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Sexism for Men and Women- Male Confidence

Factinista

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Atheism
Not sure where to put this so...

"Telling a man to be confident is the same as telling a woman to smile."


Many women report that one of the primary things they find attractive about a man is confidence. How is this not sexist in the same way as telling a woman to smile to be more attractive? It seems to me that many men have trouble being confident in certain situations and being a psychological aspect of their lives its not an easy thing to fix. Furthermore what is the appropriate context in which a man should be confident? It seems to me that those Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times are supremely confident in themselves, yet most people agree they are sexist pigs.

I'm not arguing that men have it worse than women, just that in the particular case of confidence that the sexism can go the other way.

Thoughts?
 
Feminism is about equality.

CpR7jLZWgAAiE_8.jpg
 
Not sure where to put this so...

"Telling a man to be confident is the same as telling a woman to smile."


Many women report that one of the primary things they find attractive about a man is confidence. How is this not sexist in the same way as telling a woman to smile to be more attractive? It seems to me that many men have trouble being confident in certain situations and being a psychological aspect of their lives its not an easy thing to fix. Furthermore what is the appropriate context in which a man should be confident? It seems to me that those Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times are supremely confident in themselves, yet most people agree they are sexist pigs.

I'm not arguing that men have it worse than women, just that in the particular case of confidence that the sexism can go the other way.

Thoughts?

One of the main differences I see in this comparison is that women get approached randomly and told to smile more. The confidence thing is more a response to a question.

Second, you can be confident without being an Alpha Douche. Moreover, Woody Allan didn't have any trouble pulling down trim, and his whole schtick is being neurotic.
 
firstly, men don't get strangers (that usually physically loom over them or end up following them for several blocks saying "hey baby, you should be confident more... c'mon, be confident for me... c'mon be confident for daddy... bitch, what's wrong with you!?"

secondly, "being confident" has myriad applications in life in a variety of contexts outside of "being appealing to women" so the statement isn't equivalent to "stop being less than optimally attractive to me" which is what "smile more" literally translates to.

thirdly, women do not get to exist outside of the context of their sexual appeal to men - not professionally, not personally, not privately. it's forced on them all day every day in ways most men don't bother to even be aware of, much less appreciate the significance of it. every woman regardless of the situation is in some way judged based on her sexual desirability.
the point of this is: when men are judged or objectified based on appearance or sexual characteristics this is a "sometimes" thing, and due to the nature of male sexuality it is usually perceived as a positive.
women are judged or objectified based on appearance or sexual characteristics more or less every second of every day, and due to the natural of female sexuality it usually perceived as a negative.
the conclusion of this being: objectification in small doses in certain contexts is fine, and despite your straw man attempts to negate their entire argument based on your inability to understand the argument, not even the most vile feminazi of your fevered imagination wants to truly destroy all objectification, but to counter how extreme it is towards women.

what trausti and all the other numb nuts around here lack the capacity to grasp is that "equality" entails starting from the same relative position, which despite your infantile and completely asinine attempts to spamfest this forum into thinking men and women are most certainly NOT in the same relative position socially or culturally when it comes to an individual's capacity to be seen or judged outside the context of their sexual appeal.
 
what trausti and all the other numb nuts around here lack the capacity to grasp is that "equality" entails starting from the same relative position, which despite your infantile and completely asinine attempts to spamfest this forum into thinking men and women are most certainly NOT in the same relative position socially or culturally when it comes to an individual's capacity to be seen or judged outside the context of their sexual appeal.

"All are equal but some are more equal than others." - got it. :thumbsup:
 
what trausti and all the other numb nuts around here lack the capacity to grasp is that "equality" entails starting from the same relative position, which despite your infantile and completely asinine attempts to spamfest this forum into thinking men and women are most certainly NOT in the same relative position socially or culturally when it comes to an individual's capacity to be seen or judged outside the context of their sexual appeal.

"All are equal but some are more equal than others." - got it. :thumbsup:

Who said 'all were equal"?
 
Not sure where to put this so...

"Telling a man to be confident is the same as telling a woman to smile."


Many women report that one of the primary things they find attractive about a man is confidence. How is this not sexist in the same way as telling a woman to smile to be more attractive? It seems to me that many men have trouble being confident in certain situations and being a psychological aspect of their lives its not an easy thing to fix. Furthermore what is the appropriate context in which a man should be confident? It seems to me that those Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times are supremely confident in themselves, yet most people agree they are sexist pigs.

I'm not arguing that men have it worse than women, just that in the particular case of confidence that the sexism can go the other way.

Thoughts?

I don't think it's sexist to tell men that women are attracted to confidence. Women are also told that men are attracted to confidence.

As well as:

big tits
a high, firm ass
long legs
shiny shiny hair, preferably blond and straight, with just a bit of controlled wave
blow jobs
anal
hand jobs
quickies
threesomes
porn
someone who can cook, clean, do laundry, do home repairs, will bear and care for his children if and when he wants them and then take care of them all by herself except for when he wants to take them to their little league games (assuming a winning season), while getting up all night with them, taking care of night time feeding, diapers, daycare, and simultaneously having your body and your libido spring back to first days of the relationship --and of course you will return to work full time before your maternity leave (assuming you have one) ends, so there is no hit to the household budget because hey, daycare and diapers are expensive and a man has needs!!
a sense of humor
clean, shiny white teeth
perfect skin
a tiny waist
an extensive knowledge of, appreciation for and tolerance of football and whatever other sport he likes or might like
confidence--but not too much because no man likes to have his fragile status in the world challenged. His home must be his refuge from the toils and troubles and tribulations of the world! So a woman should just confidently tend to all of the above and manage to get regular raises and promotions without lording it over him by mentioning these raises and promotions --maybe just the raise---and especially not letting any of this have any kind of negative impact on his life and his career goals or his hobbies or boy time or time with MOM.

And she should always, always be ready with a smile...

I realize I am not a man and I only know second hand what pressures a man faces. I know that is not the same thing as actually having to live with those pressures. But I know what fills women's magazines, entire sections of whatever kinds of news media/social media you care to ingest, as well as store isles, billboards, and walking down the fucking street.

Oh, here's this about what it's like to be a woman:

http://qz.com/762868/giving-up-alco...truth-about-why-women-drink/?utm_source=atlfb
The year before I get sober, I’m asked to be The Woman on a panel at the company where I work. (That was literally the pitch: “We need one woman.”) Three guys and me, talking to summer interns about company culture. There are two female interns in the audience, and when it’s time for questions, one says:

“I’ve heard this can be a tough place for women to succeed. Can you talk about what it’s been like for you?”

As The Woman, I assume for some reason that the question is directed at me. “If you’re tough and persistent and thick-skinned, you’ll find your way,” I say. “I have.”

I don’t say she’ll have to work around interruptions and invisibility and micro-aggressions and a scarcity of role models and a lifetime of her own conditioning. My job on this panel is to make this place sound good, so I leave some stuff out. Particularly the fact that I’m drinking at least one bottle of wine a night to dissolve the day off of me.

The year before I get sober, I’m asked to be The Woman on a panel at the company where I work. (That was literally the pitch: “We need one woman.”) Three guys and me, talking to summer interns about company culture. There are two female interns in the audience, and when it’s time for questions, one says:

“I’ve heard this can be a tough place for women to succeed. Can you talk about what it’s been like for you?”

As The Woman, I assume for some reason that the question is directed at me. “If you’re tough and persistent and thick-skinned, you’ll find your way,” I say. “I have.”

I don’t say she’ll have to work around interruptions and invisibility and micro-aggressions and a scarcity of role models and a lifetime of her own conditioning. My job on this panel is to make this place sound good, so I leave some stuff out. Particularly the fact that I’m drinking at least one bottle of wine a night to dissolve the day off of me.

“I disagree,” says the guy sitting next to me. “I think this is a great company for women.”

My jaw gently opens on its own.

The guy next to him nods. “Absolutely,” he said. “I have two women on my team and they get along great with everyone.”

Of course they do, I think but don’t say. It’s called camouflage.

Guy #1 continues. “There’s a woman on my team who had a baby last year. She went on maternity leave and came back, and she’s doing fine. We’re very supportive of moms.”

Guy #3 jumps in just to make sure we have 100% male coverage on the topic. “The thing about this place,” he says, “is it’s a meritocracy. And merit is gender-blind.” He smiles at me and I stare back. Silent balefulness is all I have to offer, but his smile wavers so I know I’ve pierced some level of smug.

The panel organizer and I fume afterward. “Those fucking fucks,” she says. “Ratfucks.”

What’s a girl to do when a bunch of dudes have just told her, in front of an audience, that she’s wrong about what it’s like to be herself? What’s a girl to do when a bunch of dudes have just told her, in front of an audience, that she’s wrong about what it’s like to be herself? I could talk to them, one by one, and tell them how it felt. I could tell the panel organizers this is why you never have just one of us up there. I could buy myself a superhero costume and devote the rest of my life to vengeance on mansplainers everywhere.

Instead, I round up some girlfriends and we spend hundreds of dollars in a hipster bar, drinking rye Manhattans and eating tapas and talking about the latest crappy, non-gender-blind things that have happened to us in meetings and on business trips and at performance review time. They toast me for taking one for the team. And when we are good and numb we Uber home, thinking Look at all we’ve earned! That bar with the twinkly lights. That miniature food. This chauffeured black car. We are tough enough to put up with being ignored and interrupted and underestimated every day and laugh it off together. We’ve made it. This is the good life. Nothing needs to change
 
Who do you people hang out with?

I've never encountered half this nonsense and the only time I've ever heard anyone - male or female - getting advice on how to be attractive to the opposite sex is when they've specifically asked for it (with the exception of this forum, of course, which has no shortage of people willing to ridicule anyone who isn't a perfect 10 with the attitude to match...)
 
Who do you people hang out with?

I've never encountered half this nonsense and the only time I've ever heard anyone - male or female - getting advice on how to be attractive to the opposite sex is when they've specifically asked for it (with the exception of this forum, of course, which has no shortage of people willing to ridicule anyone who isn't a perfect 10 with the attitude to match...)

Guess you don't read women's magazines?
 
Who do you people hang out with?

I've never encountered half this nonsense and the only time I've ever heard anyone - male or female - getting advice on how to be attractive to the opposite sex is when they've specifically asked for it (with the exception of this forum, of course, which has no shortage of people willing to ridicule anyone who isn't a perfect 10 with the attitude to match...)

Guess you don't read women's magazines?

No. I prefer my reality real.
 
Not sure where to put this so...

"Telling a man to be confident is the same as telling a woman to smile."


Many women report that one of the primary things they find attractive about a man is confidence. How is this not sexist in the same way as telling a woman to smile to be more attractive? It seems to me that many men have trouble being confident in certain situations and being a psychological aspect of their lives its not an easy thing to fix. Furthermore what is the appropriate context in which a man should be confident? It seems to me that those Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times are supremely confident in themselves, yet most people agree they are sexist pigs.

I'm not arguing that men have it worse than women, just that in the particular case of confidence that the sexism can go the other way.

Thoughts?

Confidence is an elephant waiting for the blind men. It means something different to everyone. It's also very easy to fake, or at least imitate the appearance of confidence. "Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times," are usually faking it. They do not expect any woman to turn around and offer her phone number.

The idea that women find confidence attractive is a cliche. If he is attractive, almost anything he does or says seems confident. Men who are not confident(in the real sense of the word) usually have good reasons.

Confidence is the internal sense that one can do the thing you are trying to do. What you choose to do, is the greatest factor in confidence. When I was younger, I could put one hand on the rail of a pick up truck and vault into the bed. I no longer have the confidence to do that.
 
Yeah, right, you've got random women approaching you and out of nowhere they tell you to be confident. Sure.
 
Not sure where to put this so...

"Telling a man to be confident is the same as telling a woman to smile."


Many women report that one of the primary things they find attractive about a man is confidence. How is this not sexist in the same way as telling a woman to smile to be more attractive? It seems to me that many men have trouble being confident in certain situations and being a psychological aspect of their lives its not an easy thing to fix. Furthermore what is the appropriate context in which a man should be confident? It seems to me that those Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times are supremely confident in themselves, yet most people agree they are sexist pigs.

I'm not arguing that men have it worse than women, just that in the particular case of confidence that the sexism can go the other way.

Thoughts?

Confidence is an elephant waiting for the blind men. It means something different to everyone. It's also very easy to fake, or at least imitate the appearance of confidence. "Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times," are usually faking it. They do not expect any woman to turn around and offer her phone number.

The idea that women find confidence attractive is a cliche. If he is attractive, almost anything he does or says seems confident. Men who are not confident(in the real sense of the word) usually have good reasons.

Confidence is the internal sense that one can do the thing you are trying to do. What you choose to do, is the greatest factor in confidence. When I was younger, I could put one hand on the rail of a pick up truck and vault into the bed. I no longer have the confidence to do that.

I'm thinking of a former coworker who is extremely attractive, very fit--he's a distance runner and avid biker. He's tall, dark haired with just a bit of salt sprinkled in, chiseled jaw: the whole thing. He's also very introverted. In fact to such an extent that it factored heavily in the demise of his brief marriage. He used to hang out at work to a kid her family and friends. Just too many people for him. He's a lot of things but not confident. Also does not have a line of women waiting for their shot.

On the other hand is someone I've known for a long time. Scrawny without being terribly fit, very...plain, loud, obnoxious, smart, an inveteret flirt--extremely confident and very succesful with the ladies.
 
Confidence is an elephant waiting for the blind men. It means something different to everyone. It's also very easy to fake, or at least imitate the appearance of confidence. "Alpha Male douchebag's who harass women on the streets and during inappropriate times," are usually faking it. They do not expect any woman to turn around and offer her phone number.

The idea that women find confidence attractive is a cliche. If he is attractive, almost anything he does or says seems confident. Men who are not confident(in the real sense of the word) usually have good reasons.

Confidence is the internal sense that one can do the thing you are trying to do. What you choose to do, is the greatest factor in confidence. When I was younger, I could put one hand on the rail of a pick up truck and vault into the bed. I no longer have the confidence to do that.

I'm thinking of a former coworker who is extremely attractive, very fit--he's a distance runner and avid biker. He's tall, dark haired with just a bit of salt sprinkled in, chiseled jaw: the whole thing. He's also very introverted. In fact to such an extent that it factored heavily in the demise of his brief marriage. He used to hang out at work to a kid her family and friends. Just too many people for him. He's a lot of things but not confident. Also does not have a line of women waiting for their shot.

On the other hand is someone I've known for a long time. Scrawny without being terribly fit, very...plain, loud, obnoxious, smart, an inveteret flirt--extremely confident and very succesful with the ladies.

As I said above confidence means many things to many people. An outgoing person appears confident, so in introverted person appears to lack confidence. The extrovert may actually lack confidence and this drives a constant need for approval. Thus, they are friendly and sociable.
The introvert may be the kind of person who does not need a lot of social connection and is confident to live without close relationships.

One of the main reasons women find confidence attractive in a man is the confident man is self assured and doesn't need constant reassurance from the woman. This frees up a lot of his time to pay attention to her. Another aspect of confidence is it makes a man less likely to feel threatened by things that bother an insecure man. This passes for courage, another attractive trait.

I am the oldest of four children, so I grew up with my parents assigning me responsibilities from a very young age, with their full confidence I could handle it all. I'm sure this is a determining factor in my personality and character.

A woman once told me that she thought I was cocky, a metaphor that compared me to a barnyard rooster that does nothing but strut and display his tail feathers for the hens. I replied, "Yes, I am cocky, but I make up for it with overwhelming charm."
 
Who do you people hang out with?

I've never encountered half this nonsense and the only time I've ever heard anyone - male or female - getting advice on how to be attractive to the opposite sex is when they've specifically asked for it (with the exception of this forum, of course, which has no shortage of people willing to ridicule anyone who isn't a perfect 10 with the attitude to match...)
as a general rule (not exclusively) it's the kind of shit that happens the most to either the exceptionally attractive or the exceptionally ugly, so my knee-jerk thought to your post is that you and the people you hang out with are neither of those things.

i know a young woman who is astonishingly beautiful (if you like the young, slender, tall, with delicate features waifish look) and has random people on the street or in a grocery store or wherever come up to her and hit on her, badger her, touch her, grind on her, etc, all the time.
i'm also very good friends with someone who is lightspeed ugly and she gets just as much random strangers talking to her, except they berate her for her looks. i've been out with her to the movies and some 30-something looking guy yelled "fat bitch!" at her from across a parking lot, i couldn't believe it. i've also seen men walk up to her and say "you should smile more" and then just walk off like they just taught a valuable life lesson.
 
Who do you people hang out with?

I've never encountered half this nonsense and the only time I've ever heard anyone - male or female - getting advice on how to be attractive to the opposite sex is when they've specifically asked for it (with the exception of this forum, of course, which has no shortage of people willing to ridicule anyone who isn't a perfect 10 with the attitude to match...)
as a general rule (not exclusively) it's the kind of shit that happens the most to either the exceptionally attractive or the exceptionally ugly, so my knee-jerk thought to your post is that you and the people you hang out with are neither of those things.

i know a young woman who is astonishingly beautiful (if you like the young, slender, tall, with delicate features waifish look) and has random people on the street or in a grocery store or wherever come up to her and hit on her, badger her, touch her, grind on her, etc, all the time.
i'm also very good friends with someone who is lightspeed ugly and she gets just as much random strangers talking to her, except they berate her for her looks. i've been out with her to the movies and some 30-something looking guy yelled "fat bitch!" at her from across a parking lot, i couldn't believe it. i've also seen men walk up to her and say "you should smile more" and then just walk off like they just taught a valuable life lesson.

As someone who, on her very best day would be considered by most to be somewhere between very average/leaning plain to absolutely forgettable, I can assure you that the incidents described happen to women of all sizes, shapes and degrees of attractiveness.
 
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