How long before Europeans resent refugees?

[hinduwoman]

I particularly mean states like Germany Sweden Denmark Netherlands that are thought to be more liberal.

I have been reading some articles and comments by people there who are eager to show how welcoming and not-bigots they are. But have they really thought about the long term consequences of having such a huge influx in such small countries and the personal sacrifices they have to make?

My cynical outlook says that while it is one thing to help the needy now; it is another thing to continue to do that day in day out constantly.
As more keep coming the countries will run out of space and people will living in a crowded condition they are not accustomed to. Someone might find her scholarship has gone to a refugee because the latter needs it more; that job has gone to a cheaper migrant; that allotted housing taken away; higher taxes; maybe even welfare slashed to pay for refugee resettlement.

There will be conflict over what the migrants expect from their new lives and what the state can actually give them. There is bound to be conflict between the host states' cultural mores and the refugees'. (I am excluding whatever terror attacks may happen)

How long before ordinary citizens feels they are sacrificing too much and jettison their current ideals?

 

[bilby]

Well after WWII, Australia accepted a MASSIVE influx of refugees, mostly from Eastern and Southern Europe, to the great displeasure of many of the then population, who were busy trying to be more English than England.

The incomers were considered very much second class citizens, and were disdained as 'wogs', who were derided for their funny accents and poor English, their strange diets, and their odd customs.

But that resentment hasn't built up over time; it has died down. The country changed to accommodate the migrants, and the racists today have to find other groups of more recent migrants to get upset about.

In the UK it was a similar story; the people complaining about Muslims this year would have been complaining about the Caribbean migrants in the 1950s, '60s and '70s. Sure, there is still racism towards them and their descendants, but it is less common and less virulent today.

I suspect that you have it backwards; the resentment is a response to change, and fades as the refugees become just another part of the population.

 

[repoman]

This is an oldie but a goodie:

 

[Kusa]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

 

[Juma]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

Taking over? As an ant "takes over"the lion it rides on?

 

[barbos]

Well after WWII, Australia accepted a MASSIVE influx of refugees, mostly from Eastern and Southern Europe, to the

Few things: they were actual refugees, they were virtually indistinguishable from Australians, basically the same culture and there were no internet back then.

 

[bilby]

Well after WWII, Australia accepted a MASSIVE influx of refugees, mostly from Eastern and Southern Europe, to the

Few things: they were actual refugees, they were virtually indistinguishable from Australians, basically the same culture and there were no internet back then.

Few things: The current refugee influx into Europe is ALSO actual refugees; the refugees coming to Australia after WWII were VERY easily distinguishable from actual Australians, as far as the actual Australians were concerned; and the absence of an Internet does not render communication or understanding more easy than its presence.

So basically, all three of your objections are bullshit.

 

[barbos]

Few things: they were actual refugees, they were virtually indistinguishable from Australians, basically the same culture and there were no internet back then.

Few things: The current refugee influx into Europe is ALSO actual refugees; the refugees coming to Australia after WWII were VERY easily distinguishable from actual Australians, as far as the actual Australians were concerned; and the absence of an Internet does not render communication or understanding more easy than its presence.

So basically, all three of your objections are bullshit.

No, they are not all refugies, they are economic migrants. if they were refugees they would have stayed in the first descent country on their way and would not have demanded Germany. Also only syrians and Iraqi can claim to be refugees, not Africans.
You will have a hard time distinguishing eastern European from australian. Despite of claims of otherwise it is a scientifically established fact that racial differences play a role and when you have large group of people which look different, have completely different culture coming into another country they will tend to stay together and not assimilate. And internet makes it easier to abuse the this whole refugees system.
These young males of african and middle eastern descent storming Western Europe are well informed and organized.

 

[Jokodo]

Few things: The current refugee influx into Europe is ALSO actual refugees; the refugees coming to Australia after WWII were VERY easily distinguishable from actual Australians, as far as the actual Australians were concerned; and the absence of an Internet does not render communication or understanding more easy than its presence.

So basically, all three of your objections are bullshit.

No, they are not all refugies, they are economic migrants. if they were refugees they would have stayed in the first descent country on their way and would not have demanded Germany.

Are you claiming that in 1949, Australia was the closest decent country from Greece or Poland? Also, a bunch of them did go primarily for economic reasons.

Also only syrians and Iraqi can claim to be refugees, not Africans.

Because there are no wars or oppressive regimes anywhere in Africa. Right. If that's what you're picking up from your news sources, get yourself some different sources.

You will have a hard time distinguishing eastern European from australian.

Not when they open the mouth, which they'll inevitably do when they have a job interview at the latest.

Despite of claims of otherwise it is a scientifically established fact that racial differences play a role and when you have large group of people which look different,

Not all Syrians are easily recognised as non (autochthonous) European by their looks.

have completely different culture

Global culture has become more, not less, homogenous, among other things due to the internet.

coming into another country they will tend to stay together and not assimilate. And internet makes it easier to abuse the this whole refugees system.
These young males of african and middle eastern descent storming Western Europe

A definite description, which includes one involving a demonstrative, presupposes that its referent exists and is (uniquely) identifiable by both speaker and hearer. If the referent doesn't exist, we get a presupposition failure - the sentence's truth becomes undefined. What you're saying is like saying "the king of France is bold" in a world where we know that France is a republic.

Welcome to today's minilesson in natural language semantics.

are well informed and organized.

Well informed, more or less. Organised, no.

 

[barbos]

No, they are not all refugies, they are economic migrants. if they were refugees they would have stayed in the first descent country on their way and would not have demanded Germany.

Are you claiming that in 1949, Australia was the closest decent country from Greece or Poland? Also, a bunch of them did go primarily for economic reasons.

Yes, there were no descent countries in Europe at the time.

Also only syrians and Iraqi can claim to be refugees, not Africans.

Because there are no wars or oppressive regimes anywhere in Africa. Right. If that's what you're picking up from your news sources, get yourself some different sources.

Africa is in perpetual turmoil
There was no change (other than chaos in Libya ) which could explain sudden increase of "refugees" from sub-Saharan Africa.

You will have a hard time distinguishing eastern European from australian.

Not when they open the mouth, which they'll inevitably do when they have a job interview at the latest.

That's irrelevant because second generation will be indistinguishable even with their mouse open.

Despite of claims of otherwise it is a scientifically established fact that racial differences play a role and when you have large group of people which look different,

Not all Syrians are easily recognised as non (autochthonous) European by their looks.

Yes, they have an advantage.

have completely different culture

Global culture has become more, not less, homogenous, among other things due to the internet.

No it did not, if anything it allowed immigrants to keep living in their own culture watching their own TV and reading their own news.

coming into another country they will tend to stay together and not assimilate. And internet makes it easier to abuse the this whole refugees system.
These young males of african and middle eastern descent storming Western Europe

A definite description, which includes one involving a demonstrative, presupposes that its referent exists and is (uniquely) identifiable by both speaker and hearer. If the referent doesn't exist, we get a presupposition failure - the sentence's truth becomes undefined. What you're saying is like saying "the king of France is bold" in a world where we know that France is a republic.

This does not parse.

Welcome to today's minilesson in natural language semantics.

are well informed and organized.

Well informed, more or less. Organised, no.

Organized well enough to storm eurotonnel

 

[Bar-Jesus]

How long before ordinary citizens feels they are sacrificing too much and jettison their current ideals?

Most people in the UK do not want these freeloading refugees, that's for sure - send em back to Africa/ME

 

[iolo]

The European capitalist countries desperately need young workers to pay pensions and so on, but the political ignorance encouraged by the system allows racist scumbags to work up hatred against them to get power. It was always so - Irish troops were used to shoot down 'Welsh' workers in Newport, 'Welsh' troops to oppose Irish independence, starving Irish to blackleg on British strikes and so on - that's how the system works: it wants us to hate one another so that we work against our own interests. It needs mugs almost as much as it needs workers to exploit.

 

[Bar-Jesus]

The European capitalist countries desperately need young workers to pay pensions and so on, but the political ignorance encouraged by the system allows racist scumbags to work up hatred against them to get power.

And what part of 3 million unemployed in UK don't you get?

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it wants us to hate one another so that we work against our own interests. It needs mugs almost as much as it needs workers to exploit.

and your solution to that is what? ride the pink unicorn with a copy of Trotsky's famous works in your hand, yeah right

 

[iolo]

And what part of 3 million unemployed in UK don't you get?

- - - Updated - - -

it wants us to hate one another so that we work against our own interests. It needs mugs almost as much as it needs workers to exploit.

and your solution to that is what? ride the pink unicorn with a copy of Trotsky's famous works in your hand, yeah right

Overthrow capitalism. obviously. There is no other answer. And a mere three million unemployed in the UK (which we weren't discussing) is FAR too small a threat to hold down wages adequately, as well you know. You think WE control these matters do you, mug?

 

[J842P]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

Europe has done plenty of intervening in the Middle East.

 

[Canard DuJour]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

Quite some feat, being so wrong in so few words.

 

[Jokodo]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

There are many thousands of European ISIS militants (along with tens of thousands from other parts of the world) terrorising the local population in Syria and Iraq. Many of them are in actual positions of power. If anything, Europe is taking over the Middle East, and that's before we even talk about armies and bombing raids.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Europe is getting what it deserves. They did very little to intervene in the problems of the Middle East. Now the Middle East is taking over Europe.

You got it back to front. The US and Europe intervened and once again messed up; the rest is history.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The European capitalist countries desperately need young workers to pay pensions and so on, but the political ignorance encouraged by the system allows racist scumbags to work up hatred against them to get power. It was always so - Irish troops were used to shoot down 'Welsh' workers in Newport, 'Welsh' troops to oppose Irish independence, starving Irish to blackleg on British strikes and so on - that's how the system works: it wants us to hate one another so that we work against our own interests. It needs mugs almost as much as it needs workers to exploit.

What's the shooting of Welsh workers and Irish workers got to do with immigration.

 

[whichphilosophy]

How long before ordinary citizens feels they are sacrificing too much and jettison their current ideals?

Most people in the UK do not want these freeloading refugees, that's for sure - send em back to Africa/ME

We destroyed their countries infrastructure including creating wars for our own political reasons and then invited them in, what do you expect?