students are not very bright, they treat them that way. Test results reflect the perceptions the teachers have of students based on what they were told. Self fulfilling prophesies.

Do you really think that doesn’t happen writ large, in law enforcement? It absolutely does.

Communities of color are more heavily policed and persons of color are more likely to be arrested for the same infractions white people are not prosecuted for. Persons of color are more likely to be found guilty abd receive harsher sentencing compared with their white counterparts convicted of similar crimes

 

[Toni]

Guys, I’m getting worried about TSwizzle. He seems to be having eye issues??

 

[thebeave]

Guys, I’m getting worried about TSwizzle. He seems to be having eye issues??

Looks the same to me.

 

[laughing dog]

Disparate outcomes/impact is not evidence of "racism".

Of course it is evidence of racism. Doesn’t mean it is conclusive evidence or proof.

Things that are consistent with a number of different explanations are not evidence for any particular one.

Any single outcome is consistent with multiple explanations, so what is your point?

Of course they are evidence, just not proof or conclusive evidence.

Of course it is a reason in a fair and rational society.

No, it is not. Traffic laws exist for a reason. To not enforce them because too many of the preferred races commit traffic infractions in LA is just the height of identity politics idiocy.

As a general principle, if laws are enforced in an unjust manner, then either the enforcers should or changed or the laws changed in a fair and rational society.

Your response presumes no underlying racism in enforcement. Apparently the gov’t thought it had evidence. Do you have independent evidence - not opinion- that suggests they were incorrect?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

The cops go to where they're called. If there's an alleged crime, that's where they go. To think otherwise is to engage in an idealistic fantasy that stubbornly prevents any critical thinking and therefore prevents addressing the hard facts of the situation currently at issue in this thread.

To say that certain groups of people are arrested at a higher rate because cops are racist is as lazy and therefore as damaging as the same sweeping generalities that conservatives make. These types of deflections get nothing done and worse, they only serve to make the problems in poor communities worse by looking outward rather than inward to solve the problem(s). When Obama attempted to address the issue as one of change needing to come from within, he was first applauded but eventually vociferously derided by leadership from the groups he wanted to help.

Maybe a good hypothetical question would be to consider that if all racist cops could be removed, would crime go down in communities experiencing high crime rates?

Another would to ask if policing was the same in low crime areas, would crime go up in those areas and would crime go down in high crime areas?

I think the answers are obvious but I am curious to hear how others would answer those questions.

 

[Elixir]

Neighborhoods with higher crime rates get policed more heavily in general.

As a result, more crimes are detected in those neighbourhoods.

This increases the crime rate. Thereby justifying increased policing.

It's neatly circular, and only needs a pinch of racism to prime the pump, after which the system carries on producing racist outcomes without racists having to act on their racism at all, other than to occasionally defend the system as being non-racist because it is based only on "crime rates", which clearly have no racial component whatsoever and just happen to expose the fundamental fact that niggers are a bunch of criminals some neighbourhoods are more prone to crime than others.

That is exactly the footing that southern racists love to stand on. It’s a well funded, greatly beloved vicious cycle, which, if broken, would surely decimate property values in those “safe” white residential areas.

 

[Elixir]

The cops go to where they're called. If there's an alleged crime, that's where they go. To think otherwise is to engage in an idealistic fantasy that stubbornly prevents any critical thinking and therefore prevents addressing the hard facts of the situation currently at issue in this thread.

That’s funny. A bit delusional, but funny.

When my family moved to San Fran in 1964, I was 14. The first thing I did, having never actually lived in a big city, was to walk from the bay to the ocean and from the Avenues to the Embarcadero, up Bernal heights and through part of the Mission District. Miles of walking to try to memorize street names. I saw quite a few a few cops walking the streets. None in Pacific Heights, or Bernal Heights, but on every block of the Fillmore, and fairly thick in the mission District. Not “responding to crimes”, but rather anticipating them.
Their presence did make me feel a little less terrified in those poor black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Being naive at 14, I was unaware of the feedback loop, or the dark purpose served by maintaining it. It came a lot more clear to me a few years later when I was living in the Haight Ashbury, on the edge of the Fillmore, and had a chance to meet the people and see what they were struggling with.

 

[laughing dog]

The cops go to where they're called.

In the context of traffic stops (the discussion) how does that work?

 

[Bomb#20]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

 

[Tigers!]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

If you were ticketed for jaywalking and were doing 35mph then you should try to beat Usain Bolt in a sprint.
Unless jaywalking in the US means something different.

 

[thebeave]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

If you were ticketed for jaywalking and were doing 35mph then you should try to beat Usain Bolt in a sprint.
Unless jaywalking in the US means something different.

Yeah, he's making a joke there, but I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet, so it remains a mystery to me too.

 

[Elixir]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

If you were ticketed for jaywalking and were doing 35mph then you should try to beat Usain Bolt in a sprint.
Unless jaywalking in the US means something different.

You should see some of our Jay-runners.
You have to look quick or you miss them. But you can still detect the sonic boom!

 

[Politesse]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

If you were ticketed for jaywalking and were doing 35mph then you should try to beat Usain Bolt in a sprint.
Unless jaywalking in the US means something different.

Yeah, he's making a joke there, but I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet, so it remains a mystery to me too.

I'll take "Things That Never Happened" for 600, Ken.

 

[Bomb#20]

Similarly, the state did away with "jaywalking" tickets and the result has been more pedestrians being injured.

You know damn well that "jaywalking" was only ever treated as a crime in the barrios. White people in their little suburban neighborhoods cross the street to get to their mailbox or chat with Mrs Macready about the petunias and no one bats an eye.

I was ticketed for jaywalking in my little suburban neighborhood, and yes, I'm a white person. I thought about going to court and contesting the obviously false charge -- the ticket claimed I was doing 35 mph -- but I decided to just pay the fine.

If you were ticketed for jaywalking and were doing 35mph then you should try to beat Usain Bolt in a sprint.
Unless jaywalking in the US means something different.

Yeah, he's making a joke there, but I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet, so it remains a mystery to me too.

No joke, unless you count the intrinsic humor of the situation. A traffic ticket is not an essay question -- there's a standard form the detaining officer fills out. On the form, the box for how fast the perp was going is right next to the box for what the posted speed limit was. If the charge is speeding the officer will need to put a number in both boxes for a court to calculate the fine, but for jaywalking I'm guessing the normal practice is to leave the box for actual speed blank. On my ticket the speed limit box was left blank.

 

[Politesse]

Gave him sass, didn't you?

 

[Bomb#20]

Gave him sass, didn't you?

No, I just meekly took my real punishment -- the twenty-five minute waste of my time for trying to save a minute, most of which was the obligatory lecture about how dangerous jaywalking is and the personal recollection of pedestrian injuries he'd seen -- with good grace. Cops aren't famous for their sense of humor. I didn't even notice he'd jotted down the speed limit in the wrong box until I got home.

 

[Politesse]

Gave him sass, didn't you?

No, I just meekly took my real punishment -- the twenty-five minute waste of my time for trying to save a minute, most of which was the obligatory lecture about how dangerous jaywalking is and the personal recollection of pedestrian injuries he'd seen -- with good grace. Cops aren't famous for their sense of humor. I didn't even notice he'd jotted down the speed limit in the wrong box until I got home.

Are you famous for your sense of humor, by any chance?