Transracial Woman Under Fire in Spokane

[ApostateAbe]

Tendency of range of geographic location of ancestors about ten thousand years ago generally makes a major human race. With minor human races, the ancestral geography would be more recent. Ancestral geography corresponds to genetics, so geneticists can identify races by ranges of frequencies of genetic markers in combination, to match self-identification of race. See, for example, Tang et al's "Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies," 2004.

Actually no. All of the above is highly disputed among scientists, though I am entire unsurprised that you are the first to answer my question.

But let's even hypothetically assume you are accurate - has anyone done a genetic test on this woman? And either way, at what point do these "ranges of frequencies of genetic markers in combination" shift to make someone "white" vs "black"

Researchers at 23andMe looked at the genetic ancestry of about 78,000 customers likely to consider themselves as entirely of European ancestry and found that somewhere between 3 percent and 4 percent of those people have “hidden” African ancestry.

The percent of African ancestry is relatively low with the majority of individuals having just 0.5 percent to 0.75 percent — which suggests that those people have an African ancestor who lived about six generations, or about 200 years, ago.

Read more at http://blog.23andme.com/ancestry/our-hidden-african-ancestry/#VmmVW2BwlJf91xio.99

So, if someone claims to be of a particular race, and you doubt it, 23andMe.com will do a DNA test for 99 dollars and generally sort out whether or not he or she is telling the truth. No need to interview the parents.

The website says it can "learn what percent of your DNA is from populations around the world". So let's say, hypothetically, that her test came back showing that some small percentage of her DNA originates from Sub-Saharan Africa. How large must the percentage be before she can call herself "black"?

Races are spectral, following from the traditional biological usage and following from evolutionary theory, and so I suggest thinking of races much like colors on the profile of a rainbow (not that human races are defined by color). Here is an example of a color spectrum.

Choosing a discrete set of colors based on this can be a problem. You and I can draw vertical lines and make only a few divisions, or we can make many divisions. Maybe we both decide that "blue" and "green" should each be a single color with no subdivisions or intermediates. You draw a vertical line representing where the division should be, and I draw my own vertical line representing where I think the division should be. Very likely, the two lines will not exactly match. They may not even be close. Blue and green, though, are nevertheless objective phenomena. Races are the same way. This is the nature of spectra.

It is plausible that most white Americans have at least a little black ancestry. For black Americans, the mixture is even greater: an average of 20% European ancestry. HOW MUCH mixture it takes to change races is mostly a matter of opinion. But, in the case of this woman, I think the vast majority of people would count her as biologically white and not black. Maybe if you took the hyperbole of the  one-drop rule literally, she would count as black.

 

[repoman]

 

[repoman]

Cis black people are likely to reject your offers of friendship and solidarity. They are no better than trans-exclusionary radical feminists who deny the lived experience and suffering of transgender people. Politely explain to them that you have experienced just as much, if not more, oppression than they have.

Pushing the analogy until it breaks, fucking brilliant!

 

[repoman]

I like this guys stream

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

And just how, are you suggesting, is "race" embedded in one's brain chemistry, and presumably in the genetic make-up of the brain?

If you read carefully, you'll see that I am not. I stated that is something which science indicates regarding gender, not race (as far as I know). I'm agnostic on the subject matter, though if asked to speculate, I'd say there isn't a neurological difference which would indicate this woman has the brain of a black person rather than white -- I'd bet against that being a possible phenomenon. But then again, that's what many people said (and say) about transgender identities, and I'm not educated on the matter, so I'm not that interested in weighing in. I have no need to weigh in, and I can freely admit my speculation is pretty much worthless.

 

[repoman]

To be clear, I don't fully agree with all said in this satire video. I think that for the most part transgenderism is probably from gestational events.

 

[barbos]

View attachment 3274

LOL

 

[EricK]

It seems her blackness is a pigment of her imagination.

 

[RavenSky]

Races are spectral, following from the traditional biological usage and following from evolutionary theory, and so I suggest thinking of races much like colors on the profile of a rainbow (not that human races are defined by color). Here is an example of a color spectrum.

Choosing a discrete set of colors based on this can be a problem. You and I can draw vertical lines and make only a few divisions, or we can make many divisions. Maybe we both decide that "blue" and "green" should each be a single color with no subdivisions or intermediates. You draw a vertical line representing where the division should be, and I draw my own vertical line representing where I think the division should be. Very likely, the two lines will not exactly match. They may not even be close. Blue and green, though, are nevertheless objective phenomena. Races are the same way. This is the nature of spectra.

It is plausible that most white Americans have at least a little black ancestry. For black Americans, the mixture is even greater: an average of 20% European ancestry. HOW MUCH mixture it takes to change races is mostly a matter of opinion. But, in the case of this woman, I think the vast majority of people would count her as biologically white and not black. Maybe if you took the hyperbole of the  one-drop rule literally, she would count as black.

. So if it is all just a matter of opinion, it would seem to me that no one can say (beyond their opinion) if she is "white" or "black"

 

[repoman]

I don't think you believe what you wrote there.

 

[ApostateAbe]

Races are spectral, following from the traditional biological usage and following from evolutionary theory, and so I suggest thinking of races much like colors on the profile of a rainbow (not that human races are defined by color). Here is an example of a color spectrum.

Choosing a discrete set of colors based on this can be a problem. You and I can draw vertical lines and make only a few divisions, or we can make many divisions. Maybe we both decide that "blue" and "green" should each be a single color with no subdivisions or intermediates. You draw a vertical line representing where the division should be, and I draw my own vertical line representing where I think the division should be. Very likely, the two lines will not exactly match. They may not even be close. Blue and green, though, are nevertheless objective phenomena. Races are the same way. This is the nature of spectra.

It is plausible that most white Americans have at least a little black ancestry. For black Americans, the mixture is even greater: an average of 20% European ancestry. HOW MUCH mixture it takes to change races is mostly a matter of opinion. But, in the case of this woman, I think the vast majority of people would count her as biologically white and not black. Maybe if you took the hyperbole of the  one-drop rule literally, she would count as black.

. So if it is all just a matter of opinion, it would seem to me that no one can say (beyond their opinion) if she is "white" or "black"

If that is what it seems, then you may need to get your thinking on race more accustomed to the spectral model. Nobody would think that the difference between the colors red and blue are perfectly arbitrary with no objective difference. You can still have a paint bucket that is very plainly blue, even if there is a continua between the two colors. This woman very plainly belongs to the white (Europe-descended) biological race.

 

[thebeave]

Since race is becoming so nebulous these days, maybe Trayvon Martin, Micheal Brown, Freddie Grey and Tamir Rice are not really "truly black" after all and all this hub bub about white police officers (who may not even really be white, now that I think about it) shooting black men has been unnecessary. Maybe Obama is not really our first black president. He is half white, actually.

My head hurts.

 

[dismal]

Calling people who wish to be perceived as Black insane does not strike me as particularly tolerant or progressive.

It depends, if she has mental health issues then perhaps I'd be more willing to indulge her fantasy. But if she is just flat out lying then I'd be a lot less gentle with my opinions. I suspect the former but I really don't care that much about it. Ho hum.

I think perhaps one could call her "differently sane" put there is a certain order and logic to her behavior and who are we to judge?

What I don't see here is a cynical attempt to use posing as a different race for personal gain like you had with C. Thomas Howell or Elizabeth Warren.

Heck, I bet she could lecture you for hours on white privilege without a hint of irony.

 

[RavenSky]

"This woman very plainly belongs to the white (Europe-descended) biological race."

 

[ApostateAbe]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

 

[RavenSky]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

 

[fromderinside]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

Damn straight you are going out on the surface phenotype is a relevant limb of the political and social rationality tree. They are separate. One goes to mind while the other goes to stereotype.

 

[ApostateAbe]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

Racial phenotypes matter, one way or the other. She has a claim that her father is black, but, when there are absolutely no apparent phenotypes to match the claim, then the claim is unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. Skin color is genetically inherited, hair color is genetically inherited, eye color is genetically inherited, facial geometry is genetically inherited, but claims of ancestry can change any time on the spot.

 

[fromderinside]

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

Racial phenotypes matter, one way or the other. She has a claim that her father is black, but, when there are absolutely no apparent phenotypes to match the claim, then the claim is unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely. Skin color is genetically inherited, hair color is genetically inherited, eye color is genetically inherited, facial geometry is genetically inherited, but claims of ancestry can change any time on the spot.

The point you are trying to make is irrelevant if we are all part of a united states. No place for such here. Face it, everybody here is, at default, a sister by law ans aspiration. How about peddling roses? I understand smell is very relevant there.

 

[repoman]

I may be going out on a limb, but I would make the same claim for Gabrielle Reece, too. Racial phenotypes matter. When you got blonde hair, blue eyes, and your skin is white as white bread, I tend to take less seriously the claim of significant African ancestry, though anything is possible. A DNA test is the final arbiter.

Her father was a black man from Trinidad.

So much for you being able to eye-ball who is "white" and who is "black"

Mother's baby, Father's maybe...