Where is Bernie Goetz when you need him?

[Derec]

Teens Commandeer BART Train In Violent Takeover Robbery Of Passengers

Passengers on a Bay Area Rapid Transit train were robbed, and in some cases beaten, when dozens of juveniles stormed aboard the train and forced them to give up their property, police said.
[..]
BART Police said witnesses reported 50 to 60 juveniles jumping the fare gates and going to the platform. After boarding the train, the juveniles “committed multiple strongarm robberies of bags and cell phones,” according to a police report.
At least two people were hurt and were treated by paramedics for facial and head injuries.
[..]
The agency was in the process of gathering security camera footage of the suspects, but will not release it to the public as the suspects are all juveniles. “We are basically getting all the surveillance images that we have, and we’re going to be sharing them with Oakland Police, the schools, Oakland Housing Authority to try to identify the suspects,” said Trost.

Had a few of the young thugs been shot, the rest of them would have fled and hopefully thought about their life choices.
As it stands now, it is questionable they will ever be caught, which would embolden them to try it again.

 

[untermensche]

These gangs are a reflection of the economics of their upbringing.

These are the unneeded and unwanted of capitalism.

Yes.

Let's not rid ourselves of this forever through economic programs.

Let's shoot somebody.

 

[Opoponax]

The problem with a Bernie Goetz type situation is that in the situation described, innocent people are just as likely to get shot. At such close range, even a bullet from a pistol is likely punch right through one person and go into another. Hit a rib or the spine and it could bank and hit almost anyone as it exits the body. Of course, if one uses hollow tips, then the problem diminishes as hollow tipped bullets are built to essentially shatter into various parts of the body without exiting. That's why you use those in home defense and not solid body rounds.

Getting ready to get hated in 3, 2, 1...

I'm a believer in gun ownership and I'm a believer in concealed carry where it can be justified. But I also know that mandatory training isn't required, unless you're allowed a concealed carry permit. It's asinine.

I bought a new 45-70 a few months back, and as I was waiting to pick it up, some woman was next to me getting ready to pick up a Glock G21, which is a .45 caliber pistol. I asked her if she'd taken the handgun class at the shop where we were. She said no. I then asked if she'd ever fired a pistol that was such a heavy caliber. She said no. She said she just wanted it to have in her purse "just in case." She's a walking fucking disaster waiting to happen. I suggested she take the class at Bass Pro, but it was apparent she had no plans to do so.

So what would you get in a train car full of people like that woman? Most wouldn't do anything with their guns (which would subsequently be stolen) and the rest would start firing indiscriminately.

Were reality such that the same training be required to own a handgun as it is for concealed carry, then okay, I can begin to see some kind of reasoned justification. But that isn't going to happen because it absolutely will be seen as a restriction on gun ownership and SCOTUS would eventually rule it to be just that (thanks 3rd party voters!).

 

[repoman]

Black Vikings?

Pretty cool!

 

[Toni]

Teens Commandeer BART Train In Violent Takeover Robbery Of Passengers

Passengers on a Bay Area Rapid Transit train were robbed, and in some cases beaten, when dozens of juveniles stormed aboard the train and forced them to give up their property, police said.
[..]
BART Police said witnesses reported 50 to 60 juveniles jumping the fare gates and going to the platform. After boarding the train, the juveniles “committed multiple strongarm robberies of bags and cell phones,” according to a police report.
At least two people were hurt and were treated by paramedics for facial and head injuries.
[..]
The agency was in the process of gathering security camera footage of the suspects, but will not release it to the public as the suspects are all juveniles. “We are basically getting all the surveillance images that we have, and we’re going to be sharing them with Oakland Police, the schools, Oakland Housing Authority to try to identify the suspects,” said Trost.

Had a few of the young thugs been shot, the rest of them would have fled and hopefully thought about their life choices.
As it stands now, it is questionable they will ever be caught, which would embolden them to try it again.

I seriously do not understand what is wrong with you that makes you leap upon the questionable solution of shooting black kids.

Whatever it is is worse than kids robbing people on the BART.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

50 - 60 juveniles committing a swarm attack on a train is unacceptable. Where were the police? Obviously, this was planned. It is crap like this that makes people want to carry, and gets people shot.

 

[whichphilosophy]

These gangs are a reflection of the economics of their upbringing.

These are the unneeded and unwanted of capitalism.

Yes.

Let's not rid ourselves of this forever through economic programs.

Let's shoot somebody.

There are better ways to redistribute wealth you know.
However I don't think that their actions can be an excuse for capitalism.

 

[untermensche]

These gangs are a reflection of the economics of their upbringing.

These are the unneeded and unwanted of capitalism.

Yes.

Let's not rid ourselves of this forever through economic programs.

Let's shoot somebody.

There are better ways to redistribute wealth you know.
However I don't think that their actions can be an excuse for capitalism.

In the US rich people drop bombs on Muslims half way across the planet. They exploit and lie and are destroying the entire planet.

Poor people do what they can.

Both rich and poor are the problem. As they always have been.

Let's force the rich to help us with the problem of the poor.

It is the only same solution.

 

[thebeave]

Teens Commandeer BART Train In Violent Takeover Robbery Of Passengers


Had a few of the young thugs been shot, the rest of them would have fled and hopefully thought about their life choices.
As it stands now, it is questionable they will ever be caught, which would embolden them to try it again.

I seriously do not understand what is wrong with you that makes you leap upon the questionable solution of shooting black kids.

Whatever it is is worse than kids robbing people on the BART.

Where did it say they were blacks kids? Sounds like you're doing some rather unfair racial profiling there.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

I'm a believer in gun ownership and I'm a believer in concealed carry where it can be justified. But I also know that mandatory training isn't required, unless you're allowed a concealed carry permit. It's asinine.

In most jurisdictions training isn't required to get a conceal and carry permit. Thanks NRA!

- - - Updated - - -

50 - 60 juveniles committing a swarm attack on a train is unacceptable. Where were the police? Obviously, this was planned. It is crap like this that makes people want to carry, and gets people shot.

TBH that many kids aren't going to keep quiet about this. The organizers will face punishment.

 

[untermensche]

TBH that many kids aren't going to keep quiet about this. The organizers will face punishment.

Let's just say somebody will be punished. Like the Central Park 5.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

TBH that many kids aren't going to keep quiet about this. The organizers will face punishment.

Let's just say somebody will be punished. Like the Central Park 5.

Let's hope not. If 50-60 kids were involved there is probably a social media footprint.

 

[laughing dog]

Bernie Goetz - acquitted killer and a drug dealer - is more likely to have been part of the swarm rather than part of the solution.

 

[dismal]

These gangs are a reflection of the economics of their upbringing.

These are the unneeded and unwanted of capitalism.

Yes.

Let's not rid ourselves of this forever through economic programs.

Let's shoot somebody.

And thus we continue untermensche's parade of apologetics for violent antisocial behavior.

 

[untermensche]

These gangs are a reflection of the economics of their upbringing.

These are the unneeded and unwanted of capitalism.

Yes.

Let's not rid ourselves of this forever through economic programs.

Let's shoot somebody.

And thus we continue untermensche's parade of apologetics for violent antisocial behavior.

I wish there were some apologetics for all the antisocial behavior from the rich.

But these ghettos created by being the unwanted from capitalism are real.

And they have real human effects.

Blaming the victims might make some feel better but it will not make the situation any better.

 

[Malintent]

And thus we continue untermensche's parade of apologetics for violent antisocial behavior.

I wish there were some apologetics for all the antisocial behavior from the rich.

But these ghettos created by being the unwanted from capitalism are real.

And they have real human effects.

Blaming the victims might make some feel better but it will not make the situation any better.

so when a violent theft occurs, it is the assailant that is the victim? Put this one in the "Inappropriate Victim Blaming claim" pile where my hobbyhorse can keep an eye on them.

 

[untermensche]

I wish there were some apologetics for all the antisocial behavior from the rich.

But these ghettos created by being the unwanted from capitalism are real.

And they have real human effects.

Blaming the victims might make some feel better but it will not make the situation any better.

so when a violent theft occurs, it is the assailant that is the victim? Put this one in the "Inappropriate Victim Blaming claim" pile where my hobbyhorse can keep an eye on them.

We are all victims of the system that sees some as unworthy of full opportunity.

Once the violent behavior is there you have to try to contain it.

But there is a bigger picture and two possible futures. One where we try to give all people the same opportunities, which mean increasing opportunity for those raised in economic hardship. A color blind system based on economic history.

Or more of the same forever.

 

[Derec]

I seriously do not understand what is wrong with you that makes you leap upon the questionable solution of shooting black kids.

- where does it say they were black? The article doesn't say.
- when a mob of 50-60 teenagers ("kids" is a misnomer, even if they are slightly under 18) attacks people, they should be able to defend themselves.
- where was BART police?

Whatever it is is worse than kids robbing people on the BART.

I disagree. You makes your choice, you takes your chances. The innocent, fare-paying riders of BART should not have to take risks to life, limb and property just to not endanger some criminals.

 

[Derec]

Bernie Goetz - acquitted killer and a drug dealer - is more likely to have been part of the swarm rather than part of the solution.

Really? When has he ever shown any tendency to rob people on trains? He is also not a drug dealer. Not a killer either, as all the people he shot survived, and only one was even seriously injured. All of them, except the paralyzed Cobey, went on to continue the life of crime btw. I guess not even getting shot learned them.
Goetz was an electronics engineer who was previously mugged in NYC, injured, and the police/DA slapped the perps on the wrist. Then he armed himself, and next time some thugs tried to rob him, he gave them some lead.

 

[repoman]

Goetz was a mixed bagged, Derec.

To me this is about lack of policing and also lack of social support (have you seen what a disaster NYC was in 70s and 80s?) for those teens - not to excuse their actions. This was a case where both the right and left had good points.


This world has a limited amount of resources produced at any one time. At the top are the people in control, politically and/or financially get a huge amount of the pie. The Shrinking middle get an ok amount and the poor get crumbs or have programs keep them afloat.

The real losers are the plants and animals that we are just killing (directly or through loss of habitat) for our stuff that doesn't even make us happy. And also our descendants consigned to a Mad Max future.


At any rate Jordan Peterson, the professor that the alt-right mistakenly thinks agrees with them, has interesting insights into relative poverty and young male violence. This has much more to do with what happened in Oakland (if the kids were black) than any race based effect could have.