Noah’s Ark Found!!

[steve_bank]

AI Overview

No, ancient Israelites did not initially view Yahweh as the universal god of all humanity. For much of early biblical history, Yahweh was understood as a national or tribal deity (often associated with war or liberation) whose primary relationship and domain were with Israel

Jews did not and do not proselytize. Jews in U*SA oday do not bother anyone, yet are targets of abuse by Chartism and Muslims.

It was the early Christians followed by Muslims who felt empowered to force their versions of the Abrahamic god on others.

 

[Learner]

When the same people who think there's enough water "stored somewhere" in the earth or its atmosphere to inundate the Himalayas, also refuse to believe that melting our entire polar regions could raise the sea level by a couple of meters.

Thank you for reminding me.

I hadn't come to the polar regions or the mountains yet.

Antarctica I understand is the 5th largest continent on the planet, several times even that of Australia. You mention the seas rising because the ice from the regions are melting. Which btw I am certainly not "refusing to believe this" process...I actually agree with this because it actually favours my position than yours (plural).

Think about it when you said sea level rising..
...because in a global flood...there are would be NO Artic or Antarctica ice continents!! How high would the sea level be then?

Heres one for our friends and yourself. Perhaps you haven't realised while making that post:

Similar to when posters asked : "where did all the "extra" water come from?"
(My answer being that it came as part of the volume that is currently covering 71% of the earth ).

I ask likewise...
...where is all that snow coming from.. that has been falling on the ice continents and all the mountains globally? The process of evaporation globally evaporates from where? The ever continual process for thousands of years is how much water?

Indeed these polar regions would have a good deal influence for the sea levels to rise or fall.

(I can't type fast enough on the phone, later)

 

[Politesse]

Think about it when you said sea level rising..
...because in a global flood...there are would be NO Artic or Antarctica ice continents!! How high would the sea level be then?

Somewhere between 75-100 meters higher. A huge problem for a lot of the world's cities, but you wouldn't need a boat.

 

[Politesse]

I ask likewise...
...where is all that snow coming from.. that has been falling on the ice continents and all the mountains globally? The process of evaporation globally evaporates from where? The ever continual process for thousands of years is how much water?

Did... no one ever explain the water cycle to you? It's all the same water, changing forms. Hence why we know how much water there is, it's not actually created or destroyed.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I'll take "Shit You Have to Say to Apply for a Job at Ark Encounter" for $800, Alex.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I actually agree with this because it actually favours my position than yours (plural).

That sounds like a you problem. One ought to agree or disagree with things based upon evidence, not whether it fits together with your opinions.

 

[southernhybrid]

No. Materials have certain properties, and no matter who does the design, one cannot make the structure stronger than the materials allow.

That's funny, I agree with the above and say the same thing. We may disagree with where the limits lay.

Unless you want to go all the way of "it was a miracle" - in which case you could as well claim that the ark was made of folded newspapers and miraculously stayed together and afloat.

This is very much the same argument error as the previous above, : "We could as well have claimed the ark was made of folded paper.etc.." , would only be seen that way to you, and since that line is a nonexistent theist claim, then obviously ...theists don't use your example to analogously demonstrate the ark argument the way you do, or think it can.

Are you a Biblical literalist Learner? Hopefully not as it always amazes me when anyone still believes the old myths in the Bible, especially the insane stories in the OT to be literal.

Yes I am...but the bible isn't all literal. Thall shalt not commit murder etc, I.e. the commandments, to feed the poor and hungry, to love your neighbour...and your enemy is literal.

The ark is one of the craziest ones. The dimensions are written in the Bible and there is now way it could hold all animal life, the food needed to feed them for 40 days or the waste matter they would excrete. There were a lot of floods way back in ancient times. Other religious mythology is full of similar stories and symbols that are in the Bible, but anyone with a reasonable mind has to realize these things are all allegories at best, or myths etc.

I'll comment more on this with the other posts which I'm sure would also apply to the above.

Plus, how do Biblical literalists justify all the cruelty demonstrated by Bible god, one of the worst monsters ever created? Doesn't all that hate and killing including the Noah's Ark story, help people realize that this god was obviously created by men to resemble men?

It would be interesting to hear if you ask this from the Jewish believers too, and what their response would be.

The only Jewish friends I've had in the past, were very liberal. In fact, most of the ones I've known were Secular Jews, but sure if I were to meet a very conservative Jewish person and they wanted to discuss the nonsense in the Bible, I'd say the same thing to them. My last Jewish friend moved back to the Northeast. She is an atheist.

Afaik, the most conservative Jewish people tend to stay to themselves and rarely mingle with outside groups. Asfaik, there aren't any in my small city. There is at least one group in ATL, but I never visit ATL and when I did it was either to buy produce or meetup with other atheists at The Atlanta Freethought Society. We don't even have a Jewish temple anywhere near me, although I did know lots of Jewish folks when I grew up in NJ. I even dated one briefly when I was in high school, but I was afraid my fundy mom would disapprove so I stopped dating that handsome, charming teen after a time or two. I've been happily married for over 45 years to an atheist of Arabic background. I guess it was god's will for us to meet in the Bible Belt just down the road from Bob Jones U.

Still, Jewish people don't try to convert others to their religion and I've never heard one tell those outside their religion that they were going to hell. That's primarily a Christian thing and perhaps a conservative Muslim thing too.

My ex was a Baha'i, sadly a fanatical one. Bahai's believe in some kind of vague afterlife but no hell. They also tend to believe character is far more important compared to what a person believes. That religion is very idealistic, and somewhat nicer then Christianity, but like any other religion it's all fairy tales.

It's so hard for me to understand how people can still believe the myths in the Bible are true. Maybe I need to watch my Joseph Campbell DVD collection called, "The Power of Myth", again.

 

[bilby]

Think about it when you said sea level rising..
...because in a global flood...there are would be NO Artic or Antarctica ice continents!! How high would the sea level be then?

Well, you needn't insinuate that it might be high enough to cover the highest mountains, and hope that you aren't embarassingly wrong. Because these days, you can just google the result:

If all the land ice on Earth melted, global sea levels would rise by approximately 66 to 70 meters (about 216 to 230 feet), according to the U.S. Geological Survey. [1, 2]

70 metres is a touch less than:

Mount Everest has an official elevation of 8,848.86 meters (29,031.7 feet) above sea level, as jointly declared by Nepal and China in December 2020.

Thereby demonstrating beyond a doubt that you are embarrasingly wrong, and that your inspired rhetorical "gotcha!" question, intended to make your audience realise how foolish they are not to have thought of the sea level rise from melting icecaps, in fact reveals how clueless you are about the relative sizes of the things you are casually imagining. Antarctica is big. But the Earth is a LOT bigger.

Melt not just Antarctica, but ALL the ice on Earth, and you will get less than 1% of the way to inundating the mountains.

A 70m sea level rise would be devastating - but it wouldn't come anywhere near to the flood level claimed in Genesis.

It would drown a lot of coastal cities; But the total land area of most of the continents would be reduced only a little, and the basic shapes of the continents would remain easy recognisable:



That doesn't look like a global flood. The mountains are not inundated. Even some pretty low hills remain as dry land. Look at the Middle East. Noah's neighbours are mostly still not getting their boots damp.

 

[Elixir]

That doesn't look like a global flood.

A lot of Fludde water drained down a giant miracle sinkhole. That’s why we now have aquifers all over the planet.
Obviously.

 

[bilby]

I ask likewise...
...where is all that snow coming from.. that has been falling on the ice continents and all the mountains globally? The process of evaporation globally evaporates from where?

Perhaps you should ask this guy:

My answer being that it came as part of the volume that is currently covering 71% of the earth

Snow (and rain, and hail) is water that evaporated from the oceans, seas, rivers and lakes, and then precipitated back out of the air. It's all the same water, going round and round, driven by the heat of the Sun.


https://science.nasa.gov/kids/earth/what-is-the-water-cycle/

 

[pood]

I ask likewise...
...where is all that snow coming from.. that has been falling on the ice continents and all the mountains globally? The process of evaporation globally evaporates from where?

Perhaps you should ask this guy:

My answer being that it came as part of the volume that is currently covering 71% of the earth

Snow (and rain, and hail) is water that evaporated from the oceans, seas, rivers and lakes, and then precipitated back out of the air. It's all the same water, going round and round, driven by the heat of the Sun.

View attachment 55568
https://science.nasa.gov/kids/earth/what-is-the-water-cycle/

He was already told this. @Learner doesn’t learn.

 

[Elixir]

@Learner doesn’t learn.

And…? Most of what he posts are pathetically transparent attempts to convince himself that he is privy to transcendent majicke. What does learning have to do with that, other than to impede it?
CWOT, IMHO

 

[Tigers!]

Think about it when you said sea level rising..
...because in a global flood...there are would be NO Artic or Antarctica ice continents!! How high would the sea level be then?

Well, you needn't insinuate that it might be high enough to cover the highest mountains, and hope that you aren't embarassingly wrong. Because these days, you can just google the result:

If all the land ice on Earth melted, global sea levels would rise by approximately 66 to 70 meters (about 216 to 230 feet), according to the U.S. Geological Survey. [1, 2]

70 metres is a touch less than:

Mount Everest has an official elevation of 8,848.86 meters (29,031.7 feet) above sea level, as jointly declared by Nepal and China in December 2020.

Thereby demonstrating beyond a doubt that you are embarrasingly wrong, and that your inspired rhetorical "gotcha!" question, intended to make your audience realise how foolish they are not to have thought of the sea level rise from melting icecaps, in fact reveals how clueless you are about the relative sizes of the things you are casually imagining. Antarctica is big. But the Earth is a LOT bigger.

Melt not just Antarctica, but ALL the ice on Earth, and you will get less than 1% of the way to inundating the mountains.

A 70m sea level rise would be devastating - but it wouldn't come anywhere near to the flood level claimed in Genesis.

It would drown a lot of coastal cities; But the total land area of most of the continents would be reduced only a little, and the basic shapes of the continents would remain easy recognisable:

View attachment 55567

That doesn't look like a global flood. The mountains are not inundated. Even some pretty low hills remain as dry land. Look at the Middle East. Noah's neighbours are mostly still not getting their boots damp.

I do like the inland sea in Australia.
Note that Putin would probably not have invaded Ukraine either.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Personally, I'm starting to come around to the faith-based understanding of the Genesis flood. Some of the Christian writing on this thread has begun to grow on me, I suppose.

Could Adam have been 600 years old?
Well, first, anthropologists know that the human life span was between 20 and 30 years back in the BCE years. BUT, that's factoring in infant and childhood death, so, in fact, adults could and did reach ages 75 to 80. Also, Adam would have eaten the Mediterranean diet, which could make up some of the 520 year difference.
Lingering doubt: at age 600, with cataracts and a ball sac that was probably two cubits long, there's no way he wouldn't have nailed his nuts to the deck of SS Zooboat.

Could extra water have actually covered the plains, hills, and mountains of earth?
Well, if the firmament was there, it could've just emptied itself on the earth. And that's why we don't have no firmament no more. Also, Exodus 17 has Moses hitting a rock, after which the rock started gushing drinking water. So, who's to say the mountains didn't make their own water? Food for thought.

Could the earth have absorbed all the water at the end of the flood?
Yes, if you imagine some kind of Original Double Flusher. After all, Numbers 16 has God opening a trap door to swallow up the clans of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, and sending them all to Sheol, which was later incorporated as Hell Estates Inc. So we know this happens.
Lingering doubt: If that did happen, the waters would've put out the flames of Sheol/Hell and given everyone a swirlie, and I don't know if that comports with the dignity of the creator.

Could all the animals have fit on the Ark, along with their food?
Possibly yes, if you suppose that there were many now-extinct species on board ship, which tells you that some of the animals ate the other animals. So we're probably missing some exotic fauna from back then that got eaten by their shipmates. This is why today you cannot see such fabled species as the jackelope, the skittlebug, the jujube stinkbug, the three-toed possum mouse, or the wrinkled purple phallus slug. As for living space, yeah, it was probably packed. But look at Tokyo.

Does the flood comport with the concept of a Loving God?
Yes, because if God is Love, then he defines love, so that means you just have to expand your definition of love to include mass killings.

How could an omniscient God who knew past and present somehow regret that he had made man?
Fuck.

 

[DBT]

As a God of Love acts not out of anger, but Love, mass killings carried out by a God of Love must be an act of Love.

God, being Love, so Loved the world that He drowned it.

 

[bilby]

Yes, because if God is Love, then he defines love, so that means you just have to expand your definition of love to include mass killings.

Well, it seems reasonable that God was a big fan of tennis, and in tennis, love means zero, so allowing one family to survive while brutally killing every single other living thing, human and animal alike, babies, kittens, puppies, and even little lambs, is a tiny bit more than just love.

/apologetics

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

How could an omniscient God who knew past and present somehow regret that he had made man?
Fuck.

That one's easy. Imagine a crazy serial killer pedophile. He picks up a young girl by offering her candy in his car. Then, he does terrible things, murders her, and buries the body. He knew beforehand he was going to do it, he did it anyway, and he might feel some guilt over it afterward and even beforehand. If you listen to him, he might also say something like, he regrets being a serial killer pedophile so much, that next time, he'll drive a van instead.

Genesis 9:12-15
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.

2 Peter 3:5-10
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[pood]

Great. So the all-loving god is going to use fire instead of water to kill everyone. Thanks, god.

 

[aupmanyav]

It seems to be a very strange kind of Ark. I think quite natural, since it carried a pair of each, lions, tigers, elephants, whales, sharks and humans, bunyan and fir. Strange cargo.

 

[Learner]

I ask likewise...
...where is all that snow coming from.. that has been falling on the ice continents and all the mountains globally? The process of evaporation globally evaporates from where? The ever continual process for thousands of years is how much water?

Did... no one ever explain the water cycle to you? It's all the same water, changing forms. Hence why we know how much water there is, it's not actually created or destroyed.

Yeah sure,..

.... I was eluding to the amount of snow falling in the polar regions coming from the oceans. I have been here before a few years ago ... basically from the top of my head I was recalling from articles that was on NASA's site about Antarctica had gained in size despite the global warming.( I have to research the current state on the study...when I get time).
There was some other related stuff but I'll have to recall them.

Sorry folks can't respond to everyone quickly.