http://www.businessinsider.com/leo-the-homeless-coder-2014-5
The guy has made $10k in a few weeks--but he doesn't want to come in off the streets.
The guy has made $10k in a few weeks--but he doesn't want to come in off the streets.
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Why homelessness is hard to solve
- Thread starter Loren Pechtel
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Nope, I still don't get it.
Are you suggesting that most homeless people have skills that make them highly employable, they could make a few grand a week, but they choose not to?
bilby
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Obviously.
One data point that supports your prejudices is decisive evidence; a million data points that do not support your prejudices are probably outliers and should be ignored.
Under the Rose
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We have one local fellow who hangs out asking people for money, sincerely stating that it is for food, not drugs. He is usually quite presentable. One time I offered him some food instead of money and he declined. He still tries the "Ma'am, could you spare a bit of change?" gambit when he encounters me, but it is usually many months between meetings. He used to be a regular nuisance outside of our corporate grocery store and they even offered him a job to see if that might be a remedy.
This individual did not want a job. He was living the way he was by choice. Who can say why? Certainly, some people do not want to be part of 'the system' and if they are able to find alternate means of getting by, a percentage will opt to do so.
This individual did not want a job. He was living the way he was by choice. Who can say why? Certainly, some people do not want to be part of 'the system' and if they are able to find alternate means of getting by, a percentage will opt to do so.
gmbteach
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I think I can understand where the homeless guy is coming from. Before I continue, I will state that this is my brother and my opinion on my brother, not a generalised opinion.
My brother is paranoid about the government knowing anything about him. IMO the paranoia comes from having smoked too much weed for pretty much the last 30 years (he is 46). Up until about 5 years ago he refused to own a bank account, preferring to be paid in cash. He didn't submit a tax return for many a year, in fact I don't think he has ever filed one. Until a couple of years ago, he would drive, but didn't hold a drivers licence, until he was caught for driving without a licence. He was, and is, completely adverse to any sort of identification that could (in his words and mind) assist the government in locating him. He has all of his mail sent to our parents house. Nothing is ever delivered to his residence.
It is possible that the gentleman in the article may be of a similar mindset. Maybe he doesn't want to be 'found' and so prefers to live as he is.
Congrats on continuing to learn and develop, and maybe that will help him to ease back into society. Until then, it is his decision and who are we, as a society, to convince him otherwise?
My brother is paranoid about the government knowing anything about him. IMO the paranoia comes from having smoked too much weed for pretty much the last 30 years (he is 46). Up until about 5 years ago he refused to own a bank account, preferring to be paid in cash. He didn't submit a tax return for many a year, in fact I don't think he has ever filed one. Until a couple of years ago, he would drive, but didn't hold a drivers licence, until he was caught for driving without a licence. He was, and is, completely adverse to any sort of identification that could (in his words and mind) assist the government in locating him. He has all of his mail sent to our parents house. Nothing is ever delivered to his residence.
It is possible that the gentleman in the article may be of a similar mindset. Maybe he doesn't want to be 'found' and so prefers to live as he is.
Congrats on continuing to learn and develop, and maybe that will help him to ease back into society. Until then, it is his decision and who are we, as a society, to convince him otherwise?
What percentage of homeless people do you think choose to be homeless (even in the very broad tinfoil hat mental illness version of 'choose'), and what percentage are homeless but have not 'chosen' it?
gmbteach
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I wasn't prepared to assume that all homeless people think as my brother or the gentleman in the article may do. It was just a potential reason as to why SOME may choose to remain homeless.
I guess you could compare them to those convicted felons who have been incarcerated for an extended period of time not knowing how to be, or are fearful of being, productive members of society.
AthenaAwakened
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evidently so.
funinspace
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Homelessness is hard to reduce (it will never be “solved”) because there are a myriad of causes; and no one simpleton example will provide added clarity, but certainly can obfuscate the real issues at hand.
Interacting or working with homeless people, or people coming out of homelessness, tends to expand ones mind…
Interacting or working with homeless people, or people coming out of homelessness, tends to expand ones mind…
AthenaAwakened
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The problem isn't homelessness, it's houselessness. Home is mom baking pies and dad and uncle Joe practicing politics on the porch and grandma sneaking a nip from the sherry bottle. Thats home.
What people living outdoors need is an indoors to go to. And nothing is keeping us as society from providing shelter but the lack of will to give a shit about people.
What people living outdoors need is an indoors to go to. And nothing is keeping us as society from providing shelter but the lack of will to give a shit about people.
braces_for_impact
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As someone with some experience, this is the telling part of the article:
It's a complex issue because people are different and are homeless for different reasons. Some are homeless because of circumstances beyond their control, some because it is partially their fault, some because they are mentally ill. There's so many reasons. In this particular case, my gut says this guy may have had legal problems, and is thus either unable or unwilling to show identification. This doesn't make him a bad guy. There are many people that have made mistakes, spent a few years in jail and are now all but unemployable. It's hard to say what's actually going on from the article.
It's a complex issue because people are different and are homeless for different reasons. Some are homeless because of circumstances beyond their control, some because it is partially their fault, some because they are mentally ill. There's so many reasons. In this particular case, my gut says this guy may have had legal problems, and is thus either unable or unwilling to show identification. This doesn't make him a bad guy. There are many people that have made mistakes, spent a few years in jail and are now all but unemployable. It's hard to say what's actually going on from the article.
Nice Squirrel
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It's obvious that all homeless people should be forced to work and live in housing whether they want to or not. Because: Freedom demands they conform to what we expect.
Seriously, there are individuals who choose to be homeless. I see nothing wrong with that. I've lived out of the back of a pick-up truck for six months by choice. I will always cherish that time.
Seriously, there are individuals who choose to be homeless. I see nothing wrong with that. I've lived out of the back of a pick-up truck for six months by choice. I will always cherish that time.
Under the Rose
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Before too long, home ownership will be beyond the reach of most of the population and the best that many will be able to aspire to own is the mortgage. We are a profit driven society and most of our efforts get directed toward earning more profits, not to providing affordable shelter and food. Every step forward in technology is leaving ever more people disenfranchised when they cannot afford the fees attached to it's use. Many companies provide devices up front for no charge but they recoup their investment through use. I'm not sure if they would engage as a client, a person with no billing address or bank account. One cannot even have a bank account without fees unless they maintain a 'minimum balance' which at most institutions around here is $1,000.00.
Homeless people are not profitable, therefore no agency willingly will tackle the many associated problems save to pass more 'no loitering' legislation.
Malintent
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I would wager that one can find this answer by looking at the ratio between "pan handlers on the streets" and "shelter residents looking for a job".
Jimmy Higgins
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Pretty much whenever someone says the reason for a very complicated problem is a single thing, you can dismiss it and walk on your way.
The problem with global child hunger is kids don't want to eat their veggies. We have this kid with us who says he is hungry, but when we gave him a plate of spinach and radishes, he wouldn't eat it. There you go, global child hunger explained!
Jimmy Higgins
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Went to college in the big city. There you see the homeless homeless panhandlers. You can tell. Their beards just look homeless, their eyes look homeless, their expression looks homeless. In Akron you get these people at corners wearing boots that don't look a year old. They could be struggling, but looking at them, I don't get that pit of my stomach feel when I went to Chicago for a concert and saw an actual homeless man on the street.
Malintent
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.. I grouped being on the street "by choice" in with "being on the street due to mental illness". Your example in Chicago likely fits the latter category... This is what I am asserting in my last post.
In my neighborhood, homeless people are part of the environment. Although I am sympathetic toward their plight, I have to be realistic.
My property is on the corner of a busy street and offers lots of sheltered spots. This makes it attractive for overnight visitors, which is not so bad, but some homeless people have a nesting instinct. It starts with a cardboard pad and will grow into a sofa cushion cabana. This is very bad for business. Panhandlers in the parking lot is also very bad for business. I can't expect my customers to recognize the difference between a harmless homeless guy who asks for spare change and a purse snatcher.
While I do have sympathy, I have much less compassion than I once had. I no longer give them handouts or tolerate them sleeping on the property. I got to know quite a few of them and quickly understood I could not help them. Anything I did for them, just meant I had more of them around. They were a collection of alcoholics, drug addicts and mentally ill. There are shelters in this city, so they don't have to sleep on the street, the shelter will not take men who are drunk, high, or talking to their socks. There are people who make a conscious choice to be homeless. We don't consider this to be rational, but unless we are willing to incarcerate people and force them to accept treatment for their addictions and mental problems, there is little which can be done.
All of this is far beyond my resources and abilities. If I try to help them, it does them little good and diminishes my standard of living.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Good post Bronzeage.
"There are shelters in this city, so they don't have to sleep on the street, the shelter will not take men who are drunk, high, or talking to their socks." That's a rather interesting point. A rather telling one as well. I want to say drug legalization will help, but alcohol is already legal and you've included drunks in your description.
While it may be easy for some to say that the homeless are there by choice, it is more realistic to say they are there by choices they made. Sometimes a choice is made for instant gratification without regards for the consequences. If a person ruins ones life with alcohol, it can be said that the alcoholic made choices that led one to the street without saying that the alcoholic chose the street.
My own personal story involves when I first moved to the big city. I came from the suburbs of a smaller city in Georgia, and went to college right outside of New York City, across the river in East Orange, not too far from Newark. We had homeless there. College kids can be suckers for pleas for help, but only for so long before they get wise and realize that the help isn't helping.
I personally was one of the more "soft touch" types, more likely to help and more likely to want to help. To those who will object at that description, shut up because how I treat others is not in conflict with my opinions on how the government should treat them. If you think the two are in conflict that is because you don't know anything about what I believe in spite of posting on (some version of) this forum for year. Realizing that I was being had and was feeding an addiction, and not wanting to do that anymore, but also being easily moved by a sob-story, I came up with an innovative solution. I went down to the local McDonalds and purchased a pack of gift certificates.
Now some of you realize just how old I am. Back in the day, those gift certificates weren't plastic cards with values programmed in. They were literally certificates, a book of slips of paper, each slip having a value written on it. You could go to McDonalds and spend them like cash for the printed value on the coupon. And the next time the homeless asked me for a handout, I offered that booklet.
I got some interesting excuses. It seems many homeless are allergic to the ingredients in McDonalds food. Not just hamburgers, but apparently the whole entire menu. I offered it many times, I kept that book until I graduated.
"There are shelters in this city, so they don't have to sleep on the street, the shelter will not take men who are drunk, high, or talking to their socks." That's a rather interesting point. A rather telling one as well. I want to say drug legalization will help, but alcohol is already legal and you've included drunks in your description.
While it may be easy for some to say that the homeless are there by choice, it is more realistic to say they are there by choices they made. Sometimes a choice is made for instant gratification without regards for the consequences. If a person ruins ones life with alcohol, it can be said that the alcoholic made choices that led one to the street without saying that the alcoholic chose the street.
My own personal story involves when I first moved to the big city. I came from the suburbs of a smaller city in Georgia, and went to college right outside of New York City, across the river in East Orange, not too far from Newark. We had homeless there. College kids can be suckers for pleas for help, but only for so long before they get wise and realize that the help isn't helping.
I personally was one of the more "soft touch" types, more likely to help and more likely to want to help. To those who will object at that description, shut up because how I treat others is not in conflict with my opinions on how the government should treat them. If you think the two are in conflict that is because you don't know anything about what I believe in spite of posting on (some version of) this forum for year. Realizing that I was being had and was feeding an addiction, and not wanting to do that anymore, but also being easily moved by a sob-story, I came up with an innovative solution. I went down to the local McDonalds and purchased a pack of gift certificates.
Now some of you realize just how old I am. Back in the day, those gift certificates weren't plastic cards with values programmed in. They were literally certificates, a book of slips of paper, each slip having a value written on it. You could go to McDonalds and spend them like cash for the printed value on the coupon. And the next time the homeless asked me for a handout, I offered that booklet.
I got some interesting excuses. It seems many homeless are allergic to the ingredients in McDonalds food. Not just hamburgers, but apparently the whole entire menu. I offered it many times, I kept that book until I graduated.