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FOX: Australia has no freedom

 
 
 
Australia started out as a penal colony. As a consequence, we have very strict laws on almost everything; That which is not prohibited is mandatory.

Coming here from the UK as a young adult (and to Queensland, no less, which even other Aussie states looked down on as a totalitarian dictatorship under the iron fist of Joh Bjelke-Petersen), this did give me some pause. However on arrival here I discovered that Australians have a 100% effective solution for dictatorship - they ignore it.

Everything is illegal, and nobody cares, unless someone gets hurt.

A few years ago, I was part of a police community board on the Gold Coast, and we had a public meeting in which the senior policeman in charge of the Gold Coast Region took questions. One lady, who clearly felt that Stalin was a wishy-washy liberal, asked rather indignantly why police didn't crack down on public drinking (with a tiny handful of exceptions, it is illegal in Queensland to be in possession of an open container of alcoholic drink in a public place). The reply was that the Gold Coast is a tourist destination, hosting visitors from other states and other nations, here to have a good time; and that with the exception of Christmas Day, New Year, and Australia Day (on which occasions public drunkenness has in the past lead to rioting), police are instructed to ignore public drinking offences, unless other more serious offences are also occurring.

Basically, there are laws about almost everything; and nobody, up to and including the police, gives a shit about any of them, unless it makes sense to do so.

This shouldn't work; But it does. It is the essence of Australia - a wilful disregard for the authority of the law (in many cases even on the part of the police), combined with laws that (on paper) represent a totalitarian dystopia, results in a level of personal freedom unparalleled in the rest of the world.

The Americans appear to have the opposite situation - their laws enshrine maximum personal liberty, and even minor transgressions are cracked down on by the cops with the immediate threat, and frequent application, of lethal force.

Americans talk of liberty and encode it in their constitution and law, while having more police and more imprisoned citizens per capita* by far than Australia. Australians have a huge amount of actual liberty, but reading our laws would most certainly give the opposite impression.

Freedom cannot be obtained nor defended with any kind of physical weaponry; It comes from a state of mind. I don't defend my freedom with a gun; I defend it with my attitude. As, by and large, do my countrymen - even those who are police officers.















*USA has 348 police per 100,000 population, compared with 217 per 100,000 for Australia (source); USA has about 758 prisoners per 100,000 population, compared with 151 per 100,000 for Australia (source). The US incarceration rate may be understated as it excludes prisoners held in U.S. Territories, military facilities, in U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and in jails in Indian country.
 
Tigers! said:
Underseer said:
http://junkee.com/hey-fox-go-fuck-yourselves-xoxoxo-gossip-goat/66692

Question for the Australian forum members: what does it feel like to live in an authoritarian nightmare? Don't you wish you had as much freedom as we Americans? No wonder you are all so jealous of us!
Click to expand...

So that's the strange sensation I feel every time I read your posts. It's jealousy.

These fora are more authouritarian that Australia.
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You can't say that.

Report to your nearest reeducation camp, citizen.

You have no choice. You have no guns.

Mwahhahahaha!!!
 
bilby said:
Australia started out as a penal colony. As a consequence, we have very strict laws on almost everything; That which is not prohibited is mandatory.

Coming here from the UK as a young adult (and to Queensland, no less, which even other Aussie states looked down on as a totalitarian dictatorship under the iron fist of Joh Bjelke-Petersen), this did give me some pause. However on arrival here I discovered that Australians have a 100% effective solution for dictatorship - they ignore it.

Everything is illegal, and nobody cares, unless someone gets hurt.

A few years ago, I was part of a police community board on the Gold Coast, and we had a public meeting in which the senior policeman in charge of the Gold Coast Region took questions. One lady, who clearly felt that Stalin was a wishy-washy liberal, asked rather indignantly why police didn't crack down on public drinking (with a tiny handful of exceptions, it is illegal in Queensland to be in possession of an open container of alcoholic drink in a public place). The reply was that the Gold Coast is a tourist destination, hosting visitors from other states and other nations, here to have a good time; and that with the exception of Christmas Day, New Year, and Australia Day (on which occasions public drunkenness has in the past lead to rioting), police are instructed to ignore public drinking offences, unless other more serious offences are also occurring.

Basically, there are laws about almost everything; and nobody, up to and including the police, gives a shit about any of them, unless it makes sense to do so.

This shouldn't work; But it does. It is the essence of Australia - a wilful disregard for the authority of the law (in many cases even on the part of the police), combined with laws that (on paper) represent a totalitarian dystopia, results in a level of personal freedom unparalleled in the rest of the world.

The Americans appear to have the opposite situation - their laws enshrine maximum personal liberty, and even minor transgressions are cracked down on by the cops with the immediate threat, and frequent application, of lethal force.

Americans talk of liberty and encode it in their constitution and law, while having more police and more imprisoned citizens per capita* by far than Australia. Australians have a huge amount of actual liberty, but reading our laws would most certainly give the opposite impression.

Freedom cannot be obtained nor defended with any kind of physical weaponry; It comes from a state of mind. I don't defend my freedom with a gun; I defend it with my attitude. As, by and large, do my countrymen - even those who are police officers.















*USA has 348 police per 100,000 population, compared with 217 per 100,000 for Australia (source); USA has about 758 prisoners per 100,000 population, compared with 151 per 100,000 for Australia (source). The US incarceration rate may be understated as it excludes prisoners held in U.S. Territories, military facilities, in U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and in jails in Indian country.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that voting is mandatory or at least voting is some elections is mandatory. That's different than having an open can of beer on the sidewalk. How is that typically handled? Is not voting generally fined? Always?
 
joedad said:
bilby said:
Australia started out as a penal colony. As a consequence, we have very strict laws on almost everything; That which is not prohibited is mandatory.

Coming here from the UK as a young adult (and to Queensland, no less, which even other Aussie states looked down on as a totalitarian dictatorship under the iron fist of Joh Bjelke-Petersen), this did give me some pause. However on arrival here I discovered that Australians have a 100% effective solution for dictatorship - they ignore it.

Everything is illegal, and nobody cares, unless someone gets hurt.

A few years ago, I was part of a police community board on the Gold Coast, and we had a public meeting in which the senior policeman in charge of the Gold Coast Region took questions. One lady, who clearly felt that Stalin was a wishy-washy liberal, asked rather indignantly why police didn't crack down on public drinking (with a tiny handful of exceptions, it is illegal in Queensland to be in possession of an open container of alcoholic drink in a public place). The reply was that the Gold Coast is a tourist destination, hosting visitors from other states and other nations, here to have a good time; and that with the exception of Christmas Day, New Year, and Australia Day (on which occasions public drunkenness has in the past lead to rioting), police are instructed to ignore public drinking offences, unless other more serious offences are also occurring.

Basically, there are laws about almost everything; and nobody, up to and including the police, gives a shit about any of them, unless it makes sense to do so.

This shouldn't work; But it does. It is the essence of Australia - a wilful disregard for the authority of the law (in many cases even on the part of the police), combined with laws that (on paper) represent a totalitarian dystopia, results in a level of personal freedom unparalleled in the rest of the world.

The Americans appear to have the opposite situation - their laws enshrine maximum personal liberty, and even minor transgressions are cracked down on by the cops with the immediate threat, and frequent application, of lethal force.

Americans talk of liberty and encode it in their constitution and law, while having more police and more imprisoned citizens per capita* by far than Australia. Australians have a huge amount of actual liberty, but reading our laws would most certainly give the opposite impression.

Freedom cannot be obtained nor defended with any kind of physical weaponry; It comes from a state of mind. I don't defend my freedom with a gun; I defend it with my attitude. As, by and large, do my countrymen - even those who are police officers.















*USA has 348 police per 100,000 population, compared with 217 per 100,000 for Australia (source); USA has about 758 prisoners per 100,000 population, compared with 151 per 100,000 for Australia (source). The US incarceration rate may be understated as it excludes prisoners held in U.S. Territories, military facilities, in U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and in jails in Indian country.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that voting is mandatory or at least voting is some elections is mandatory. That's different than having an open can of beer on the sidewalk. How is that typically handled? Is not voting generally fined? Always?
Click to expand...

Voting is mandatory; but as it is a secret ballot, the effect of this is to make attendance at the polls, or submission of a postal vote paper, mandatory - if you leave the paper blank, or write in 'Mickey Mouse', or even drop it in the bin and not the ballot box, nobody knows, so no penalty can be applied.

Typically, the number of invalid (called 'informal' by the electoral commission) ballots is small; so most people choose to vote once they have gone to the trouble of having their name marked off on the roll.

Those whose names are not marked off as having voted are fined a small sum (I think it is about ten bucks); if you have a good reason to not vote, then the fine is waived.

Some people choose to pay the fine rather than turning up at a polling place. But not many. The fine is small, but it is easy to avoid it, even if you really don't want to vote.

Given that most people who would not turn out if it were optional do, when pressed, cast a valid ballot, I think the gain in genuinely democratic representation outweighs the minuscule loss of liberty. It's a few minutes, and happens on average about once a year.

It doesn't seem to be a major issue here; nobody is seriously campaigning against mandatory voting.

It started out as a way to prevent the bosses from putting pressure on their workers not to vote; so in some respects it may actually represent an increase in liberty.
 
bilby said:
Americans talk of liberty and encode it in their constitution and law, while having more police and more imprisoned citizens per capita* by far than Australia. Australians have a huge amount of actual liberty, but reading our laws would most certainly give the opposite impression.
Click to expand...

Since Australia is just one big prison your incarceration rate beats out America's, just barely, coming in at 100,000 per 100,000.

:p
 
bilby said:
joedad said:
It's my understanding that voting is mandatory or at least voting is some elections is mandatory. That's different than having an open can of beer on the sidewalk. How is that typically handled? Is not voting generally fined? Always?
Click to expand...

Voting is mandatory; but as it is a secret ballot, the effect of this is to make attendance at the polls, or submission of a postal vote paper, mandatory - if you leave the paper blank, or write in 'Mickey Mouse', or even drop it in the bin and not the ballot box, nobody knows, so no penalty can be applied.

Typically, the number of invalid (called 'informal' by the electoral commission) ballots is small; so most people choose to vote once they have gone to the trouble of having their name marked off on the roll.

Those whose names are not marked off as having voted are fined a small sum (I think it is about ten bucks); if you have a good reason to not vote, then the fine is waived.

Some people choose to pay the fine rather than turning up at a polling place. But not many. The fine is small, but it is easy to avoid it, even if you really don't want to vote.

Given that most people who would not turn out if it were optional do, when pressed, cast a valid ballot, I think the gain in genuinely democratic representation outweighs the minuscule loss of liberty. It's a few minutes, and happens on average about once a year.

It doesn't seem to be a major issue here; nobody is seriously campaigning against mandatory voting.

It started out as a way to prevent the bosses from putting pressure on their workers not to vote; so in some respects it may actually represent an increase in liberty.
Click to expand...

On this matter, as someone who forgot to vote one year, the fine is $85.

Considering that there are is a voting centre in every single small town, and most of them are at schools, it is very easy to vote. However, you can only vote if you are an Australian Citizen.

Being required to vote, I believe, puts more pressure on our pollies to actually do the right thing. It's not a matter of persuading the few like minded individuals to vote you in, but rather, ensure that you don't get 'voted out'!
 
ksen said:
bilby said:
Americans talk of liberty and encode it in their constitution and law, while having more police and more imprisoned citizens per capita* by far than Australia. Australians have a huge amount of actual liberty, but reading our laws would most certainly give the opposite impression.
Click to expand...

Since Australia is just one big prison your incarceration rate beats out America's, just barely, coming in at 100,000 per 100,000.

:p
Click to expand...

That USED to be the case. :D Not since about 1793 when the first free settlers arrived in Australia. And not for the 20000+ years before 1788 when the Aboriginal population lived here quite freely. :D
 
gmbteach said:
ksen said:
Since Australia is just one big prison your incarceration rate beats out America's, just barely, coming in at 100,000 per 100,000.

:p
Click to expand...

That USED to be the case. :D Not since about 1793 when the first free settlers arrived in Australia. And not for the 20000+ years before 1788 when the Aboriginal population lived here quite freely. :D
Click to expand...

Actually, I shall amend my statement, as not all the persons who arrived on the First Fleet were convicts. Some were the guards as well. Therefore, there has never been a time in Australian History where the country was occupied solely by prisoners.
 
There's only one thing that makes me never want to visit Australia:


latest



:eek:
 
JUNKEE is an appropriate name for the News Media which provided generalities regarding Australia (gun laws). Most democracies have gun laws.
Perhaps in this may explain it
http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/
In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans in homicides, suicides and unintentional shootings. This is the equivalent of more than 85 deaths each day and more than three deaths each hour.

There are also arguments in favour of owning a gun

See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Australia is shown to be a full democracy while America is a flawed democracy
Source (in WIKI) The Economist Intelligence Unit
 
gmbteach said:
Being required to vote, I believe, puts more pressure on our pollies to actually do the right thing. It's not a matter of persuading the few like minded individuals to vote you in, but rather, ensure that you don't get 'voted out'!
Click to expand...

Not getting 'voted out' means pollies will go for the lowest common denominator. Don't do anything and give voters some money. That's the only explanation I can think for the greatly lowered quality of pollies and their decisions in the last couple of decades.
 
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