How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Ukraine has offered that it is very open to peace talks.

And we rejected it becasue "fool me once ........."

 

[barbos]

They've signaled over and over that they are willing to give up land for peace

Nope, they signaled no such thing. You must be smoking some shit if you think they did.

 

[barbos]

But they aren't going to give up defensive positions

Let me dumb it down for you. American scum know that they are losing the war with Russia.
They need ceasefire to rearm and give themselves time to regroup. We are not playing this game anymore!
I want unconditional surrender followed by public execution of nazi scum you have carefully grown in Ukraine.
Ideally Western scum such as EU/UK/US presidents and NATO leadership and RAND corporation should be tried and executed. I want Yaroslav Hunka executed too.
But that's not realistic, so I will be OK with executing your Ukrainian puppet psychopaths.

 

[ZiprHead]

But they aren't going to give up defensive positions

Let me dumb it down for you. American scum know that they are losing the war with Russia.
They need ceasefire to rearm and give themselves time to regroup. We are not playing this game anymore!
I want unconditional surrender followed by public execution of nazi scum you have carefully grown in Ukraine.
Ideally Western scum such as EU/UK/US presidents and NATO leadership and RAND corporation should be tried and executed. I want Yaroslav Hunka executed too.
But that's not realistic, so I will be OK with executing your Ukrainian puppet psychopaths.

Blah blah blah nazi blah blah western scum blah blah Ukrainian puppets blah blah blah.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine launches one of its largest aerial attacks of the war, killing at least 6 people in Russia

An 83-year-old man was killed after a Ukrainian drone hit a private home in the Moscow region, local Gov. Andrey Vorobyov said. He also confirmed that a Ukrainian attack had sparked a blaze at a warehouse belonging to Russian retail giant Wildberries in the town of Podolsk, where images shared by Russian media outlets showed columns of black smoke .

A drone attack targeted three towns in Russia's southwestern Rostov region, killing five people, local Gov. Yury Slyusar said. The attack, with more than 150 drones, damaged several homes and a railway station and sparked a forest fire.

Ukraine has stepped up its attacks on Russia this year, with long-range missiles and swarms of drones increasingly targeting military industries and energy facilities. It has also increasingly pummeled giant Wildberries depots, burning billions of dollars' worth of merchandise and bringing the war home to the Russian public nearly 4½ years into Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Copernicus]

Anyone else here see he utter lunacy of the war, or it just me?

I don’t know. Russia wants to conquer Ukraine. Ukraine wants to be free. I think it’s lunacy for Russia to think that Ukraine would just give up without a fight!

Put it in historical context. The Russian Empire occupied Ukraine except for the western part, which was "Galicia" under the Habsburg Austro-Hungarian Empire. Germany took the eastern part of Poland, but Russia's occupation extended over much of Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) including Belarus. In WWI, the tsarist advance eastward intended to extend into Germany, and that was what the Soviet Empire ended up keeping as a satellite state, including all of Polish territory. The West barely managed to dislodge Russian occupiers from Austria, which remains outside of NATO to this day. It remains "permanently neutral".

During the WWI era, the tsarist expansion treated Ukrainians (aka Malorussians or "Little Russians") as essentially part of Russia. Ukraine was fully incorporated into the Soviet Union, a repurposed "Russian Empire". At the end of WWI, Germany had effectively won the Eastern front and lost the Western Front. After WWII, Soviet Russia had basically won back the former territory of the Russian Empire and expanded it further to the West. However, the Eastern Bloc consisted of nation-states that, by international agreement, were treated as sovereign. Nevertheless, as rebellions post-WWII showed, they were the prevailing occupying power until Gorbachev came along and the Soviet Empire collapsed.

The new Putin regime is an irredentist movement that is still pushing the old Russian imperial view that Ukraine is essentially "Little Russia". Putin promotes the idea that Russians, Belarussians, and Ukrainians are all "one people"--part of the same spiritual nation. These are Orthodox Christian territories that largely speak languages classified as Eastern Slavic. It is the same propagandist crap that the tsarist regime spread to motivate its westward expansion into non-Russian territories. Historically, the Muscovite state regarded itself as the "Third Rome" after the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century. The name "tsar" comes from the early Rus' name for Constantinople--"Tsargrad" (literally "Caesar City"). The idea was that the Tsar was the protector and ruler of the old Rus' territories, which included essentially the eastern portion of the old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

When barbos calls the western part of Ukraine "Galicia", he is referring to the partitioned part of Ruthenian lands that had been under Habsburg and German occupation. Putin is very much trying to bring back the Soviet/Russian Empire, which was historically oriented towards expansion into German-speaking territories. Barbos is essentially a propagandist for that expansion into at least Eastern Ukraine. Belarus has been all but incorporated now. When Lukashenko leaves, another Russian-controlled quisling will likely be installed in his place. Belarus could even be incorporated into the Russian Federation, just as parts of Ukrainian territory have already been incorporated.

What a load of crap.
Most of modern Ukraine has always been Russia (Except short term occupation by Poland and .... Sweden) Smaller part was most of the time occupied by Poland, that's true, but it does not make it Poland. Poles were trying to occupy whole Russia and were pretty close to achieving that through different kind of machinations

Ukrainian territory was formally united with Poland by a royal marriage in 1386. Belarussian and Ukrainian territories existed as a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for roughly 400 years, longer than they have been occupied by Russia. Afterwards, Ukrainian territory was only occupied by Russia for a little over 300 years. After briefly resisting Russian "Soviet" occupation after the October Revolution, Ukraine even became a separate "Soviet Socialist Republic" outside of the Russian Federation during the imperial Soviet period. When Gorbachev gave Ukrainians a chance to vote in an honest referendum, the Ukrainian people voted to leave the Soviet Union, as did other so-called "republics" in that empire. The Russian Federation was abandoned to stand alone, because national groups within the Soviet imperial sphere did not want to be dominated by Moscow. The Ukrainians especially had bitter memories of the Holodomor and other violent repressions that took place under Stalin, but post-Stalinist Ukraine still wanted to be free of Russia. They considered themselves part of Europe, not Russia.

 

[robnisch]

Lawsuits Filed Against U.S. Chipmakers for Tech Found in Russian Weapons

Aldous Law has joined several respected law firms in filing lawsuits against Texas Instruments, AMD, Intel, and Mouser Electronics. The cases were brought on be

www.aldouslaw.com

This is 8 months old.
Meidas Touch did an interview about the lawsuits today.
Should USA chip makers be held accountable for who buys their products?

 

[Bronzeage]

Lawsuits Filed Against U.S. Chipmakers for Tech Found in Russian Weapons

Aldous Law has joined several respected law firms in filing lawsuits against Texas Instruments, AMD, Intel, and Mouser Electronics. The cases were brought on be

www.aldouslaw.com

This is 8 months old.
Meidas Touch did an interview about the lawsuits today.
Should USA chip makers be held accountable for who buys their products?

Sure, but nobody can be held accountable for the final user of anything they sell. The chips probably went through a dozen hands before they made it to Russia.

 

[Patooka]

Lawsuits Filed Against U.S. Chipmakers for Tech Found in Russian Weapons

Aldous Law has joined several respected law firms in filing lawsuits against Texas Instruments, AMD, Intel, and Mouser Electronics. The cases were brought on be

www.aldouslaw.com

This is 8 months old.
Meidas Touch did an interview about the lawsuits today.
Should USA chip makers be held accountable for who buys their products?

Sure, but nobody can be held accountable for the final user of anything they sell. The chips probably went through a dozen hands before they made it to Russia.

If there were no intermediaries, or if AMD, Intel etc knew the final purchaser would be Russia, they absolutely deserve to be crucified.

 

[barbos]

Ukrainian territory was formally united with Poland by a royal marriage in 1386. Belarussian and Ukrainian territories existed as a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for roughly 400 years, longer than they have been occupied by Russia.

Let say it's true (it is not)
You just made the case for Eastern Ukraine being Russia. Because it was oocupied by Ukraine only 35 years ago.

 

[barbos]

Brainwashed deplorables here do no understand that Regime in Kiev has prominent opposition which does not get western press. You bought completely false narrative of Western Ukrainian nazis which were put into effective power in Ukraine by Western governments. All according to their plan of color-revolting all Russia's neighbors into russia-hating entities.
You did Georgia, Armenia. Tried in Kazakhstan. You did that even in Baltic States.
You put russia-haters into power everywhere.

 

[barbos]

Disgusting piece of shit

 

[Copernicus]

Ukrainian territory was formally united with Poland by a royal marriage in 1386. Belarussian and Ukrainian territories existed as a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for roughly 400 years, longer than they have been occupied by Russia.

Let say it's true (it is not)
You just made the case for Eastern Ukraine being Russia. Because it was oocupied by Ukraine only 35 years ago.

Everything I said is history and can be checked by anyone who cares to, including you. You do know about the Holodomor, don't you? And the role of Molotov and Kaganovich in deliberately starving roughly 3-5 million Ukrainians in their insane drive to force Ukrainian farmers into state-run farms? Many of those who survived were forced to resort to cannibalism. But, wait, maybe you know nothing about it. That would not be in the history books that you were allowed access to before the collapse of the Soviet Union. You know so very little about he history of your own country, and how Stalin created "Lebensraum" for ethnic Russians in territories under Moscow's control. Hitler lost his war with Russia, but Stalin was not different. He won his war, and he behaved exactly like the Nazi regime that he defeated. The competition between German and the Soviet Union was over which one got to expand its Lebensraum for its own ethnicity.

 

[barbos]

Everything I said is history and can be checked by anyone who cares to, including you.

I just did, and apparentnly Eastern Ukraine (Odessa included) and Crimea have never been part of magnificent Polish Empire.

 

[barbos]

You do know about the Holodomor, don't you?

Yes, ukro-nazis who took refuge in US after WW2 invented it.

 

[barbos]

Belarussian and Ukrainian territories existed as a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for roughly 400 years, longer than they have been occupied by Russia

Nope.

History of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

295 years under Polish rule (after poles took a bite from Russia under Golden Horde )
334 years under Russian rule
35 years under chaos and US control.

Looks like Russia has priority rights.
and keep in mind before poles taking a bite "Ukraine" which was not even called that was basically part of loosly defined Russian States.

 

[Patooka]

Moscow bob is talking like george w bush and trump.

And yet he is so fucking stupid as to use whataboutism with regards to Iran to think that's a valid arument.

What a stupid cint!.

I'm of course thinking of douglad macgregor. Or col davis. Who knows. I might be thinking of someone else.

 

[barbos]

I'm of course thinking of douglad macgregor. Or col davis. Who knows. I might be thinking of someone else.

I see you are a fan of retired US generals who bellieve that Ukraine is winning.

 

[barbos]

 

[Copernicus]

Everything I said is history and can be checked by anyone who cares to, including you.

I just did, and apparentnly Eastern Ukraine (Odessa included) and Crimea have never been part of magnificent Polish Empire.

Actually, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, extended to the Black Sea. That area did subsequently get absorbed into the Ottoman Empire, which also dominated the Khanate of Crimea. Catherine I conquered it later and established what became the modern city of Odesa. Your nutty irredentist theory of history validates Russia's right to invade Ukraine by only paying attention to places that Russia occupied historically while ignoring all of the other regional powers that occupied the same territory historically. Seriously, you should really be advocating for Moscow to be considered a possession of Mongolia or China.

You do know about the Holodomor, don't you?

Yes, ukro-nazis who took refuge in US after WW2 invented it.

So you don't know anything about it. It has been well established history for decades now, and much of the research has been based on Soviet archived records that were kept secret by the Soviet empire until its collapse. An excellent book on the subject of the Russian occupation of Eastern Europe was written by Historian Timothy Snyder: Bloodlands. It contains a brutally detailed account of the Holodomor and the sources he used to conduct his research. It is a difficult read, because the statistics are so gruesome.

Belarussian and Ukrainian territories existed as a part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for roughly 400 years, longer than they have been occupied by Russia

Nope.

History of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

295 years under Polish rule (after poles took a bite from Russia under Golden Horde )
334 years under Russian rule
35 years under chaos and US control.

Looks like Russia has priority rights.
and keep in mind before poles taking a bite "Ukraine" which was not even called that was basically part of loosly defined Russian States.

You are just looking at a Wikipedia page on the history of the city of Kyiv. Note that my comment was on Belarussian and Ukrainian territories. None of this validates your dipsy-doodle claims about "priority rights". There are no such rights, just irredentist/revanchist fantasies that no sane person would recognize as reasonable argument to support any invasion. The simple reality is that Russia invaded the neighboring territory of a country whose sovereignty it had previously agreed to respect. There is no historical argument to justify any of that, just the insane imperial fantasies of a brain-addled imperialist dictator.