Roe v Wade is on deck

[Toni]

There is no problem with it for me. I am pointing out the Emily Lake has the same issue with her position as she does with mine, just at a different "location".

No. My position is based on degree of development, not location. I place a limit on when abortions are acceptable based on how developed the fetus is, not where it is located.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, your position allows for the "location anomaly" just as much as mine does. The difference lies in where the location lies. Wherever your "development/survival" nexus determines the cutoff for legal abortions for any reason, a premie with identical developmental characteristics as a fetus will be alive while the fetus is aborted.

My point is that despite your efforts to frame your position as reasonable and scientifically based, its foundation is not scientific at all: it's when a fetus becomes a baby.

The biggest difference in “location” is whether the woman’s body is at risk.

 

[Elixir]

<derail>

soaps have been defunct for decades

Someone forgot to inform the cast and producers of
* General Hospital
* Days of Our Lives
* The Young and the Restless
* The Bold and the Beautiful
… and probably many more.
Whatever the top programs are today, none of them are likely to show that kind of staying power!
Thank you for yor attention to this matter.

</derail>

And you know this...how?

I suspected as much because I was pretty sure I saw General Hospital on some channel in the Dish guide within the last year, so ( don’t hate me ) i asked an AI “what long running soap operas are still on the air“?
Knowing that it came from an AI, you’re probably eager to prove it wrong, right? Could well be … if you can do that I will tender an apology, and acknowledge you as a superior soap opera historian.
You been missing your soaps?

 

[thebeave]

<derail>

soaps have been defunct for decades

Someone forgot to inform the cast and producers of
* General Hospital
* Days of Our Lives
* The Young and the Restless
* The Bold and the Beautiful
… and probably many more.
Whatever the top programs are today, none of them are likely to show that kind of staying power!
Thank you for yor attention to this matter.

</derail>

And you know this...how?

I suspected as much because I was pretty sure I saw General Hospital on some channel in the Dish guide within the last year, so ( don’t hate me ) i asked an AI “what long running soap operas are still on the air“?
Knowing that it came from an AI, you’re probably eager to prove it wrong, right? Could well be … if you can do that I will tender an apology, and acknowledge you as a superior soap opera historian.
You been missing your soaps?

Don't worry, I'm not going to go down some long, windy rabbit hole to prove you wrong about soaps. I have more pressing trivial nonsense to research. I was never a daytime soaps fan but I did occasionally watch a few prime time ones in my day. Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, etc. And another one called...let's see...hmmmm.. oh yeah, Soap.

 

[Elixir]

<derail>

soaps have been defunct for decades

Someone forgot to inform the cast and producers of
* General Hospital
* Days of Our Lives
* The Young and the Restless
* The Bold and the Beautiful
… and probably many more.
Whatever the top programs are today, none of them are likely to show that kind of staying power!
Thank you for yor attention to this matter.

</derail>

And you know this...how?

I suspected as much because I was pretty sure I saw General Hospital on some channel in the Dish guide within the last year, so ( don’t hate me ) i asked an AI “what long running soap operas are still on the air“?
Knowing that it came from an AI, you’re probably eager to prove it wrong, right? Could well be … if you can do that I will tender an apology, and acknowledge you as a superior soap opera historian.
You been missing your soaps?

Don't worry, I'm not going to go down some long, windy rabbit hole to prove you wrong about soaps. I have more pressing trivial nonsense to research. I was never a daytime soaps fan but I did occasionally watch a few prime time ones in my day. Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, etc. And another one called...let's see...hmmmm.. oh yeah, Soap.

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.
Back in the early 80s my wife worked at home and watched All My Children and GHospital ‘most daily. I mocked her for it rather cruelly I think.

 

[ZiprHead]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

 

[ZiprHead]

Back in the early 80s my wife worked at home and watched All My Children and GHospital ‘most daily. I mocked her for it rather cruelly I think.

Early eighties times were pretty tough. I had a buddy that couldn't find work for a while. He got quite involved in the soaps.

I remember the government cheese too. It was actually pretty good.

 

[thebeave]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

He played Jody, the first openly gay major character on a TV show. And no, Dr Smith on Lost in Space doesn't count.

 

[Emily Lake]

There is no problem with it for me. I am pointing out the Emily Lake has the same issue with her position as she does with mine, just at a different "location".

No. My position is based on degree of development, not location. I place a limit on when abortions are acceptable based on how developed the fetus is, not where it is located.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, your position allows for the "location anomaly" just as much as mine does. The difference lies in where the location lies. Wherever your "development/survival" nexus determines the cutoff for legal abortions for any reason, a premie with identical developmental characteristics as a fetus will be alive while the fetus is aborted.

My point is that despite your efforts to frame your position as reasonable and scientifically based, its foundation is not scientific at all: it's when a fetus becomes a baby.

Your response falls flat when you read the rest of my post. You know, the part you deleted as it negates your claim?

 

[Elixir]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

He played Jody, the first openly gay major character on a TV show. And no, Dr Smith on Lost in Space doesn't count.

From 1967 to 1985-ish I watched virtually zero TV. I think I was a lot smarter then.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So... the husband should also go to prison for murder if he helps his wife with what he and a doctor believes is necessary for her?

How the hell did you get to this from anything I said?

You used the word "murder". Murder is a strong word... it is also a serious felony. If someone is found to be involved in one, they usually get put on trial, and if convicted, go to prison.

You cannot find me opining that mothers should go to jail. You’ve made that up out of thin air.

I had a question mark. You understand what a question mark is, I'm certain of it. So, unless I'm mistaken and you don't understand what a question mark is, I'm confused as to why you think an interrogative statement is a declarative one. I asked for some clarification, instead I get anger and accusation.

I'm even more uncertain why you would use the word "murder" and then get all self-defensive when people start asking about prison.

 

[laughing dog]

There is no problem with it for me. I am pointing out the Emily Lake has the same issue with her position as she does with mine, just at a different "location".

No. My position is based on degree of development, not location. I place a limit on when abortions are acceptable based on how developed the fetus is, not where it is located.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, your position allows for the "location anomaly" just as much as mine does. The difference lies in where the location lies. Wherever your "development/survival" nexus determines the cutoff for legal abortions for any reason, a premie with identical developmental characteristics as a fetus will be alive while the fetus is aborted.

My point is that despite your efforts to frame your position as reasonable and scientifically based, its foundation is not scientific at all: it's when a fetus becomes a baby.

Your response falls flat when you read the rest of my post. You know, the part you deleted as it negates your claim?

It didn’t if you actually think about it,so there was no need to repeat it.

 

[Toni]

Back in the early 80s my wife worked at home and watched All My Children and GHospital ‘most daily. I mocked her for it rather cruelly I think.

Early eighties times were pretty tough. I had a buddy that couldn't find work for a while. He got quite involved in the soaps.

I remember the government cheese too. It was actually pretty good.

My mom used to watch the CBS soaps and if I was home from school sick or during summer break, I saw at least part of them as a kid.

 

[Elixir]

I'm even more uncertain why you would use the word "murder" and then get all self-defensive when people start asking about prison.

Stick around. There’s a whole lot more where that came from.

 

[Toni]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

He played Jody, the first openly gay major character on a TV show. And no, Dr Smith on Lost in Space doesn't count.

Concurrently and much more obviously gay: Uncle Arthur played by Paul Lynde

 

[thebeave]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

He played Jody, the first openly gay major character on a TV show. And no, Dr Smith on Lost in Space doesn't count.

Concurrently and much more obviously gay: Uncle Arthur played by Paul Lynde

I thought of that, but Uncle Arthur was not formally recognized by the show as being "openly gay". Paul Lynde, the actor, (with the gay voice ) was widely assumed to be gay, even though he never formally admitted it. The TV networks were not ready for openly gay people back in the '60's. I believe Gene Roddenberry had ideas for a gay character on Star Trek, but the producers refused.

 

[Elixir]

I believe Gene Roddenberry has ideas for a gay character on Star Trek, but the producers refused.

Instead they had to settle for those fabulous uniforms.

 

[thebeave]

I believe Gene Roddenberry has ideas for a gay character on Star Trek, but the producers refused.

Instead they had to settle for those fabulous uniforms.

True. The closest they got to a gay reference was this episode where Kirk says, "Hey, Sulu check out this stalactite. Betcha you'd like some of this yourself, eh?" Somehow that made it past the censors.

 

[Toni]

Was Soap a comedy? I may have seen it and liked it, iirc.

Yup. Billy Crystal's big break.

He played Jody, the first openly gay major character on a TV show. And no, Dr Smith on Lost in Space doesn't count.

Concurrently and much more obviously gay: Uncle Arthur played by Paul Lynde

I thought of that, but Uncle Arthur was not formally recognized by the show as being "openly gay". Paul Lynde, the actor, (with the gay voice ) was widely assumed to be gay, even though he never formally admitted it. The TV networks were not ready for openly gay people back in the '60's. I believe Gene Roddenberry had ideas for a gay character on Star Trek, but the producers refused.

Was Dr. Smith gay? I never got that. I was only a sporadic viewer, liking only the Robot, and the characters played by Billy Mummy and Angela Cartwright. Everyone else was just a snooze for me and I’d go back to reading if they weren’t on screen. The actor was not gay afaik.

Uncle Arthur was not explicitly gay—no one was on tv in those days— but if I had known that there was such a thing as gay, I would have instantly realized Uncle Arthur was gay. Paul Linde was gay although not publicly acknowledged as such. Agnes Moorehead was rumored to be gay or bi.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This might be off-topic for the thread as it has nothing to do with television programming, but I'm willing to derail the thread anyway and the moderators can do as they select.

link

The Department of Health and Human Services' Office for Civil Rights told Fox News Digital Thursday it is sending a letter to Children's Medical Center of Dallas and UT Southwestern Medical Center outlining their obligations under federal disability civil rights laws as doctors make treatment decisions involving baby Gabriel.

The federal intervention comes after Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton took action to ensure the newborn receives medically necessary care after a dispute that began when his biological parents allegedly asked their surrogate to abort him after he was diagnosed with hypoplastic left heart syndrome.

This is a very messy situation as it involves a surrogate mother. What makes little sense is that the surrogate mother lives in Alaska and travelled to Texas to deliver the child. When the diagnosis was made for the child (at 20 weeks), the biological parents wanted the pregnancy to end. The diagnosis was very bad. But the surrogate mother did not want to end the pregnancy.

"I felt like, when the diagnosis was made and the decision to end his life was made, that it was selfish," West said in an interview with the anti-abortion organization Live Action while she was 35 weeks pregnant.

I have absolute no idea what the law is here. Forcing an abortion would seemingly be highly unethical, surrogacy or not. Ignoring the parents' also seems highly unethical. Also, saying the parents were acting selfishly seems absurd.

I am also curious who is legally responsible for the medical care. The Federal and State governments are pressuring care for the newborn. "Medical care" for a newborn with significant heart problems is extremely expensive.

Pro-life groups are applauding the surrogate mother, though I haven't seen whether they have raised the hundreds of thousands that the medical treatment will cost, and may ultimately be in vain.

 

[Toni]

This might be off-topic for the thread as it has nothing to do with television programming, but I'm willing to derail the thread anyway and the moderators can do as they select.

link

The Department of Health and Human Services' Office for Civil Rights told Fox News Digital Thursday it is sending a letter to Children's Medical Center of Dallas and UT Southwestern Medical Center outlining their obligations under federal disability civil rights laws as doctors make treatment decisions involving baby Gabriel.

The federal intervention comes after Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton took action to ensure the newborn receives medically necessary care after a dispute that began when his biological parents allegedly asked their surrogate to abort him after he was diagnosed with hypoplastic left heart syndrome.

This is a very messy situation as it involves a surrogate mother. What makes little sense is that the surrogate mother lives in Alaska and travelled to Texas to deliver the child. When the diagnosis was made for the child (at 20 weeks), the biological parents wanted the pregnancy to end. The diagnosis was very bad. But the surrogate mother did not want to end the pregnancy.

"I felt like, when the diagnosis was made and the decision to end his life was made, that it was selfish," West said in an interview with the anti-abortion organization Live Action while she was 35 weeks pregnant.

I have absolute no idea what the law is here. Forcing an abortion would seemingly be highly unethical, surrogacy or not. Ignoring the parents' also seems highly unethical. Also, saying the parents were acting selfishly seems absurd.

I am also curious who is legally responsible for the medical care. The Federal and State governments are pressuring care for the newborn. "Medical care" for a newborn with significant heart problems is extremely expensive.

Pro-life groups are applauding the surrogate mother, though I haven't seen whether they have raised the hundreds of thousands that the medical treatment will cost, and may ultimately be in vain.

Yes, it is a difficult, messy and tragic situation. Were I in the shoes of any of the parties, I honestly do not know what I would have done. I know what I * think* I would have done but until/unless one is in that position, it is impossible to know for certain.