MCATs, Affirmative Action, and DEI, Oh My

[Toni]

I think that most people absolutely are injured to the impact art has on our lives. We need to encourage more art and more literature.

Do you think we need more art at the expense of more plumbers?

If you had to read what passes for writing of many university students, you’d really want to invest heavily in literature and writing degrees.

I don't think degrees in literature is the solution for primary school failures to teach basics.

I don't think that we are drawing from the same pool, so that's not a good question.

My observation is that people who read good writing tend to become better writers. And I've witnessed people held back professionally because they were not good writers--and also because they felt they weren't good at it and that it wasn't much use to try.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think that most people absolutely are injured to the impact art has on our lives. We need to encourage more art and more literature.

Do you think we need more art at the expense of more plumbers?

If you had to read what passes for writing of many university students, you’d really want to invest heavily in literature and writing degrees.

I don't think degrees in literature is the solution for primary school failures to teach basics.

I don't think that we are drawing from the same pool, so that's not a good question.

I think when we're talking about incentives, we are talking about the same pool. If we incentivize ALL degrees and fields equally, people will tend to disproportionately choose those that are easier to get and result in nicer jobs. I think if we incentivized trades, we'd have more tradesmen.

My observation is that people who read good writing tend to become better writers. And I've witnessed people held back professionally because they were not good writers--and also because they felt they weren't good at it and that it wasn't much use to try.

You're not wrong, exactly. I'm just saying that the failure point is far upstream of college. And if someone has writing and reading competence at a high school level, they're unlikely to be held back by that. Most of the effort in jobs is to get people to write with clarity and concision. For some people that means they need to learn to compose their thoughts in a more linear fashion, use basic grammar correctly, and check their spelling when there's a squiggly line under a word. For some, it means walking themselves down from jargon, prosaic word choices, and mini-novels.

 

[bilby]

Do you think we need more art at the expense of more plumbers?

Do you really think that's a choice anyone is making?

Are there large numbers of eighteen year olds who are genuinely uncertain which of those two careers they are best suited for?

Do we really want our sewer lines installed by someone who wants to make a creative statement about modern society, or are we better off having them done by people who just want the shit to go where it needs to go with a minimum of fuss?

Are we going to have the asthetics of our cities determined by people who like pipework? (they tried that in the '70s, and it resulted in the Pompidou Centre. Have we learned nothing?).

Whether we want more plumbers, or more artists, it's a shoo-in that we don't want either being forced into the other person's job.

 

[Politesse]

Look, FHA offers better interest rates and lower down payments for first time homebuyers. You understand why, don't you? Because owning a home is the absolute best way to build financial security, and financial security is good for the individuals and the country as a whole. Nothing in that program suggests that selling your current home and buying a different one is bad, nor does it discourage doing so. Nothing in that program suggests that renting is bad and should be avoided. Those are still reasonable and appropriate options that are available for people. But the government has decided (and I agree) that encouraging and incentivizing people to buy their first home is a good thing.

A policy commitment that, famously, resulted in extremely risky loans being offered, the sale of known risky debts as a tradable commodity, and directly caused a foreclosure crisis leading to the second most severe economic recession of the last century...

You know they still exist, right? They're just not as generous as they used to be.

But you raise an interesting connection point. Risky home loans led to risky debt which wasn't repaid and resulted in a recession. Seems like risky student loan have a similar exposure. Although I tend to think they've contributed to tuition being far too high and jobs requiring degrees for work that really doesn't need a degree - the combination of tuition inflation and degree inflation.

I'm all for putting pressure on predatory lenders.

Eliminating the humanities does not accomplish this. Quite the opposite.

 

[Toni]

I think that most people absolutely are injured to the impact art has on our lives. We need to encourage more art and more literature.

Do you think we need more art at the expense of more plumbers?

If you had to read what passes for writing of many university students, you’d really want to invest heavily in literature and writing degrees.

I don't think degrees in literature is the solution for primary school failures to teach basics.

I don't think that we are drawing from the same pool, so that's not a good question.

I think when we're talking about incentives, we are talking about the same pool. If we incentivize ALL degrees and fields equally, people will tend to disproportionately choose those that are easier to get and result in nicer jobs. I think if we incentivized trades, we'd have more tradesmen.

My observation is that people who read good writing tend to become better writers. And I've witnessed people held back professionally because they were not good writers--and also because they felt they weren't good at it and that it wasn't much use to try.

You're not wrong, exactly. I'm just saying that the failure point is far upstream of college. And if someone has writing and reading competence at a high school level, they're unlikely to be held back by that. Most of the effort in jobs is to get people to write with clarity and concision. For some people that means they need to learn to compose their thoughts in a more linear fashion, use basic grammar correctly, and check their spelling when there's a squiggly line under a word. For some, it means walking themselves down from jargon, prosaic word choices, and mini-novels.

I’m not sure that there is a category of work where it is easy to get the degree abd you get a nice job. I missed that path.

Writing is a good way to organize your thoughts and to help you better understand a topic.

Yes, much of the writing at work is technical and involves using good grammar, precision and concussion

But writing is used for many other purposes - and gas value beyond turning a buck.

 

[Politesse]

I haven't attempted to manipulate what majors are available. Only which are subsidized or backed by taxes.

Universities are public services, but they cannot operate without funding. Yes, you are arguing for mass program cancellation, whether or not you understand that.

 

[bilby]

I don't think degrees in literature is the solution for primary school failures to teach basics.

How do you think primary school teachers become qualified to teach the basics? Do primary schools just go out and pluck new teachers from the English Teacher trees?

 

[bilby]

I haven't attempted to manipulate what majors are available. Only which are subsidized or backed by taxes.

Why is your opinion on which should be subsidized or backed by taxes better than anyone else's?

It sounds to me like you are making the exact error that led to the planned economies of Eastern Europe in the C20th - you are deciding in advance how much of everything society must need, and refusing to supply anything else on the grounds that if it were necessary, you would have thought of it.

That did not end well last time out.

 

[bilby]

Again, at no point have I suggested that any majors should be disallowed.

If they are not funded, they are disallowed for anyone who isn't rich.

 

[Politesse]

Again, at no point have I suggested that any majors should be disallowed.

If they are not funded, they are disallowed for anyone who isn't rich.

Even rich people can't choose to pursue a major that has been discontinued. And that is what happens to programs whose enrollment vanishes. This is an argument about what kinds of knowledge should be passed on to future generations, and which domains should be extinguished.