RVonse
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2005
- Messages
- 4,049
- Location
- USA
- Basic Beliefs
- that people in the US are living in the matrx
1) I already answered that earlier in this thread. I believe socialism is when Obama and Bush bailed out and made whole private institutional banks at the public expense. Public tax payers were forced by the government to enrich private CEO bank individuals. Public money (socialism) to bail out private banks yet in better times the profits from those same banks kept private.According to your understanding,I clearly agree with what you say here. 1000%If your point is that extremism from any direction is bad government, I whole heartedly agree.Government was choosing which business could succeed and which would have to fail. In my own neck of the woods, some restaurants got to stay open and others had to close. That is not free market capitalism. It might be good politics for you and even feel good to you today..... but it is simply not free market capitalism. And that assumes COVID was a real pandemic that mattered in a material way to the public (which in itself is still a controversy today). Assuming COVID was a real public threat the government could have and should have simply said every business had to follow the same rules in order to stay open. That's not what they did. Government could have acted like an honest umpire in that crises... the umpire letting one team get 3 strikes but letting the other team get 4 strikes before they were out. Our government was not fair at all to free market capitalism.I don't know about Amazon.
But my opinion of Walmart went up a bunch during COVID-19.
Nobody could enter without wearing a mask. Just inside the door was a big hand sanitizer station. Smaller ones were scattered around the store. Employees would politely, but firmly, remind shoppers of the stores distancing requirements.
Most Mom and Pop stores didn't bother with any of that.
Tom
Whatever the US is doing today, its not free market capitalism and it is IMO getting even worse with Trump mixing government and private enterprise. Maybe it should be called fascism? Or perhaps some word that means government completely held hostage by monopoly powerful unknown interests who are hiding in plain sight?
In any case, what the left should be doing is fervently attacking and fighting the current sad state of fascism. Asking for free market capitalism first! Before making an opinion that we need more socialism for a better life. We might just be perfectly happy just to get rid of the powerful interests making all the decisions. Or if that's too difficult of a task....maybe just smaller government that can't interfere as much or do the big damage we see today?
The left should be truthful with itself knowing what has happened and what could have happened. Before making any advertisements that socialism might be better.
It is the responsibility of all people to adhere to our highest principles and to seek middle ground. This can best be done by not demonizing ‘the other side.’ There should be no ‘other side.’ There can and will be and should be differing opinions about the best approach to how best to structure governed t to best serve the people. Compromise and middle ground are often key elements in finding the best solutions.
But my point is that the left needs to understand what free market capitalism is and what socialism is before knowing that socialism is the answer. All of us appear ignorant of what socialism really is and I get the feeling that many on the left have not even bothered to troubleshoot the problem before they immediately jump to their socialism ideology. Indeed, maybe the problems with America might not be that it needs socialism, maybe America just needs to be what it was supposed to be.
1) what is really socialism,
2) what is really free market capitalism, and when did the US have it, and
3) what was America supposed to be?
I ask, because if you are invoking the founding father's views, that included legalized slavery, no voting rights for women , , and no direct election of senators, among other things.
2) Free market capitalism was farming in the US before the corporations started to take this over. Private individuals competing in the marketplace with no monopoly. Same laws and regulations for every farmer. After T. Roosevelt broke up the trusts the US had something close to free market capitalism in other industry.
3) The land of opportunity and freedom. That means small government and everyone given the chance to succeed regardless of race and color. The laws, regulation, and playing field the same for everyone. Its still not perfect but generally, the hardest working and willing to take risks are the people who do the best. They are also the same ones who benefit society the most.
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