So how does Miscarriage fit into god's master plan?

[LordKiran]

So some have told me that there is a god in heaven watching over us on planet Earth. They have told me that he is all powerful and all knowing, and what's more; They have told me that he has a master plan that includes every person whom has ever been, is, or will be. Now Presumably this includes the unborn, which these same people insist are of equal worth to you or I in terms of human life.

Now depending on whom you ask, around 15-20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, which god (either through intentionally designing the human body to have this defect, or (through his own Acedia) actively chooses to do nothing to prevent it) has caused.


So does god's plan include infanticide?

Or is the concept that god has any kind of plan just a bullshit story we tell ourselves because it's comforting to think your life has a semblance of divine structure and meaning?

Decisions, decisions...

 

[sharon45]

If there really is a god, then it should be in complete control over everything, including the killing of a fetus.

 

[LordKiran]

If there really is a god, then it should be in complete control over everything, including the killing of a fetus.

Say the word, Sharon: Baby!

 

[bilby]

I thought Miscarriage was a big wheel in the Church of Scientology...

 

[LordKiran]

I thought Miscarriage was a big wheel in the Church of Scientology...

It's actually Miss Carriage, who ironically was married five times and has twenty-odd kids.

 

[Learner]

So some have told me that there is a god in heaven watching over us on planet Earth. They have told me that he is all powerful and all knowing, and what's more; They have told me that he has a master plan that includes every person whom has ever been, is, or will be. Now Presumably this includes the unborn, which these same people insist are of equal worth to you or I in terms of human life.

Thats the gist of it LK.

Now depending on whom you ask, around 15-20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, which god (either through intentionally designing the human body to have this defect, or (through his own Acedia) actively chooses to do nothing to prevent it) has caused.

That would leave 80% of pregnancies somehow being incredibly lucky since man set foot on the earth, which imo should really suggest that the human body is not quite so seemingly "normal" a defective here as it may seem for example some of the various reasons more or less is according to medical study due to:

Chromosomes (probably due to the following)
Exposures to Radiation and microwaves
Harmful chemicals
poor diet, or malnutrition
drug and alcohol use
advanced maternal age
untreated thyroid disease
uncontrolled diabetes
infections
trauma
obesity
problems with the cervix
abnormally shaped womb
severe high blood pressure
food poisoning
certain medications.

So does god's plan include infanticide?

Gods plan according to the faith as I understand it; is not "the plan" to cause infanticide but rather the plan is to include those those who are victims of infanticide to go straight to the pearly gates and in.

Or is the concept that god has any kind of plan just a bullshit story we tell ourselves because it's comforting to think your life has a semblance of divine structure and meaning?

Decisions, decisions...

I've made my decision on who's version of the bible I'll go with.

 

[LordKiran]

Thats the gist of it LK.

Now depending on whom you ask, around 15-20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, which god (either through intentionally designing the human body to have this defect, or (through his own Acedia) actively chooses to do nothing to prevent it) has caused.

That would leave 80% of pregnancies somehow being incredibly lucky since man set foot on the earth, which imo should really suggest that the human body is not quite so seemingly "normal" a defective here as it may seem for example some of the various reasons more or less is according to medical study due to:

Chromosomes (probably due to the following)
Exposures to Radiation and microwaves
Harmful chemicals
poor diet, or malnutrition
drug and alcohol use
advanced maternal age
untreated thyroid disease
uncontrolled diabetes
infections
trauma
obesity
problems with the cervix
abnormally shaped womb
severe high blood pressure
food poisoning
certain medications.

So does god's plan include infanticide?

Gods plan according to the faith as I understand it; is not "the plan" to cause infanticide but rather the plan is to include those those who are victims of infanticide to go straight to the pearly gates and in.

Or is the concept that god has any kind of plan just a bullshit story we tell ourselves because it's comforting to think your life has a semblance of divine structure and meaning?

Decisions, decisions...

I've made my decision on who's version of the bible I'll go with.

So here's a general list of primary causes in Miscarriages:
Infection.
Medical conditions in the mother, such as diabetes or thyroid disease.
Hormone problems.
Immune system responses.
Physical problems in the mother.
Uterine abnormalities.

Now presumably you are a proponant of intelligent design, to which some of these can be considered related. So is god responsible for the dead unborn due to glitches in our systems which he failed to correct? Or is god merely responsible because he has the power to stop it from happening but actively chooses not to (Acedia)?

Why is god all knowing enough to include a stillborn baby in his heaven, but not powerful enough to save the life of an innocent so that it is not robbed of its earthly experience?

Why is it acceptable for god to kill children with his sloppy craftsmanship or his idle evil?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Gods plan according to the faith as I understand it; is not "the plan" to cause infanticide but rather the plan is to include those those who are victims of infanticide to go straight to the pearly gates and in. .

But that's not applicable for this discussion. The Bible states that one does not get a soul until they take their first breath.
Abortions, miscarriage and stillborn babies never take that first breath, so they never get God's breath that turns the dross biochemical construct into something that's alive.

Biblically, anything before the Doc slaps their ass and starts the breathing is not a big concern. It may be animate, but it's not really 'alive.'

 

[PyramidHead]

So does god's plan include infanticide?

Gods plan according to the faith as I understand it; is not "the plan" to cause infanticide but rather the plan is to include those those who are victims of infanticide to go straight to the pearly gates and in.

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

 

[SLD]

I've heard one Christian respond that God makes everything turn out right for them in other ways. Perhaps they get to come back to earth in more appropriate forms, or to other planets, or get to be immediately admitted to heaven.

You can always make evil come out right in the end, when there is no end but eternal life.

SLD

 

[LordKiran]

I've heard one Christian respond that God makes everything turn out right for them in other ways. Perhaps they get to come back to earth in more appropriate forms, or to other planets, or get to be immediately admitted to heaven.

You can always make evil come out right in the end, when there is no end but eternal life.

SLD

So why does that only work if the baby is stillborn? Presumably god is a prissy little bitch and doesn't like aborted babies?

 

[sharon45]

Gods plan according to the faith as I understand it; is not "the plan" to cause infanticide but rather the plan is to include those those who are victims of infanticide to go straight to the pearly gates and in.

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

Logically, the Christian god should be happy with this, but Christian belief dictates that it is because we are all supposed to have free will to choose.

 

[sharon45]

I've heard one Christian respond that God makes everything turn out right for them in other ways. Perhaps they get to come back to earth in more appropriate forms, or to other planets, or get to be immediately admitted to heaven.

You can always make evil come out right in the end, when there is no end but eternal life.

SLD

So why does that only work if the baby is stillborn? Presumably god is a prissy little bitch and doesn't like aborted babies?

Based on Christian belief, yet there is no honest passage in the Bible that supports this idea concerning abortion.

 

[Learner]

So here's a general list of primary causes in Miscarriages:
Infection.
Medical conditions in the mother, such as diabetes or thyroid disease.
Hormone problems.
Immune system responses.
Physical problems in the mother.
Uterine abnormalities.

Now presumably you are a proponant of intelligent design, to which some of these can be considered related. So is god responsible for the dead unborn due to glitches in our systems which he failed to correct? Or is god merely responsible because he has the power to stop it from happening but actively chooses not to (Acedia)?

Why is god all knowing enough to include a stillborn baby in his heaven, but not powerful enough to save the life of an innocent so that it is not robbed of its earthly experience?

Why is it acceptable for god to kill children with his sloppy craftsmanship or his idle evil?

Your list does gives the impression of the human anatomy a somewhat misleading impression of a (using the term) - "flawed design". In my list post #6. I include hazardous influential causes that could bring about your list of causes in the first place.

This then gives the impression that it is "we" who are responsible by how we choose to live it is "we who gets "sloppy" now and then. Im pretty sure many non believers think this.

 

[Learner]

But that's not applicable for this discussion. The Bible states that one does not get a soul until they take their first breath.
Abortions, miscarriage and stillborn babies never take that first breath, so they never get God's breath that turns the dross biochemical construct into something that's alive.

Biblically, anything before the Doc slaps their ass and starts the breathing is not a big concern. It may be animate, but it's not really 'alive.'

God breathed LIFE is how I read ... IS that very initial sparking stage before the baby starts developing or starts breathing air. If God says as according to the bible , He knew every individual before they were born ... It does seem to me then a soul would be appointed to the new life in the womb.
(others could use better wording me)

 

[sharon45]

So here's a general list of primary causes in Miscarriages:
Infection.
Medical conditions in the mother, such as diabetes or thyroid disease.
Hormone problems.
Immune system responses.
Physical problems in the mother.
Uterine abnormalities.

Now presumably you are a proponant of intelligent design, to which some of these can be considered related. So is god responsible for the dead unborn due to glitches in our systems which he failed to correct? Or is god merely responsible because he has the power to stop it from happening but actively chooses not to (Acedia)?

Why is god all knowing enough to include a stillborn baby in his heaven, but not powerful enough to save the life of an innocent so that it is not robbed of its earthly experience?

Why is it acceptable for god to kill children with his sloppy craftsmanship or his idle evil?

Your list does gives the impression of the human anatomy a somewhat misleading impression of a (using the term) - "flawed design". In my list post #6. I include hazardous influential causes that could bring about your list of causes in the first place.

This then gives the impression that it is "we" who are responsible by how we choose to live it is "we who gets "sloppy" now and then. Im pretty sure many non believers think this.

And yours tries to give an impression like we are somehow disconnected from a god's willful design. Since Christians assert that a god supposedly created us, this would mean he purposely made us so-called sloppy. Of course, some more than others, and all with his own sincere approval.

 

[Learner]

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

It wouldn't make sense, there'd be NO human race.

 

[sharon45]

But that's not applicable for this discussion. The Bible states that one does not get a soul until they take their first breath.
Abortions, miscarriage and stillborn babies never take that first breath, so they never get God's breath that turns the dross biochemical construct into something that's alive.

Biblically, anything before the Doc slaps their ass and starts the breathing is not a big concern. It may be animate, but it's not really 'alive.'

God breathed LIFE is how I read ... IS that very initial sparking stage before the baby starts developing or starts breathing air. If God says as according to the bible , He knew every individual before they were born ...

He would have to, in order to make certain everyone was created with a degree of sloppiness inside.

It does seem to me then a soul would be appointed to the new life in the womb.
(others could use better wording me)

Especially when the soul is a crooked notion from outside sources.

 

[sharon45]

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

It wouldn't make sense, there'd be NO human race.

Obviously, but then these sloppy parents would know that their children were now going to be occupying a completely better place in Heaven for all of eternity.

 

[Learner]

He would have to, in order to make certain everyone was created with a degree of sloppiness inside.

Lol .. Well with that notion ... thank God we also have common-sense in the mix ... how much one uses it is another thing.
(also goes for your post # 16)