So how does Miscarriage fit into god's master plan?

[sharon45]

He would have to, in order to make certain everyone was created with a degree of sloppiness inside.

Lol .. Well with that notion ... thank God we also have common-sense in the mix ... how much one uses it is another thing.
(also goes for your post # 16)

Common sense is merely groupthink for good and/or bad. Far from wisdom, which is highly uncommon. So exceptionally rare, that even the Christian god sorely missed out of a serving.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

It wouldn't make sense, there'd be NO human race.

Why is having a human race more important than sending everybody to heaven? Why is having a human race important at all?

 

[Keith&Co.]

God breathed LIFE is how I read ... IS that very initial sparking stage before the baby starts developing or starts breathing air.

Well, you just demonstrate that anyone can find anything that they already believe in the books if they want to. IN several places, they make it clear that breathing is life. That is exactly when God turns the dust into a person. Not before.
And the final breath going out is when the dust returns to dust. They say this at every funeral.

If God says as according to the bible , He knew every individual before they were born ... It does seem to me then a soul would be appointed to the new life in the womb.

That's you adding to the scripture, though. It still just says that life BEGINS at the first breath. The soul may preexist the birth. That's the usual explanation, anyway. Whether life begins at conception or birth, the believe is usually that that's when the soul is attached to the body, not what creates is.

But this is why there were no butterflies on the Ark. They don't breathe through nostrils, so they're not 'alive,' in the view of the biblical authors. Noah only saved the living creatures. As god directed.

Your definition of 'life' is a bit different from the OT authors' traditions.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Why is having a human race more important than sending everybody to heaven? Why is having a human race important at all?

If sending people to Heaven was a high priority, God could just create people in Heaven.
But if everyone was in Heaven, it wouldn't be special. God has to have some people in Hell in order for the Chosen to feel special about their status.

 

[PyramidHead]

Why is having a human race more important than sending everybody to heaven? Why is having a human race important at all?

If sending people to Heaven was a high priority, God could just create people in Heaven.
But if everyone was in Heaven, it wouldn't be special. God has to have some people in Hell in order for the Chosen to feel special about their status.

Fuck God's priorities. Regardless of what he wants, why not just hack the system and get everybody into heaven, no more human race, no more need for Hell? Although I think you're onto something, wasn't it Augustine who depicted the saved looking down on the damned with glee as they roasted for eternity?

 

[ideologyhunter]

I believe there is a special category of intrauterine sin that the fetus can commit. Few churches are brave enough to even speculate on this. The fetus has agency and intent and can commit sins of both omission and commission. God knows they can masturbate as soon as they have hands. The Vatican is said to have studied this in secret conventions of bishops -- so when will the findings be made public? Why should there be any people allowed to sin without penalty? Have we forgotten that at the moment of conception, the fertilized egg has a soul, the burden of original sin, a predisposition to masturbate, and, in America, a provisional SSN? Why have we ignored the findings of the Convention of Padua, that certain fetuses recoil and kick vigorously when Papal mass recordings are played for them? That can't be good.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Although I think you're onto something, wasn't it Augustine who depicted the saved looking down on the damned with glee as they roasted for eternity?

That's my experience. Many of the faithful have talked to me for five minutes about how wonderful Heaven is ("It's paradise. Details to be filled in later.") and then spend half an hour on how they'll find a cloud where they can watch the atheists and abortionists and evolutionists and kneelers and draft dodgers and Hillary and (fill-in-the-offender)s burning in the fiery lake.
Just something about that fiery lake seems to be a big draw for the afterlife tourist.

 

[sharon45]

Although I think you're onto something, wasn't it Augustine who depicted the saved looking down on the damned with glee as they roasted for eternity?

That's my experience. Many of the faithful have talked to me for five minutes about how wonderful Heaven is ("It's paradise. Details to be filled in later.") and then spend half an hour on how they'll find a cloud where they can watch the atheists and abortionists and evolutionists and kneelers and draft dodgers and Hillary and (fill-in-the-offender)s burning in the fiery lake.
Just something about that fiery lake seems to be a big draw for the afterlife tourist.

Hey, I thought that the Christian god was a jealous god, so shouldn't he be the only real draw around Heaven?

 

[Learner]

Common sense is merely groupthink for good and/or bad. Far from wisdom, which is highly uncommon. So exceptionally rare, that even the Christian god sorely missed out of a serving.

Wisdom is gained/aquired but would be far from individuals not using common sense ... not listening and learning which unfortunately is where "sloppy" comes in again in discussion. The old saying,"the older you are the wiser one gets", which thinking about it now - God is older than the oldest of wise men.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Oprah's headed to heaven. She said so. She'll suck all the holy oxygen away from Jehovah. Trust me, her arrival: ..."O Lord, what dost thou.....OPRAH....It's OPRAH!!!!!!!"

 

[sharon45]

Common sense is merely groupthink for good and/or bad. Far from wisdom, which is highly uncommon. So exceptionally rare, that even the Christian god sorely missed out of a serving.

Wisdom is gained/aquired but would be far from individuals not using common sense

No, wisdom is always free to anyone, but dismissed and rejected by the arrogant.

... not listening and learning which unfortunately is where "sloppy" comes in again in discussion.

Hence why the cocky Jesus hated wisdom.

The old saying,"the older you are the wiser one gets", which thinking about it now - God is older than the oldest of wise men.

Age has nothing to do with it, especially in the case of a fancied god. It is about being truly humble.

 

[Keith&Co.]

God is older than the oldest of wise men.

Are you sure?
Several apologists have claimed that their skybuddy is not subject to time. He's free from the problem of cause and effect, for example, because He's outside of time. He sees the future because, to him, everything is part of an instant now.

Or so they tell me...

Which means God can't be older than any wise man, or even older than a new-born. Can't age if there's no time.

 

[OLDMAN]

I'll ask this again since I didn't get a straight answer the last time: why aren't we painlessly euthanizing all newborns, if doing so would result in them experiencing bliss for all eternity, compared to slogging around in this dump for 60-70 years and very likely ending up in Hell?

Logically, the Christian god should be happy with this, but Christian belief dictates that it is because we are all supposed to have free will to choose.

Didn't Satan come from heaven? Didn't stop him from choosing not to follow god. The whole free will thing hinges on faith, but clearly Satan knew about god and choose differently. We should all be given a Damascus moment, and then decide.

 

[sharon45]

Logically, the Christian god should be happy with this, but Christian belief dictates that it is because we are all supposed to have free will to choose.

Didn't Satan come from heaven? Didn't stop him from choosing not to follow god. The whole free will thing hinges on faith, but clearly Satan knew about god and choose differently. We should all be given a Damascus moment, and then decide.

Satan in the OT did not actually reject that god, since it is only a servant, and has no free will, but the Christian model is the stupid Devil littered in the NT. I know, it is silly that a god has servants, and so forth, yet almost everything this god does is illogical.

 

[remez]

So some have told me that there is a god in heaven watching over us on planet Earth. They have told me that he is all powerful and all knowing, and what's more; They have told me that he has a master plan that includes every person whom has ever been, is, or will be. Now Presumably this includes the unborn, which these same people insist are of equal worth to you or I in terms of human life.

Now depending on whom you ask, around 15-20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, which god (either through intentionally designing the human body to have this defect, or (through his own Acedia) actively chooses to do nothing to prevent it) has caused.


So does god's plan include infanticide?

Or is the concept that god has any kind of plan just a bullshit story we tell ourselves because it's comforting to think your life has a semblance of divine structure and meaning?

Decisions, decisions...

Obviously God does not exist from your POV.

So where do miscarrariges, abortions, infanticide and birth defects fit into your (plural) godless plan?

 

[bilby]

So some have told me that there is a god in heaven watching over us on planet Earth. They have told me that he is all powerful and all knowing, and what's more; They have told me that he has a master plan that includes every person whom has ever been, is, or will be. Now Presumably this includes the unborn, which these same people insist are of equal worth to you or I in terms of human life.

Now depending on whom you ask, around 15-20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, which god (either through intentionally designing the human body to have this defect, or (through his own Acedia) actively chooses to do nothing to prevent it) has caused.


So does god's plan include infanticide?

Or is the concept that god has any kind of plan just a bullshit story we tell ourselves because it's comforting to think your life has a semblance of divine structure and meaning?

Decisions, decisions...

Obviously God does not exist from your POV.

So where do miscarrariges, abortions, infanticide and birth defects fit into your (plural) godless plan?

Plan?

What plan?

Are you really so steeped in your religious delusion that you cannot grasp that in the absence of a planner there is no plan?

Things happen. Some of them are awful. We can either do something about that, or not.

Humans can have plans. Nature does not.

 

[Learner]

No, wisdom is always free to anyone, but dismissed and rejected by the arrogant.

Perhaps you must mean "wisdom" in the context of "knowledge" surely, which would contradict your previous post:

"Common sense is merely groupthink for good and/or bad. Far from wisdom, which is highly uncommon. So exceptionally rare, that even the Christian god sorely missed out of a serving."

There's plenty of knowledge "which is free to everyone" (or wisdom from someone else) about but you must have mean't not many people having/using wisdom. I would still use "common sense" as many understand today.

Age has nothing to do with it, especially in the case of a fancied god. It is about being truly humble.

I say age in the context of experience. Sure you can include being humble but thats NOT all there is to it ... it is just a part amongst other things. But to be fair ... I do accept the notion of being young and wise to be true also to some extent.

 

[Learner]

Are you sure?
Several apologists have claimed that their skybuddy is not subject to time. He's free from the problem of cause and effect, for example, because He's outside of time. He sees the future because, to him, everything is part of an instant now.

Or so they tell me...

Which means God can't be older than any wise man, or even older than a new-born. Can't age if there's no time.

Best I just stick to: God knows a lot more things.

 

[sharon45]

Perhaps you must mean "wisdom" in the context of "knowledge" surely, which would contradict your previous post:

"Common sense is merely groupthink for good and/or bad. Far from wisdom, which is highly uncommon. So exceptionally rare, that even the Christian god sorely missed out of a serving."

No, and no, it does not.

There's plenty of knowledge "which is free to everyone" (or wisdom from someone else) about but you must have mean't not many people having/using wisdom.

Wisdom is always free to anyone who is humble.

I would still use "common sense" as many understand today.

Again, it is groupthink, like Christians assuming their god loves them. They all think it, but at best, there is only evidence to the contrary from the Bible.

Age has nothing to do with it, especially in the case of a fancied god. It is about being truly humble.

I say age in the context of experience.

That is still a fallacy.

Sure you can include being humble but thats NOT all there is to it

Humble is being honest with yourself and others. Not exactly for Jesus and Christians.

 

[sharon45]

Are you sure?
Several apologists have claimed that their skybuddy is not subject to time. He's free from the problem of cause and effect, for example, because He's outside of time. He sees the future because, to him, everything is part of an instant now.

Or so they tell me...

Which means God can't be older than any wise man, or even older than a new-born. Can't age if there's no time.

Best I just stick to: God knows a lot more things.

God only so-called knows what its handlers feed it.