MCATs, Affirmative Action, and DEI, Oh My

[Politesse]

You know what would be cool; if we had a way we could agree on the meaning of the words we use in any given situation.
Meaning usually depends on the subject. "Theory" is one of those words. In science it means one thing, but in the vulgate its meaning is vague.
Nice idea, but never going to happen.

The trouble is, the process of getting informed people to agree on a consensus definition tends to alienate uninformed people. But trying to use a "popular definition" just results in finding out just how many of those there are.

 

[Toni]

BTW, unless a discussion is about anthropological issues, whenever I see “tribe” or “tribal” , I see desperation.

Really? Do you think that in-group bias and out-group denigration is a fantasy of desperate people? Or do you just object to the commonplace term of "tribal thinking" for some reason?

Yes, really. I don't think that the concept of in-group bias and out-group denigration is a fantasy of anyone. I think the use of term "tribal thinking" is an attempt to signal perceived out-group denigration and lob a passive aggressive insult at the perceived in-group member.

I dunno, man. I think you might want to trace the thread back to where this particular bit of snippiness on my part was triggered:

Calling anything they don't like "tribal" is itself a common habit of racists...

How long have you been posting here?

 

[Elixir]

How long have you been posting here?

Sheesh, Toni, it’s right there in their profile.
Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

 

[Toni]

How long have you been posting here?

Sheesh, Toni, it’s right there in their profile.
Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Rhetorical question.

 

[Elixir]

Is that you, Loren?

First rule of tribal thinking: the outgroup are interchangeable parts.

Agree. The only good one is a dead one.
It is the duty of a tribe member to defend their hunting grounds. The value of an out-grouper starts at zero and goes down from there. Of course the ethics and morals get confusing when some outgrouper really IS worth less than zero… just stick to the tribe; it simplifies things.

 

[Emily Lake]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Turns out that menopause is really lowering my tolerance for bullshit, and it's reduced my willingness to pretend to be nice to people who are consistently not nice to me to about two minutes. I'm no longer particularly interested in trying to maintain civility toward uncivil posters.

Yeah, well, my ADHD gives me poor impulse control. Now that we've all aired our disabilities, consider writing something on topic.

Right now my topic is that I'm tired of your bullshit. And I do mean you, specifically.

There are seriously only a very few posters here that I have a problem with, so congratulations, you're in a select minority.

So you would define this post as a "personal attack"? Your intention is to personally attack me?

Meh. My intention is to return the attacks that you instigate, rather than continuing to be tolerant and "kind". You're not tolerant, you're not kind, you're not civil. I feel no more obligation to extend such consideration to you, you've exhausted all of my goodwill.

 

[Emily Lake]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Turns out that menopause is really lowering my tolerance for bullshit, and it's reduced my willingness to pretend to be nice to people who are consistently not nice to me to about two minutes. I'm no longer particularly interested in trying to maintain civility toward uncivil posters.

Yeah, well, my ADHD gives me poor impulse control. Now that we've all aired our disabilities, consider writing something on topic.

Right now my topic is that I'm tired of your bullshit. And I do mean you, specifically.

There are seriously only a very few posters here that I have a problem with, so congratulations, you're in a select minority.

I've got him on ignore. And I hardly ever ignore anyone.

I don't currently have anyone on ignore. He's on a very short list that is getting very, very close.

 

[Emily Lake]

Of course you think you're right and other people are dumb. That's more or less your MO.

Can you name any IIDB poster who doesn’t think they’re right and (at least some) other people are dumb?
Of course, excepting you and me … ?

Most other posters here recognize that other people are right sometimes, and that they themselves are wrong sometimes. Some few seem to lack that ability almost all the time.

 

[Emily Lake]

You know what would be cool; if we had a way we could agree on the meaning of the words we use in any given situation.
Meaning usually depends on the subject. "Theory" is one of those words. In science it means one thing, but in the vulgate its meaning is vague.
Nice idea, but never going to happen.

That would be a lovely thing. I don't see it happening in the era of humpty-dumpty though.

 

[Emily Lake]

Haven't we reached the ~E~ threshold here?

I would say days and days ago.

Then again, I kind of feel like everything in politics is just ~E~ v2

 

[Emily Lake]

How long have you been posting here?

Sheesh, Toni, it’s right there in their profile.
Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Profile is actually incorrect. I've been posting here since 2001, with a few years break in the middle because this place used to be subjected to some absurd levels of managerial drama.

 

[Emily Lake]

Is that you, Loren?

First rule of tribal thinking: the outgroup are interchangeable parts.

Agree. The only good one is a dead one.
It is the duty of a tribe member to defend their hunting grounds. The value of an out-grouper starts at zero and goes down from there. Of course the ethics and morals get confusing when some outgrouper really IS worth less than zero… just stick to the tribe; it simplifies things.

Now, now, Elixir, stop being racist.

 

[Politesse]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Turns out that menopause is really lowering my tolerance for bullshit, and it's reduced my willingness to pretend to be nice to people who are consistently not nice to me to about two minutes. I'm no longer particularly interested in trying to maintain civility toward uncivil posters.

Yeah, well, my ADHD gives me poor impulse control. Now that we've all aired our disabilities, consider writing something on topic.

Right now my topic is that I'm tired of your bullshit. And I do mean you, specifically.

There are seriously only a very few posters here that I have a problem with, so congratulations, you're in a select minority.

So you would define this post as a "personal attack"? Your intention is to personally attack me?

Meh. My intention is to return the attacks that you instigate, rather than continuing to be tolerant and "kind". You're not tolerant, you're not kind, you're not civil. I feel no more obligation to extend such consideration to you, you've exhausted all of my goodwill.

So it was, in fact, intended as a personal attack? That is deserved? You're "getting me back" by writing an attack post, with no other content than that attack?

 

[thebeave]

Is that you, Loren?

First rule of tribal thinking: the outgroup are interchangeable parts.

Agree. The only good one is a dead one.
It is the duty of a tribe member to defend their hunting grounds. The value of an out-grouper starts at zero and goes down from there. Of course the ethics and morals get confusing when some outgrouper really IS worth less than zero… just stick to the tribe; it simplifies things.

Tyler Robinson is that you?

 

[Elixir]

Is that you, Loren?

First rule of tribal thinking: the outgroup are interchangeable parts.

Agree. The only good one is a dead one.
It is the duty of a tribe member to defend their hunting grounds. The value of an out-grouper starts at zero and goes down from there. Of course the ethics and morals get confusing when some outgrouper really IS worth less than zero… just stick to the tribe; it simplifies things.

Tyler Robinson is that you?

Absolutely! I offed that Kirk creep because he kept talking about how Rice Krispies suck, while we all know Rice Krispies are the greatest thing since … well, Rice Krispies! Defending the Faithful!

 

[Emily Lake]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Turns out that menopause is really lowering my tolerance for bullshit, and it's reduced my willingness to pretend to be nice to people who are consistently not nice to me to about two minutes. I'm no longer particularly interested in trying to maintain civility toward uncivil posters.

Yeah, well, my ADHD gives me poor impulse control. Now that we've all aired our disabilities, consider writing something on topic.

Right now my topic is that I'm tired of your bullshit. And I do mean you, specifically.

There are seriously only a very few posters here that I have a problem with, so congratulations, you're in a select minority.

So you would define this post as a "personal attack"? Your intention is to personally attack me?

Meh. My intention is to return the attacks that you instigate, rather than continuing to be tolerant and "kind". You're not tolerant, you're not kind, you're not civil. I feel no more obligation to extend such consideration to you, you've exhausted all of my goodwill.

So it was, in fact, intended as a personal attack? That is deserved? You're "getting me back" by writing an attack post, with no other content than that attack?

If that's your interpretation, I suppose. I'm not in charge of your brain.

If you'd like the tone of our interactions to change, then consider changing your approach. I will adjust accordingly. Right now, we're well into tit-for-tat territory, and my willingness to tolerate your poor behavior and contempt has reached its limit.

 

[Derec]

Most significant reasons for dropping out: career changes, life changes, financial pressures. Don't think in absolute terms either. None of these are meant to indicate that there is only ONE reason a person drops out and sometimes in less frequent circumstances that could be tied to academics, too. I mean, why not? When people are being rational, they take time to think about their decisions and weigh pros and cons, costs and benefits.

These are also self-reported reasons and thus must be taken with a grain of salt. And as you said, these reasons can be tied to academics. Career change? Why did the person decide on changing careers? Maybe becuse med school is too academically demanding. Financial pressures? Maybe he or she doesn't want to risk incurring even more student loans if it's uncertain he or she will even be able to graduate.

MCAT scores are correlated to SES, which is related to financial pressures:

A better SES makes everything easier. Yes, even the MCAT. But how does SES help? On one end, you have the lifelong advantages that really make somebody better academically prepared - family that encourages learning and academic achievement from an early age, and also genetics (contra Lysenkoism, we are no more a tabula rasa than barleycorns). Then there are things like family being able to hire MCAT tutors and such. I do not think that makes that much of a difference. After all, there are many free resources (even YouTube videos), and the necessary resources that cost money - like UWorld/AAMC question banks and AAMC full length practice tests are not that expensive. And for low income people there is FAP, which gives you AAMC materials for free and lowers the MCAT registration fee.

I think parental money helps with other parts of the application far more. Personal statement and other essays? Rich parents can hire somebody to read these and make edits, or just write it outright. Research? Parents with connections make it easier to work in a lab for a summer. Same for volunteer experiences.

So I find this criticism of standardized tests (MCAT in this thread, but also SATs more generally) quite misplaced. Unlike the subjective metrics like essays, with tests it's still the student that has to do the work, even if there is help.

 

[Derec]

Have you read about recent kynchings in the Deep South?

Which ones?
Most alleged "kynchings"[sic] turned out to be suicides. And even the one case I know where a hanging turned out to be a murder, it was just a regular murder.
Tasia Fortune's hanging was 'staged' in 'drug case gone very wrong': Police chief

So again, can you point to some examples of these "recent kynchings" in the "Deep South" or even elsewhere?

 

[Derec]

Yep. It seems fair enough to those starting out with a 150 yard lead in a quarter mile race.

That's a lead somebody else had decades ago, in a different race. It is not moral to penalize people who sort of look alike for that head start long ago. Or, with Asian students, to penalize them 150 yards just because they are (on average) faster than others, when they don't even look like the runners who got a head start decades ago.

 

[Politesse]

If that's your interpretation, I suppose. I'm not in charge of your brain.

If you'd like the tone of our interactions to change, then consider changing your approach. I will adjust accordingly. Right now, we're well into tit-for-tat territory, and my willingness to tolerate your poor behavior and contempt has reached its limit.

If we are renegotiating our discursive relationship, I would like you to be honest about your flagrant violation of the forum's rules in this thread. The statement "this phrase is racist" is not a contentless personal attack. "I am writing this to express how much I hate you" most certainly is.